So I just decided to become a vegetarian yesterday, for many reason, but Im not really sure how to do it. I know to avoid meats like chicken, turkey, beef, pork, but what about fish, do vegetarians eat fish. Well actually my question is, do fish suffer as well. I really became a vegetarian because of the cruelty to animals involved in making meat, but what about fish. Im a huge sushi eater and planned to have that be my treat to myself instead of eating meat (which i never really ate in the first place). Same with milk, should I drink milk, or soy milk instead. I guess I want to know the different levels and what they believe in. I tried looking on the internet but there are so many different definitions of everything I just figured I would take it straight from the horses mouth or so to speak. I want to be completely free of any animal cruelty whatsoever, no testing, torturing, etc. Is taking milk from a cow torturous? Sorry so many questions, I want to do this right.

:bobo: K

You'll get a million different, conflicting answers.

Vegetarians do not eat fish. Vegetarians can consume dairy and eggs. If you decide you're ethically opposed to either you can obviously give them up.

If you're wanting to go vegetarian for ethical reasons it doesn't make sense that you would want to "treat" yourself to something that involves death. :confused:

It's all a learning process. It's great that you're taking the first steps.

Ok that clears up a lot of things. As far as the fish, that was my biggest question so Im glad you could clear that up for me. I didnt even think of that as being the same thing, stupid me. Its completely true though. Ok, so no meat of any version, stick to tofu and tempeh, soy nuts and such. DO you know what types of nuts and such have the most protein and iron to make up for the lack of intake. I've been having muffins, avocado salads, juice ( switching to V8 because of the artificial acids and such) finishing my milk ( thinking of moving to soymilk because I love how it tastes), etc. I know from my past that I have to find something that seems like a treat so when I have a craving I can go to that treat and satisfy my urges. Any suggestions? Sorry to bounce all of this off of everyone I just want to get a head start before meeting with my nutritionist. Thanx again.

K :bobo:

Ok that clears up a lot of things. As far as the fish, that was my biggest question so Im glad you could clear that up for me. I didnt even think of that as being the same thing, stupid me. Its completely true though. Ok, so no meat of any version, stick to tofu and tempeh, soy nuts and such. DO you know what types of nuts and such have the most protein and iron to make up for the lack of intake. I've been having muffins, avocado salads, juice ( switching to V8 because of the artificial acids and such) finishing my milk ( thinking of moving to soymilk because I love how it tastes), etc. I know from my past that I have to find something that seems like a treat so when I have a craving I can go to that treat and satisfy my urges. Any suggestions? Sorry to bounce all of this off of everyone I just want to get a head start before meeting with my nutritionist. Thanx again.

K :bobo:

Unless you never eat anything soy or nuts or the like, I don't think you'll have to worry about a protein issue. Maybe B12 if you give up dairy and eggs too. You can take a supplement for that.
I don't understand the 'treat' thing? Do you mean a meat treat? Dairy? If you have a meat craving, there are lots of substitutes. I've even seen a recipe for a sushi substitute I'm pretty sure. Someone else maybe able to help better with that. There are soy 'dairy' products. Personally I think they're all gross but since you already like soy milk maybe you'd like them too.
Just think of how much it's not a treat for an animal to die for your pleasure and it should make the craving die down a bit. After a while you develop tastes for new flavors and you stop craving the old stuff. You just have to fight the urge to give in at first. The more you eat it, the more you'll want it.
Mary

It's great that you are taking this step. If you are a vegetarian because you don't want to cause suffering or death, then fish are a definate nono. The only thing that really determines what you consume is your own conscience. Some people eat dairy and eggs, (lacto-ovo), but others, after looking into the processes involved find that they don't want to be involved in it. I started off lacto-ovo, but I'm hoping (slowly) to make the transition to full blown veganism. Its difficult at the moment, given current living conditions.

As a treat? I don't know what to recommend. It depends on what kind of cravings you are talking about. Every so often I treat myself to some interesting fruit (like a mango :drool: ), but there are certain things that I buy all the time, such as decent bread, which I also get cravings for. I consider that a staple though.

You might want to look out some good recipie books - I'd recommend this one

http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/0600609154/qid=1147540682/sr=8-11/ref=sr_8_xs_ap_i11_xgl/202-2593839-3685455

I hope that helps - pm me if you want any help. :)

Ok that clears up a lot of things. As far as the fish, that was my biggest question so Im glad you could clear that up for me. I didnt even think of that as being the same thing, stupid me. Its completely true though. Ok, so no meat of any version, stick to tofu and tempeh, soy nuts and such. DO you know what types of nuts and such have the most protein and iron to make up for the lack of intake. I've been having muffins, avocado salads, juice ( switching to V8 because of the artificial acids and such) finishing my milk ( thinking of moving to soymilk because I love how it tastes), etc. I know from my past that I have to find something that seems like a treat so when I have a craving I can go to that treat and satisfy my urges. Any suggestions? Sorry to bounce all of this off of everyone I just want to get a head start before meeting with my nutritionist. Thanx again.

