I've been reading the book "Becoming Vegan". Great book, the most informative I have read thus far about plant based nutrition. One thing bothers me though. It says you MUST use suppliments to get enough vitamin B12 with a veggie diet. Part of the pull for me to move to a veggie diet is it seemed to be natural. If it is natural for people to have a plant only diet why can't we get a vitamin that is so crucial for our health? This B12 thing is bugging me, I want to have a balanced veggie diet without suppliments.

Keep in mind B12 is neither plant nor animal. You can't get it from your grocery store produce because of pesticides and depleted soil. You don't HAVE to take a pill. It is Added to Silk soymilk, Red Star Nutritional Yeast and many other foods and drinks.

Lots of food in general is supplemented. In many areas people(omnivores) need vitamin D supplements(put into milk, cereal, ect) so that they don't get rickets.

Well sorry to burst your bubble, but vegetarianism is not the perfect "natural" diet you might have thought it to be. There are risks, and there are things you need to watch out for, and b12 is one of those things.

I knew this was going to be about "natural". Why is a "natural" diet important for you? What is going to happen if you don't live "naturally"? Why is it "natural" to type on a computer and eat processed food but not take a supplement?

etc.

Vegetarianism is plenty "natural".

If this is once upon a time ago when we were living off the earth instead of grocery stores, you'd be getting your B12 from your water supply among other things. But now your water is so filtered that there's not really anything in it.

I knew this was going to be about "natural". Why is a "natural" diet important for you? What is going to happen if you don't live "naturally"? Why is it "natural" to type on a computer and eat processed food but not take a supplement?

Very good point.

In older times mankind didn't have to bother about vitamin B12 because of the low hygienic level. Water was taken out of the well or stream. Plant would be eaten with microorganisms on them.
The disadvantages of low hygienic levels were diseases like typhoid fever, however.

i got another 'natural source' of b12 for you -

http://www.vegporn.com/article/b12.html

:) yum

i got another 'natural source' of b12 for you -



:) yum


hehehe...awesome! I knew that had to be good for something...:love: :D :naughty:

I guess I should not have used the "natural" word. Basically I try and get as much nutrition from my food as possible without using suppliments. Thanks for the responses so far, very interesting stuff on B12.

In older times mankind didn't have to bother about vitamin B12 because of the low hygienic level. Water was taken out of the well or stream. Plant would be eaten with microorganisms on them.
The disadvantages of low hygienic levels were diseases like typhoid fever, however.

You're exactly right!

I've heard that when restaurants make, for example, tempeh, but don't clean off the machinery very often, that's a very good source of B12. Like someone else said, it's not something that comes from plants or animals. It's a bacteria, and the only reason that meat eaters are able to get B12 more than veg*ns is because, well...think about what they're eating. I can't think about a better home for bacteria than a decaying corpse.

I've also heard that you can get your B12 by simply not washing the dirt off of your fruits and veggies. Or...by other means...like VeganTofu*ker's method! :lick: :lol:

Personally, I'd rather go with one of those than get it from rotting flesh. :)

usable B12 in sufficient amounts only occurs naturally in animal foods, unfortunately. This includes milk and eggs. There's some debate about the subject, but that seems to be the consensus.

The good news is that you don't need very much of it and (assuming you have no absorption problems with it--these are not uncommon) you should easily be able to get your RDA with fortified foods.

You probably don't want to try to get your B12 from unwashed plant foods. The plant may have been grown in manure (potentially harmful bacteria there), sprayed with pesticides, or any other such thing that you probably don't want to ingest.

Misconception: The vegan diet is natural. It's not. It's possible, but not natural. We need B12 supplementation and may need other supplementation depending on how much sun we get, etc.

You do not need to take B12 supplements. It is not necessary. There is no other living creature on this planet that takes B12 supplments.

The B12 hype was developed to put fear in humans so as to support the industries who stand to profit.

You do not need to take B12 supplements. It is not necessary. There is no other living creature on this planet that takes B12 supplments.


What do other living creatures have to do with human beings? Each living creature has its own needs according to their own particular make-up. (One reason why animal experimentation for human medical research is so bloody useless.)

