This came up as me & a friend were coming back from fencing practice Friday night.
We're both large, powerful types who can fence for 1 & 1/2 hours competitively, although we both carry what some would call a few extra pounds.
We were both marvelling at the enormous # of extremely obese (to the point of poor functioning) people, both in out County & elsewhere.
I have witnessed people who could barely walk waddling into McDonald's, while he noted observation of people too fat to push a shopping cart going thru Wal-Mart in a motorized wheelchair with junk food filling the basket. At the grocery store, I see fat mothers & fat kids pushing carts loaded with pop, chips, hot dogs, milk, etc. EVERY TIME I GO. Last night at the drug store, I saw 2 women in a store with maybe 10 people there in total, who weighed at least 300 lbs.

What is going on??

I personally get angry at obese people, when I see them eating/buying garbage, driving around in cars/sitting at drive-thru windows, etc.

I feel that in Canada, where healthcare is taxpayer-paid so people can go to ER's, GP's, & hospitals "free" (Medicare system), these people are acting irresponsibly & harming Medicare for all of us.
There are huge #s of cardiac, diabetes & arthritis-related hospital/doctor visits that are costing the system millions.
And yet even the healthcare practitioners are obese in many cases!! In my drug study, my psychiatrist, nurse & 2 GPs are all at least 50 lbs overweight, & snacking on things like diet pop & chips all the time in their offices.

I'm frustrated. In a way it's "none of my business", but I can't even see a doctor for a health complaint within a reasonable time anymore, because offices are so full of people making themselves sick/fat. Wait times are unbelieveable & ERs are overcrowded, with people waiting hours to see anyone.

Smokers are now treated like pariahs in most buildings in my province- it's illegal to smoke anywhere on the property. There are print & tv ads showing skid-row types smoking to highlight how disgusting it is.

Will the day come when this is how we treat the obese as well?

It's alarming to see the food offered in hospitals btw: after my Dad's 3rd heart attack, I came in the room to see him eating BEEF STROGANOFF!!!!:cry: And the hospitals all have coffee/donut shops in them, as well as convenience stores purveying choc. bars, pop, chips, etc. You cannot get anything healthy there at all.

It's a big problem, and one happening elsewhere, particularly the UK, as well. I recall something posted a while back about the British NHS refusing to treat obese people.

It's tough to determine a solution though. It's heartless and unethical to tell a person who needs a coronary bypass, "sorry, it's your own fault so we're not going to treat you," especially since those people pay as much for healthcare in their taxes as anybody does. That said, universal healthcare shouldn't be a free pass to do whatever you want at the expense of others. Making them pay for it themselves hasn't seemed to work in the US, certainly.

Seems to me that it could help if there were government subsidies that made produce, grains, beans and other healthy foods the most affordable things to buy, and junk food taxes on processed crap. Maybe annual general health exams which, if a person performed well, could result in tax incentives. Something along that principle anyway.

Lack of education.

It's a serious serious problem. The UK is catching up fast, and it's slowly spreading to the rest of Europe.

Nutrition and cookery classes should be compulsory in all classes starting from infant school. Children MUST be taught that what they put in their bodies is VITAL. We are who we eat, so if we eat junk food, then we will end up being junk ourselves.

Fast food outlets should be made illegal for people under 18. I mean it. Those places are as dangerous for kids health as bars and smoking parlours.

The governments are NOT taking this seriously enough. All advertisements for junk foods must be banned from the streets and the television, just as advertisements for alcohol and cigarettes are.

And as Astarte says, junk food and processed crap should be taxed and healthy foods should get subsidised until people start realising what FOOD is.

Fresh fruit and vegetables should be available to everyone at affordable prices.

I agree with Diana, the lack of knowlage about food at least in the USA is staggering.

What is so sad is that were I live to buy beans and rice, whole grains etc is cheaper than junk food but people still buy the junk food.

Food can be as addictive as smokeing and drinking specialy certain foods like those we call comfort foods.
Foods loaded in sugar and fats,in 1999 a study doneshowed the average American ate 120 upwards to 158 pounds of sugar per year, sugar the refined stuff not what is found in our fruits and veggies just the sugar cane product and we wonder why we are so fat.

I see ad's on tv for kids junk food proclaiming 100% of the US RDA for vit C in a package, well IMO if your kids are relying on a bit of candy to get thier vit C then you as a parent have a huge problem.