K :bobo:


Congrats on your decision to go veggie. It really sounds like you are on the right track. Don't worry too much about protein - focusing on one particular nutrient is not really necessary. Instead, focus on your diet as a whole, and try to make it balanced. Follow a vegetarian food guide if you find it helps you. Include a variety of nuts, seeds, beans, etc in your diet. Black beans, chick peas (aka garbanzo beans), kidney beans, lentils, almonds, walnuts, etc etc are all good sources of protein.

Watch out for juices like V8, as they contain a LOT of sodium. Sodium may cause you to lose calcium, and that is not a good thing.

From an ethical standpoint, soy milk is much more ethical than cow's milk. If you already like the taste, I suggest you switch.. at least for the fluid milk part. Everything helps. Cows are often kept in miserable conditions. They have mastitis (an infection in the udders - ask any woman who has had it from breastfeeding and they can tell you how painful it is). The cows are continuously bred so that they can produce milk. Male calves (essentially useless to the dairy industry) become veal.

Another thing you may want to consider is whether or not you are comfortable with eating eggs. http://www.wegmanscruelty.com/ is a video you may want to watch. Keep in mind that "organic", "free range", "free run" etc eggs may not come from hens in much better conditions.

Good luck!

...focusing on one particular nutrient is not really necessary. Instead, focus on your diet as a whole, and try to make it balanced. Follow a vegetarian food guide if you find it helps you. Include a variety of nuts, seeds, beans, etc in your diet.
I heartily agree with fyvel and think this right here is possibly the best advice you could get. People will tell you many different things about what to avoid, what to include, and so on, and it will inevitably become confusing. Try not to get bogged down in all the different advice you'll hear about individual foods, and focus instead on eating a variety of foods with many colors, tastes and textures. There is a whole world of wonderful food just waiting to be discovered, so try one or two new foods every week or so.

Since you want to know about eating fish and you are questioning the ethical aspect of it, you should know that aside from any debate about whether fish suffer, there are several other good reasons not to eat fish or seafood of any kind, including the amount of harmful pollutants that tend to accumulate in their tissues, and the harm that our appetite for seafood is doing to the world's oceans. In that vein, I highly recommend a book called The Saltwater Wilderness by Glenn Vanstrum. It's not about vegetarianism or not eating fish per se, but it will impress on you how wonderful, worthy of respect, and important to our own well-being the world's oceans are, and how critical it is that we stop doing our best to destroy them. It's an excellent book.

I also highly recommend reading The China Study by T. Colin Campbell. Actually, reading everything you can get your hands on is probably the second best thing you can do, right behind eating a variety of different foods.


Try this link for some tips on protein, iron, meal planning, and more:
Tip of the Day Thread (http://www.veggieboards.com/boards/showthread.php?t=50249)

I just looked at some websites about fish brutalilty. I cant believe what they do, I thought that it wasnt as bad but in most cases it is worse. I read that fish can be awake for 15 minutes of excrusiating pain until they die. I can believe that, I guess because they dont scream its not as obvious. Woww.....


:bobo: K

hey, i think it's great that you are thinking about all of this stuff and looking into changing how you eat in order to spare animals from suffering!

it's terrific that you already love soymilk. it sounds like you may very well find yourself uncomfortable with continuing to eat dairy proucts and eggs, as well as meat, when you look into the way that dairy cows (and veal calves, their babies) and egg-laying hens (and their male counterparts) are treated and slaughtered in the name of profits like other "food animals". The good news is that there are a ton of delicious animal-free foods out there to try and have fun experimenting with, from dairy-free ice creams to veggie burgers to vegetable sushi, and much more.

there is a lot of information out there to sort through, but here are two i think might be a good start to help you.

www.vivausa.org
(Their "Vegan Basics" guide, in print and online is sooooo helpful and wonderful. Info on great foods, recipes, resources, etc).

http://www.tryveg.com
(Good info on the website, and you can request that they send you a free vegetarian starter kit, too.)

