Ok just sorta a venting post I'm afraid.

I recomended they go to a breed rescue first and they have told me that rescues cost more then going to a breeder (if that's true, it's a real shame).
I tried to explain my belief that nobody should breed a dog unless there's none of that kind out there needing a home, in this case golden retrivers.

Then they insist on having a puppy. Rescues hardly ever have puppies which does seems to be true.

Furthermore, they gave me the miracle of birth thing. Their children are at the right age for witnessing and experiencing a litter of puppies.
Now I'm not anti breeder, but the final reason they gave me for breeding is in my view not a good enough reason to breed.

I totally agree with you that they should check shelters first but, if it's anything like New Zealand, there may not be any Golden Retreivers to be had anywhere but from breeders so if they want another one the choices could be breed or buy from a breeder. Also I have to admit that it was really cool when our Golden retriever got to meet up with her Mother and Sister (who the breeders had kept) when she was older.

My warning though, to any breeder, would be this - make sure the dog doesn't have any congenital diseases, or inheritable problems. Our dog got cancer of the very same type, in the very same place, on the very same leg that her Mother died from.

Furthermore, they gave me the miracle of birth thing. Their children are at the right age for witnessing and experiencing a litter of puppies.
Now I'm not anti breeder, but the final reason they gave me for breeding is in my view not a good enough reason to breed.

Ugh. What a lame excuse. The person's kids can just watch a video of some animals breeding.
Maybe you should tell her that her kids will be heartbroken to give the puppies away, and too attached to them.

Tell her to search on www.petfinder.com

tell her the kids might then learn from watching the "miracle of death" too. she may be able to make an appointment at a shelter to see healthy, adoptable, and even young animals (even golden retrievers) getting killed because no one wants them. 6-8 million animals are killed in US shelters each year because no one wants them (and those are the ones who were lucky enough to even be taken into shelters).

It's a selfish choice to buy from breeders, no question. She's teaching her kids selfishness along with the "miracle of life" and I wouldn't spare her that reality. They can go into a neonatal unit, watch videos of puppies being born, any number of things to see babies if they're so desperate for it.

There are dedicated animal charities in the UK that rehome pedigree animals and particular breeds, perhaps there are some like that where you are?
It may be an alternative the person is willing to consider - they get the breed of dog (and a pedigree) that they want, without supporting breeders.
As for wanting a puppy.... can't help ya there :( good luck!

try
http://www.grca-nrc.org/
They have links to their local rescue centres (I'm presuming you're in the US)

I've never heard of rescues charging more than breeders. Unless she's looking into getting one from a backyard breeder or something. Sounds like she probably doesn't care.

I've never heard of rescues charging more than breeders. Unless she's looking into getting one from a backyard breeder or something. Sounds like she probably doesn't care.
Some do, I ran across this problem when looking for a second Aussie, some shelters wanted well over 250$ for an adult rescue dog, it was just crazy!
Out in the hill country you can get working stock Aussie ( these are bred for herding ability not looks)for about 75$ to 100$ because they are so common out on ranch lands.
I finaly found one at a small shelter though that only asked donations to adopt.

As for the OP, I understand wanting to get a certain breed after all thier temperment is for the most part known and how to handle them etc, but really city pounds get in many many pure bred animals each year and some are puppies!
Our local no kill shelters are teaming with puppies right now most are mix breeds but there are a few pure breds and lots of pure bred adults.

Has your friend looked at no kill shelters or even tried posting an add looking for a puppy needing a home at someplace like craigslist.com?

All ethical considerations aside, an older mutt is a better choice, IMO.
Personally, I can't imagine why anyone would want a puppy (and all the work involved!!! OMG the mess, the hassle) when a well-trained, near-adult dog is available. (In general) WYSIWYG with a rescue animal, many of whom are already trained. An example:
Our friends, who wanted a purebred German shepherd puppy, researched many breeders and pedigrees, did all their homework, had already raised a puppy (their Nova Scotia ducktaller was aged at the time) and KNEW what they wanted and expected to get. Were they ever surprised when their "medium sized" shepherd turned out to be HUGE, and sadly, at only two years old, has already had one operation to repair congenital hip/leg defects and will probably need a second! Poor dog...poor kids...poorer (by several thousand dollars) owners... meanwhile, at the same time, (three years ago) we adopted our neighbour's dog, whom we knew was well trained, lovable, sweet, but older, my family and I could not be happier with our choice. Our friends have even admitted that they wish they had gone with a "mutt" like ours...

I mentioned petfinder which is a great resource, hope she checks that out.
Craiglist is a good suggestion too.

I was thinking of mentioning having her kids witness the miracle of death but I need to stay on good terms with my fellow students whom I might see again in my two year massage program. We work together rather closely sometime.

Wanting a mutt is a personal preference. I like purebreds better, I don't like the idea of randomly breeding dogs together to produce mutts.

As for wanting a puppy, I do think there's advantages and disadvantages to getting a puppy or an adult dog. The main disadvantages of a puppy is that there's already adult dogs in rescues that need homes.

Furthermore, they gave me the miracle of birth thing. Their children are at the right age for witnessing and experiencing a litter of puppies.
Now I'm not anti breeder, but the final reason they gave me for breeding is in my view not a good enough reason to breed.

Maybe if she uses her dogs as a show it will save her from explaining an awkward topic. Lame!

Seriously I have a big issue with pure bred breeding. The gene pool for dogs is getting ridiculously small. It is not in the species' interest. I Agree with your stance Eclipse.

uuuggg... and you know what? Poorly bred goldens are some of the nastiest dogs ever. Hyyyyyper with no off switch. Just genetic nightmares.