You are definitely the only person who feels this way. I worked as an EMT for awhile. Our agency was secondary, which meant we pretty much did only bullsh*t nursing home and scheduled calls. I’ve seen so many things that make me want to rip my hair out. For example, a diabetic with kidney failure who missed her dialysis treatment. Went to the ER because she passed out. What do they feed her there? A ham sandwich. One guy at a nursing home was going to the ER because he had high blood sugar for several days. We get there and what are they feeding him? White bread, French fries and meat. The majority of calls were due to preventable chronic diseases like diabetes.

Look at the crap they feed kids in public schools. And now more schools are taking away recess and PE because they’re trying to pass the No Child Left Behind testing. Sometimes I wonder if our whole society has gone completely insane.

Top ten causes of death:
1. Heart disease
2. Cancer
3. Stroke
4. Chronic lower respiratory disease
5. Accidents (unintentional injury)
6. Diabetes mellitus
7. Influenza and pneumonia
8. Alzheimer’s disease
9. Kidney disease
10. Septicemia

Looks like #1, 2, 3, 4, 6, and 9 are partially or completely avoidable to me.
Making them pay for it themselves hasn't seemed to work in the US, certainly.
Actually most people in America either qualify for Medicare or Medicaid, or are under some kind of group insurance plan like an HMO. Most co-pays don’t even begin to reflect the true price of the service they’re getting, like $50 for an ambulance and ER trip, which together could easily cost two grand. There is little financial incentive in the current system to take care of yourself and only see a doctor when you really need it. On the other hand, poor people who actually need healthcare for a good reason are often screwed.

I wonder if anyone will ever make a health insurance program where they take into account your body fat percentage, throw you onto a tread mill to see how much exercise you get and submit you to random blood, urine and stool sampling so they see how you eat. They could combine that with family history (e.g. not penalize someone for having genetically high cholesterol) to come up with your premium. Sounds like it would be worth it to me if your premium was only $25/month for the rest of your life.

i agree - when i worked in an ER, it was my observation that at least half the people in there were there due to poor diet and lifestyle choices, like obesity and smoking.

if there is an upside, it's that the fatter people get, the better i look by comparison :p

I don't think making food illegal will solve anything. Marijuana and harder drugs are illegal and you don't see that stopping people. There should definately be incentive to eat healthy. I'm new to vegetarianism and it's upsetting that eating right is more expensive than grabbing something from the junk food aisle.

There are a few obese people out there with legitimate reasons for being the way they are, but the vast majority have allowed themselves to get that way through poor eating habits and not enough exercise. I'd hate for the people with eating disorders to get categorized with those that simply can't control themselves or that don't eat properly due to misinformation.

So why do you all think this obesity epidemic is being permitted to proliferate?
Is it sheer profiteering by the junk food industry?

Why aren't all of these anti-obesity places like Herbal Magic Weight Loss Centres, Weight Watchers, Curves, etc. making a dent in this horrible trend?

I'm curious about how much personal responsibility for one's own health comes into it as well. Some obese, sick people do seem to recover through their determined efforts. Some make an effort but it doesn't seem to work. But the majority just seem happy to roll around with a Twinkie in their mouth & a Diet Coke in their hand.

Those are the ones I want removed from Medicare. Call it natural selection.

I don't know if it's a matter of being permitted to proliferate. It's more that nobody knows how to stop it... nobody with the power to, anyway. More a matter of human behaviour being very resistant to change, and we all like immediate gratification. The doughnut tastes good. Exercise is hard. Unless there's enough of an immediate reason not to go for a run instead of eating the doughnut, the vast majority of people aren't going to do it.

The government doesn't have enough power to do anything outright. Seriously, if any government in the world said "Ok, people, we're taking away your dietary freedom and outlawing anything that isn't healthy for you" there would be a huge uproar. And you can't kick obese people and smokers out of healthcare either.. they pay for it too.

There has to be some sort of incentive system set up that makes the choice to be active and eat healthy more attractive. Obviously having a healthy body isn't enough for a reward for people. If the government is going to do anything, they have to make it cheap and easy to eat well and expensive and difficult to eat poorly.

I agree with Diana that education programs from childhood about a healthy lifestyle are important, but we also have to give people now the tools to do well so they can teach their kids to do the same. You can't give a kid a cooking class and expect it to do much if he goes home and gorges on candy and chips.

I don't think the government, or anyone else, has any business telling me, or anyone else, how to eat or live. I also don't think they should force me, or anyone else, to pay for someone else's healthcare.

So why do you all think this obesity epidemic is being permitted to proliferate?
Is it sheer profiteering by the junk food industry?