I would not take the risk of not taking B12 supplements. A lack of B12 only shows up years later, and by then it is often too late.

I know someone with B12 deficiency. It is not pretty. Not pretty at all.

What do other living creatures have to do with human beings? Each living creature has its own needs according to their own particular make-up. (One reason why animal experimentation for human medical research is so bloody useless.)

I would not take the risk of not taking B12 supplements. A lack of B12 only shows up years later, and by then it is often too late.

I know someone with B12 deficiency. It is not pretty. Not pretty at all.

Diana, I can respect your view. Good luck.

farm animals are given supplements of various kinds in their feed, almost without exception. modern soils are often so depleted that many creatures can't get optimum nutrition. so even if you're eating farmed animals for your nutrients, you're eating the results of supplementation.

as others have said, at a point in human past, it was likely easier for humans to get B-12 naturally, but due to modern hygiene and agriculture, this may not be the case now.

You do not need to take B12 supplements. Please ignore this dangerious piece of "advice", wasatchrunner. B12 is as vital as air itself and like air, it's something you certainly do NOT want to be deficient in.

Lothar hit is exactly on the head as to why this particular nutrient needs supplemented.

<<< would MUCH rather supplement B12 in a high hygenic enviroment than to have naturally occuring B12 in a low hygenic enviroment (black plague, anyone? :sweat: ).

yea.... you could ignore samwilson, or you could ignore all the legitimage research done on vitamin b12 deficiencies, whether nutritional or gastrointestinal in origin.

the word VITAMIN means something the body cannot endogenously produce from other nutrients, and needs to be eaten from somewhere. b12 is necessary for some reactions, and without it, you can get anemia and irreversible spinal cord/peripheral nerve damage. good luck with that.

(and btw - i wouldn't worry too much about black death/bubonic plague: it's transmitted by rat fleas, mostly in the southwest these days. very rare :) )

I wonder why this conspiracy theory that B12 problems are merely an invention motivated by profit is presented just for B12 - for which some vegans have a personal interest in showing that it's not needed and that veganism is therefore "natural" -and not other vitamins, like A or D or whatever, or other nutrients like iron or calcium. It's an odd coincidence.

http://ods.od.nih.gov/factsheets/VitaminB12_pf.asp has good info about B12...

B12 is essential. Sorry, unless you want to suffer pretty horrific neurological problems, please make sure you have a source of this in your diet. People have mentioned sources here already.

As far as I know, most people who have B12 deficiencies are not vegetarian, but simply have a problem with B12 absorption in the body. Our ability to absorb it decreases with age, too, as far as I've heard.

I don't understand the "natural" thing either. I took a multivitamin daily before I was a vegetarian, and as a vegetarian, continue to do the same. It's just a good idea. I certainly find my diet a lot more natural since becoming vegetarian - no growth hormones, antibiotics, PCBs or heavy metals in my food from animals any more. That's good enough reason if you ask me.

wasatchrunner, I suggest you do your own research and you will find the truth.

The truth is that B12 was discovered during the 1930's by guess who?
a group of researchers who worked for a pharmaceutical company

They were actually trying to find a way to treat pernicious anemia, which is caused by an inability to absorb vitamin B12 that is found in guess what?
meat, milk and dairy products, and eggs

Taking B12 supplements because you have pernicious anemia is like eating ground up bones because you are calcium deficient. You need to treat the underlying problem.

The solution is a well balanced diet of fresh fruits and vegetables. It is not to take B12 supplements.

You can choose to blindly follow the herd if you want to on this B12 issue, but I will choose truth.

I wonder why this conspiracy theory that B12 problems are merely an invention motivated by profit is presented just for B12 - for which some vegans have a personal interest in showing that it's not needed and that veganism is therefore "natural" -and not other vitamins, like A or D or whatever, or other nutrients like iron or calcium. It's an odd coincidence.
Imo, the theory exists right now because it's very difficult to measure B12 and to account for its funtion in the body. We don't have a solid understanding of B12 like we do with A. This lack of understanding is amo for the conspracy theorist. Check out rawfoodtalk.com...lots of interesting talk about B12 over there.

On a side note, if any of us lived on a "natural-living off the local land" diet we would become nutrient deficient in general.