Also, if you can stomach it www.meetyourmeat.com has a video with footage of animals in farms and slaughterhouses. It's hard to watch, but if you feel you want to really see what happens and/or give yourself a strong motivational "kick in the &$$", download it. ;p

Awesome advice, thank you for all of it. Ok Im going to go out now and buy some books. I hate the taste of eggs, so that wont be a problem, and yeah im gonna stick with soymilk. I also started a fitday account to keep track of how much I am eating in all the categories. So far like 90 percent carbs but hey.....ill work on that. Veg sushi sounds great.....love avocado rolls so I can get that. I watched the meetyourmeat videos and then I showed them to my sister and my husband. My little sister wants to be a vegetarian as well. You all are so supportive its awazing. One more question ( i think ), are there any sneaky foods i wouldnt suspect being anti animal? special ingredients i should watch out for or brands to avoid? Thanx

:bobo: K

Awesome advice, thank you for all of it. Ok Im going to go out now and buy some books. I hate the taste of eggs, so that wont be a problem, and yeah im gonna stick with soymilk. I also started a fitday account to keep track of how much I am eating in all the categories. So far like 90 percent carbs but hey.....ill work on that. Veg sushi sounds great.....love avocado rolls so I can get that. I watched the meetyourmeat videos and then I showed them to my sister and my husband. My little sister wants to be a vegetarian as well. You all are so supportive its awazing. One more question ( i think ), are there any sneaky foods i wouldnt suspect being anti animal? special ingredients i should watch out for or brands to avoid? Thanx

:bobo: K


There are a LOT of foods/ingredients out there that you wouldn't suspect. Rather than trying to learn them all right away, which can be overwhelming, just work on learning them slowly. Two major ones are gelatin (made from skin/hooves/cartilage), and whey (milk product). The easiest way to go about this is to just read your ingredient labels - when you see something that you don't know what it is, look it up. There are lists such as this one (http://www.peta.org/MC/factsheet_display.asp?ID=72),. Or what I do is to go to Google and type in the ingredient I am wondering about and then "vegan". For example, for whey I would type:

whey vegan

That usually gives me sites that tell me whether or not that product is vegan.

hi there, i am a new vegan too and while researching into health and nutrition issues of becoming one i stumbled across a really good web site called GoVeg.com - its a real eye opener into the cruelty involved in all aspects of farming, including dairy. Check it out for yourself and i can guarantee you'll never want to eat another egg, fish or glass of milk!! (ps soya milk tastes good and has many health benefits too- good luck!
oh and a quick question to any other vegans- have you tried any "faux cheeses" that dont taste disgusting?!

Congrats to you for going veg! It might be easiest to take it in transition - give up all meat at first, and then later, try to give up either eggs or dairy if you want to (especially if you don't know much about nutrition - there is nothing worse than a sickly, malnourished vegan.) I usually encourage people to go vegetarian first, and then start to limit dairy and eggs. Read everything you can about vegetarian nutrition, and all the wonderful benefits of a vegetarian diet.

A couple notes: Do NOT substitute cheese for meat for all of your cooking! Someone here once coined the term "cheesy-carbotarian" and I find that hilarious, because that is what a lot of us become! If you are becoming veg because of mistreatment of animals, don't all of a sudden mistreat yourself by only putting horrible fats and excessive carbs into your body. Feel free to ask questions here, you'll find a plethora of information about how to live a healthy vegetarian life! :-) Welcome!!

So I went out to eat last night for the first time since going veg, and it was surprisingly easy to choose from the menu. I had french onion soup with a mushroom, sundried tomato and garlic pasta dinner. I drank lots of water and had no problem feeling full from all of it. It felt great. I also told my family, they didnt want to hear the disgusting details about what converted me, but they were curius about my decision and surprisingly supportive as well. :) . The hardest part was telling them what meals were veg so my grandma would know what to have available when I came over for dinner. But when they to thinking about it, they were excited for me. They said they didnt realize how much I could really eat. That was awesome because it really helped solidify my decision. ( I am very faith driven and i saw it as a thumbs up from God ). So here we go, so far no cravings whatsoever. I think thats because of how much I already ate that was veg anyway. My usual breakfast didnt change ( english muffins and juice ), lunch did but fruit and salad replaced that, I love grilled cheese too. I have crackers and veg spread as a snack, pasta with veg for dinner, fruit salad, etc. I think for now I am going to be i think what is called lacto-ovo something like that. Whichever is the one where you still can have cheese and butter. I wont have eggs because I dont like them, and I like soymilk better than regular milk so ill be switching there. I only have cheese when its cooked but Ill see how much I can get away from that, and I dont have butter often, but I can change to veg butter too, I have had it before and i didnt think it was that bad. Im excited because I feel so much better already. It doesnt feel like a diet ( which I never do well on) because it isnt one, its just a change of diet. I dont know why I never did this before. The only one thing I can say is thank god for laxatives, hehe I hope my body gets used to all the carbs soon. Does anyone else have this problem? How did you alleviate the situation? Ok thats all for now.......thanx again.