Not only the junk food industry but others profit from this as well. The food stores who sell LOADS of food - much more than is needed for a normal daily consumption. The pharmaceutical companies who gain from selling medicine for those people who get ill through their dietary habits. The slimming industry (as you mentioned). Also, the younger people die, the government does not have to look after them. And what happens to the money people put into retirement funds when they die young? I suspect a lot of it just goes into "someone's" pocket.

And people who eat junk food end up by usually not being very interested in politics and what goes on around them. Junk food dulls the brain and makes one lazy and unaware of what is going on. People who are very very overweight (obese) often are unable to do anything but watch television and that dulls their brain as well. There will be no revolutions from those people.

I believe there is a direct link to the food we eat and the way the brain functions and eating junk food is NOT beneficial to being intellectually aware.

Junk food cannot be made illegal. But it can be exposed for what it is. And not just by a few enlightened authors and film-makers. This should be done on a much much higher level.

It is very scary.

A lot of this, I believe, is generational as well. I'm 20, and only for the past 3 or 4 years have I really become aware of food and what it is and the importance of it. It's one of the main things I look at as a priority and a measure of health. But, when I see kids growing up now, and think of my generation, we grew up (in general) viewing food as "tasting good". If it tastes good, that's the bottom line.

That's what we were and are surrounded by. Food is bought at the grocery store, gas station, fast food places, or resturants. We grew up with tons of sugar, meat, and proccessed food. So, of course, that's what we think of as normal. It's really hard to let go of that when that's the definition of what food is, both in the media, but also in your real life.

And especially since food in so involved in people's lives, as an aid to bonding and the center of most entertainment. It's what you have at parties, dinner parties, brunches, sporting events, the movies, ect. We associate different foods with different events, traditions, memories, ect. That's why I think it's sooooo hard to change the momentum of the food industry, because a lot of people are unaware of what real food is by now, and the food industry is making too much $$$ to care about changing that.

In the end, I think it's money that motivates what we're seeing. Money, power and greed. Who's the politician or government that's going to go against the food industry? People want money and power, and the more ignorant and passive the people are, the better.

I feel that in Canada, where healthcare is taxpayer-paid so people can go to ER's, GP's, & hospitals "free" (Medicare system), these people are acting irresponsibly & harming Medicare for all of us.
There are huge #s of cardiac, diabetes & arthritis-related hospital/doctor visits that are costing the system millions.


But, as with smoking, these people die earlier which mitigates or reverses the burden that you think you are perceiving.

I think it's naive to blame the food industry and their greed for obesity & sedentary lifestyles. Our social structure has a lot to do with it as well: immediate gratification, wanting to have food prepared for us in a couple of minutes and have it taste good, not wanting to spend over an hour a night preparing dinner, wanting to pay as little as possible for as much as possible, etc...

Fast food outlets should be made illegal for people under 18. I mean it. Those places are as dangerous for kids health as bars and smoking parlours.

How about all-you-can-eat buffets? Pizza Hut? Last time I went to a buffet (Sweet Tomatoes), there were a lot of people there who were pushing 300 pounds, or over it. Why limit it to fast food?

Fresh fruit and vegetables should be available to everyone at affordable prices.

Aren't they already? You can get a whole bunch of celery for under a buck, usually (and $2 if organic). That's at least a couple of snacks and cheaper than a bag of potato chips. You can get 2 organic apples for $1.89. etc. How much cheaper do you want it?

OregonAmy: A few weeks ago, some people were posting that vegetables were more expensive in their town than junk-food. I don't remember which areas they were talking about or probably they didn't say. But they were complaining that finding fresh food at a reasonable price was difficult.

Why limit it to fast-food? Well, it's because of the symbol behind it. What fast-food represents. You cannot fight on all fronts at the same time. Fast-food is the epitome of bad eating.

Some veggies might be cheaper than fast food but not in my area but maybe in yours.
I can buy beans and rice pretty cheap but you know when you pay 5$ for a tiny thing of berries or 1.00 per bell pepper and you do not find much other than potatos and oranges for an affordable price in the produce section many of the people on a tighter budget or just downright poor can not afford to eat well.
A bag of white flour is like 78 cents but a bag of whole grain is 3$.
That is just wrong on so many levels.
Mac and cheese and ramen noodles are about 13 cents per and they are nightmares when it comes to nutrients verces fat and carbs but that is what people eat large scale of here as well as white tortilla's which you can get 20 or so for buck.
Yet the whole wheat kind is 4$ for a pack of 8.
So in some parts of the world it is very costly to eat healthy and very cheap to eat bad.