*I hope she changes her mind*

Ok just sorta a venting post I'm afraid.

I recomended they go to a breed rescue first and they have told me that rescues cost more then going to a breeder (if that's true, it's a real shame).
I tried to explain my belief that nobody should breed a dog unless there's none of that kind out there needing a home, in this case golden retrivers.

Then they insist on having a puppy. Rescues hardly ever have puppies which does seems to be true.

Furthermore, they gave me the miracle of birth thing. Their children are at the right age for witnessing and experiencing a litter of puppies.
Now I'm not anti breeder, but the final reason they gave me for breeding is in my view not a good enough reason to breed.

it can be true of backyard breeders.

Some do, I ran across this problem when looking for a second Aussie, some shelters wanted well over 250$ for an adult rescue dog, it was just crazy!
Out in the hill country you can get working stock Aussie ( these are bred for herding ability not looks)for about 75$ to 100$ because they are so common out on ranch lands.
I finaly found one at a small shelter though that only asked donations to adopt.
Well $250 is about what I expected from a rescue. $150 to $300 for a purebreed dog from a rescue. It's not crazy when you think about the costs they put into them. ... But this is versus what, $500 to $1500 for a purebreed dog from a reputable breeder. So still, unless she's just looking in the paper or something for someone that just wants to get rid of them, money is a bad excuse for going to a breeder. A breeder that charges less than $200 is probably just in over their head and now trying to get rid of them. If she's going that route, then it's highly doubtful she'll even consider checking the rupatability of the breeder, let alone any health and tempermant concerns in their line.

Wanting a mutt is a personal preference. I like purebreds better, I don't like the idea of randomly breeding dogs together to produce mutts.




I'm not sure what you mean by 'randomly breeding dogs' together. I don't like the idea of breeding any dog when so many are being put to sleep.

Mutts are less likely than purebreds to have genetic diseases and are on the whole healthier than purebreds.

Here's a G.R. rescue in Vermont:

http://www.gatewaytovermont.com/Rescue/

Well $250 is about what I expected from a rescue. $150 to $300 for a purebreed dog from a rescue. It's not crazy when you think about the costs they put into them. ... But this is versus what, $500 to $1500 for a purebreed dog from a reputable breeder. So still, unless she's just looking in the paper or something for someone that just wants to get rid of them, money is a bad excuse for going to a breeder. A breeder that charges less than $200 is probably just in over their head and now trying to get rid of them. If she's going that route, then it's highly doubtful she'll even consider checking the rupatability of the breeder, let alone any health and tempermant concerns in their line.
Wow 250$ is normal were you live for a rescue?
75$ is about average here for the shelters pure bred or not the price is the same.
It is kind of sad they charge so much , I mean I understand the cost of what it takes to care for an animal but that IMO is a bit to high of an adoption fee, no wonder back yard breeders are becomming so common which only adds to the problem of course but I can see shelters trying to recover thier losses.
It is just disheartning to know that it is cheaper to get a dog from any old breeder than to rescue one.

I have no idea where you live but if you are in Texas this is a pretty good rescue maybe you can give to your friend

http://www.animaldefenseleague.org/

Wow 250$ is normal were you live for a rescue?
75$ is about average here for the shelters pure bred or not the price is the same.
It is kind of sad they charge so much , I mean I understand the cost of what it takes to care for an animal but that IMO is a bit to high of an adoption fee, no wonder back yard breeders are becomming so common which only adds to the problem of course but I can see shelters trying to recover thier losses.
It is just disheartning to know that it is cheaper to get a dog from any old breeder than to rescue one.
Shelters are typically cheaper than rescues. $75 to $100 is about average for the shelters around here. It's just the rescue groups that are around $200. Rescues are different from shelters because they generally only focus on one breed and tend to put more time and money into each dog. In a typical rescue group every dog they have is in a foster home, and they make sure all behavioral problems are worked out before the dog goes to a new home. There's also usually a waiting list to get a dog from a rescue group for the more in demand breeds.

When I said shelter I did mean rescue, that is what the no kill shelters here charge is about 75$, the "pound" as I call it charges 60 I think.
Course most foster homes absorb the cost of careing for the animal here other than vet fee's.

same here - rescues typically charge between $150 and $250.

Wow I guess I should just be thankful I live in an area that adopting a rescue dog is an affordable option.

I'm not sure if we're talking about the same thing. No-kill shelters aren't the same thing as rescue groups, even though they certainly rescue animals. The link you posted was a shelter, similar to the no-kill shelter that I work at and foster out of. The link alfie posted right above your post is what is commonly thought of when one talks about a rescue or rescue group. To me they're two different things, and often have different adoption procedures and fees. It's the rescue groups like alfie linked that have higher fees, and in the one she linked it said they charge upwards of $250. Maybe you would call them breed-specific rescue groups or something?

A "pound" or an open-access shelter is yet another entity, and yeah they tend to be even cheaper because if they don't get adoptions then they have to euthanize. They also typically work under a county/city contract, and because of the high numbers are usually unable to spend time working with the dogs.

Yes I would call them breed specific groups:yes:
I guess it is a matter of us useing differant wording, to me a shelter is a broad term refering to a place that takes in and cares for animals, a rescue = no kill, differant use of wording can be confusing and yes the breed rescues around here do charge upward of 250 to 300 but I always assumed it was because the animals were pure bred because many are owner turn ins and have papers still when they are adopted.