:bobo: K

Glad to hear it's going well :D

Just beware of soups in restaurants- they are often made with animal broths.

As for butter, see if you can find "Earth Balance" - it is vegan and quite similar to butter, I think.

Congrats on going veg!

FYI, French onion soup is usually made with beef stock. Animal stocks in soups and other restaurant dishes are definitely one of the big "hidden" animal ingredients to be aware of. I always ask.

I second Fyvel's recommendation for Earth Balance.

Everyone's given you some great links. There are also tons of great recipes on this site!

Oh, and about carbs--it sounds like you're eating a lot of refined carbs (white bread, pasta, rice etc.) which might be why you're needing to take laxatives. You're not getting enough fiber in your diet. Try to make the switch to whole grain breads and pasta, brown rice, oatmeal, other whole grain cereals, etc. Eat plenty of veggies, fruits and drink lots of water. Having a high fiber diet will not only prevent you from needing a laxative, it's also higher in nutrition and helps prevent heart disease and cancer.

Good luck!

wow....dint even think of that.....just bought EB buttery spread. well see how that goes....just spent like 250 on new stuff to eat.....exciement continues

:bobo: K

The only one thing I can say is thank god for laxatives, hehe I hope my body gets used to all the carbs soon. Does anyone else have this problem? How did you alleviate the situation?
If you're having a problem with constipation, that should end very soon. From everything I've read and heard, vegetarians rarely have a problem with that. In fact, I had a friend who spent most of her adult life suffering from terrible constipation connected with another medical problem, and within a month or so of switching to a mostly veg diet, she said her bowel problems had cleared right up. Just give your gut a couple of weeks to adjust to eating more fiber. You might continue to have slight upset and gas a little while longer, but that should go away in anywhere from a couple weeks to a few months.

OH....OK. Yeah i went and bought whole wheat bread, kashi cereal and lots of fruits and veggies...ive had a history of stomach problems so im sure like you said, this will help. I cant wait to meet with my nutritionist and get a good scheduled diet going. I already feel better tonight from eating more veggies and things today. HAPPY MOTHER'S DAY MOMS.

:bobo: K

Youv'e gotten a lot of great advice so far. I can't really add too much more, but if you want an awesome vegan treat (I'm not sure if you're doing dairy or not), try the soy delicious "purely decadent" line. They come in pints and are usually near ben & jerry's. They have the same amount of fat as regular ice cream, so they're definitely a treat, but they are sooooo good! You can also get a dollar off coupon sent to you if you go to their site.

Wow, I sound like a commercial. oops

I'm glad to hear you're considering veganism. :)

http://www.eatright.org/cps/rde/xchg/ada/hs.xsl/advocacy_933_ENU_HTML.htm

This should help you eat a balanced vegan diet. Generally, vegans have five food groups, fruits, vegetables, grains, legumes (beans, lentils, etc) and nuts. Your diet sounds a bit on the light side as far as legumes go. Also try to eat most of your grains whole (there are even whole wheat English muffins). The Kashi breakfast cereal is a good start. There's also whole wheat bread, whole wheat pasta, oat meal, brown rice and a variety of other whole grains out there. If you are a healthy weight right now don't shy away from healthy fats. Try to consume more olive oil and canola oil and less peanut and corn oil and of course trans fats/hydrogenated fats. Also be sure to work in a regular source of omea-3s and B12. Protein isn't an issue if you have a half-way decent diet.

Oh, and there is such thing as veggie sushi. Avacado is the bestest.

Good luck!

Youv'e gotten a lot of great advice so far. I can't really add too much more, but if you want an awesome vegan treat (I'm not sure if you're doing dairy or not), try the soy delicious "purely decadent" line. They come in pints and are usually near ben & jerry's. They have the same amount of fat as regular ice cream, so they're definitely a treat, but they are sooooo good! You can also get a dollar off coupon sent to you if you go to their site.

Wow, I sound like a commercial. oops


I second this :hungry:

Wow that site is amazing....so much info. Umm....any recommendations on where to buy vegan free products, do any deparment stores sell them. Same with hair products and such. I am researching as much as I can.

:bobo: K

i am interested in the cosmetics options, also. I bought all natural 100% animal ingredient free sugar scrub and let me tell you it leaves my skin sooooo soft! I don't even need my lotions anymore (I live in the desert so y skin is ALWAYS dry) Anyway I got one at Trader Joes and one at Whole Foods.

I am interested in finding other products, shampoo, conditioner, shaving cream, etc...I would rather not order online though.

I'd recommend searching online - just type in vegan cosmetics to Google or a search engine. Then you can look at your options, and find out where you can get them in the real world.

Not living in the states I don't really know what you have access to.

Good luck!