It is a very sad thing that a twinky costs les than an apple but thats how it is.

Twinkies last along time on the shelf, and are easy to ship and store. Apples aren't.

Think that explains part of why they are cheaper in some places?
(BTW, in my local convenince store, Twinkies are $1.19 for a twin pack, but an apple is $0.79. I can snack cheaper on fruit when I am traveling than on name brand junk food.)

Twinkies last along time on the shelf, and are easy to ship and store. Apples aren't.

Think that explains part of why they are cheaper in some places?
(BTW, in my local convenince store, Twinkies are $1.19 for a twin pack, but an apple is $0.79. I can snack cheaper on fruit when I am traveling than on name brand junk food.)

I think you are right course 99 cents will buy you a box of 8?? twinkies down here :lol:
Not sure on how many in the package I think 8 or 10.

If you are in the US, $0.99 does not buy a box of Twinkies in any retail store.
You must be discussing the generic snack food cakes, not Hostess.

I bought a fennel bulb and two leeks yesterday and it came to $6. If I ate them all at once, that'd be one meal--I'm using them as a side dish for two. There are some healthy foods that aren't as expensive as others (apples, bananas and broccoli come to mind) and it's usually cheaper if you buy in season, but it also depends where you live.

It's also the convenience factor. Even if it isn't cheaper for one person to buy produce, it's certainly way easier to chow on a microwave dinner than spending an hour and a half cooking a pot of brown rice, chopping/cooking veggies, etc. Putting pressure on companies to provide healthier convenience food would be good, but largely people don't seem to care because they don't have any pressing need to care.

If you are in the US, $0.99 does not buy a box of Twinkies in any retail store.
You must be discussing the generic snack food cakes, not Hostess.
retail no, military base yes :| no idea what they cost elseware since you do not see them floating about in Sun Harvest

i'm not claiming to know very much about this in any sort of coherant way, and before anyone bashes me, (please don't bash me or i'll cry!) i am aware i could be very very wrong (its all a bit beyond my understanding) but don't a lot of 1st world governments subsidise (or tax?) their own sugar companies and subsidise their corn producers(or something- help me out here- i'm not good on economics or complex government things), -and this has a relationship to the use of high fructose corn syrup in lots of products, which is a worse product than sugar even? (is it??)

similarly don't they subsidise dairy and beef farmers and use advertising to encourage people to buy meat and dairy, and produce the food pyramids in collaberation with them? (i hate those 'want milk' commercials we get here in canada, and definately would distrust any food pyramid sponsored by any specific food producer, lol, i wonder what the 'nestle' sponsored food pryamid might look like, for example?).

doesn't all this supportign these groups encourage the production of, and eating and drinking of, things that aren't healthy for people to be eating and drinking, and therefore mean these governments are paying out to enable and support the production of foodstuffs that invariably contribute the the masses of people who are overweight and diabetic and prediabetic and suffering from high colesterol, and therefore putting a huge strain on the medical system?

if i understand this right, (which i probably don't!- please again no bashing me!- especially you tame, lol) this strikes me as quite a stupid thing to be doing- about as smart as subsidising tobbacco producers, and advertising their products for them, would be.

i know that the government and big buisnesses have their hands in each others pockets, but it strikes me as being a little smarter for them to be say, subsidising the tofu veggiedog companies, and the stevia companies, and putting tofudogs in the hotdogs (like anyone would notice), and stevia (yey, stevia!!!) in coke, as aposed to cow fat and high fructose corn syrup.
they use stevia in diet coke in japan, and bl00dy poison our sugar free soft drinks with crud like splenda and aspartamane other assorted cr@p.

Putting pressure on companies to provide healthier convenience food would be good, but largely people don't seem to care because they don't have any pressing need to care.

Well I suspect it's also difficult and expensive to do. Once you start processing food, it loses flavor - hence the fat, salt, sugar, and flavorings in processed foods to actually make them taste like something. And the prepared foods that are more natural and healthier are not cheap... I would presume this is because the initial ingredients are of a higher quality, but because it's also more difficult to provide processed food that is healthy AND tastes good...

I don't think the government, or anyone else, has any business telling me, or anyone else, how to eat or live. I also don't think they should force me, or anyone else, to pay for someone else's healthcare.


that's all well and good until you get a debilitating disease like cancer or rheumatoid arthritis, not amenable to lifestyle changes, which costs you thousands and thousands of dollars per year, and you can't afford good enough insurance. i know it sucks paying for someone else's bad choices, but it's kinda hard to draw the line.