Not much research on my part...just the odd news piece, but what is going to happen in Iran? What should happen?

They just wrote a $50 million dollar check to hamas which is basically palestine, which (if i remember correctly) does not acknowledge israel's right to even exist, and seems to me to support genocide. And i've seen news articles quoting iran's leader speaking extremely anti-semetic sentiment.

So now we add nuclear capability to the puzzle.

a) Can they scramble quickly to make a few warheads?
b) Aren't warheads easy to make? I thought the hardest part was enriching the uranium.
c) If they can get their **** together before the UN intervenes will they tell the UN to bugger off?
d) If the UN allows them to develop nuclear thingies, will they then just take the time to amass an arsenal to they can really tell the western world/UN to bugger off? Although they may not be able to target western targets i think isreal makes a bloody good hostage, maybe enough of a hostage to be able to tell the UN to bugger off without the risk of a UN supported invasion.
e) I realize it will take alot of technology to actually stand a chance at being capable of hitting US targets with nukes, but will they use them against closer targets?
f) Will they supply nukes to the palestinians to irradicate the israelis?
g) What should the UN do?
h) What should the US do?

One former defense official, who still deals with sensitive issues for the Bush Administration, told me that the military planning was premised on a belief that “a sustained bombing campaign in Iran will humiliate the religious leadership and lead the public to rise up and overthrow the government.” He added, “I was shocked when I heard it, and asked myself, ‘What are they smoking?’ ”

http://www.newyorker.com/fact/content/articles/060417fa_fact



The United States is set conduct its largest ever conventional explosives test in June by detonating a 700 ton mass of fuel oil. The test will gauge the American ability to attack enemy underground facilities associated with weapons of mass destruction. The brilliant minds at the Pentagon call this test "Divine Strake."

The Washington Post's whiz bang story on Friday about the planned detonation has provoked a small firestorm.

Minority Leader Sen. Harry Reid (D-NV) said in a statement he is concerned that a test of this magnitude will have an adverse effect on his state, particularly after a Defense Department spokesman said that the test at the Nevada Test Site will put a mushroom cloud over Las Vegas for the first time in decades.

Others -- such as the Federation of American Scientists -- have focused on the mock nuclear bunker buster character of the 700 ton explosion (the largest regular conventional bomb in the U.S. arsenal is ONE ton).



http://blogs.washingtonpost.com/earlywarning/2006/04/divine_guidance.html

One former defense official...

so what do we do?

i'm kinda asking these questions to get people to toss these decisions over in their minds as if they had to come up with a plan of action. Right now i don't know what i'd do.

I do think we cannot allow an administration who seems to want to exterminate jews, and who supports hamas with $50 million checks to aquire nuclear explosives and hand them off to hamas. But i'd like to hear what the liberal solutions are.

One thing that's irritating to me as an american is to get internationally bashed for administrative decisions after the fact. This is something that hasn't occurred yet, and i'm hoping to get some creative solutions that don't involve the US violently overthrowing the government if iran.

People are constantly bashing the US for iraq, but when i ask 'what should we do now?' people don't seem to have many suggestions other than to walk out, leave the country in ruins, and completely hand the government over to religious fanatics.

So what do we do about Iran?

The UN should run and hide.

Israel or the USA should/will blast Iran's nuclear facilities into last week.

Will they supply nukes to the palestinians to irradicate the israelis?

I think that Isreal can stand against Iran anyway. I am sure that they will not wait on the US for action if this does happen. But heck, what do I know.:stinkeye:

People are constantly bashing the US for iraq, but when i ask 'what should we do now?' people don't seem to have many suggestions other than to walk out, leave the country in ruins, and completely hand the government over to religious fanatics.

True, and we have not left the country in ruins anyway. Well, so to say. The whole thing is about religion, obviously. Read Revelations. :D

Iran? wassssup, cracked me up. :lol:

I think that Isreal can stand against Iran anyway. I am sure that they will not wait on the US for action if this does happen. But heck, what do I know.:stinkeye:


If the west gave the rest of the world a week to do what they wanted to do with no consequences at a minimum Israel and Taiwan would be gone.

If the west gave the rest of the world a week to do what they wanted to do with no consequences at a minimum Israel and Taiwan would be gone.

NAAAHHH, Isreal is a very powerful Country. I bet my whole hundred bucks in my savings account, that Isreal will kick some butt, if they have too.:deal:

Not sure what Taiwan has to do with it though.

But who freakin knows anyway, and hopes that this whole Iran thing does not happen, but we have known for years that it will.:stinkeye:

If the west gave the rest of the world a week to do what they wanted to do with no consequences at a minimum Israel and Taiwan would be gone.
Taiwan, maybe. South Korea, another maybe. Israel I am not so sure, they have a very bad ass military over there. Some fine equipment and they train a lot harder than we do. Various Arab nations have tried to take Israel out of the picture in the past and have been put in their place quite effectively.

NAAAHHH, Isreal is a very powerful Country. I bet my whole hundred bucks in my savings account, that Isreal will kick some butt, if they have too.:deal:

Not sure what Taiwan has to do with it though.

But who freakin knows anyway, and hopes that this whole Iran thing does not happen, but we have known for years that it will.:stinkeye:

we keep hearing how great the Israeli armed forces are but the PLO did a pretty good job of keeping them in check for years with rocks and car bombs

NAAAHHH, Isreal is a very powerful Country. I bet my whole hundred bucks in my savings account, that Isreal will kick some butt, if they have too.:deal:

Not sure what Taiwan has to do with it though.

But who freakin knows anyway, and hopes that this whole Iran thing does not happen, but we have known for years that it will.:stinkeye:
Mainland China (communist) has been trying to take out Taiwan (Nationalist) which is an island off the east coast of China since the 50's when they fled their to escape the communists, and set up their own country.

we keep hearing how great the Israeli armed forces are but the PLO did a pretty good job of keeping them in check for years with rocks and car bombs
for the same reasons we are having a hard time establishing peace in Iraq. Unless a gov't is willing to just start locking up or killing everyone even remotely involved with dissidents (PLO as an example) then it is difficult to keep them in check; however, as we did in Iraq in a stand up fight where the enemy is known I think it would just be another 6 day war like in the late 60's.

http://www.sixdaywar.orcon.net.nz/html/war.htm

Taiwan, maybe. South Korea, another maybe. Israel I am not so sure, they have a very bad ass military over there. Some fine equipment and they train a lot harder than we do. Various Arab nations have tried to take Israel out of the picture in the past and have been put in their place quite effectively.

Exactly, Isreal is one of our allies and a bad ass Nation. Glad they are our friends.:p

we keep hearing how great the Israeli armed forces are but the PLO did a pretty good job of keeping them in check for years with rocks and car bombs

Just wait. They are saving their energy for the good stuff.:shifty:

for the same reasons we are having a hard time establishing peace in Iraq.

:doh: You can not bring a democracy that is so foreign to a nation like that and expect miracles to them. I think that they are used to the way that they live. I would be pissed also if someone was taking over my land, telling me what I should believe, how to act, after everything my culture grew up on. That would be a slap in my face and the culture that I knew. Even the women that are so under legalism, well that is the only thing that they know. Anything else would be a shock, culture factor to them.

It would be like Mr. Ben, taking over our nation and telling me that I had to wear a burka, not watch an R rated movie, and tell me that I am not allowed to go to a bar for fun.

That is why they most do not appreciate the US help. I mean hello, we helped them to a degree, then tryed to change their belief system.

It will not work. I would object to it, if this is the country that I was born and bread in, tryed to change my views of thinking, family traditions, etc.

That is why the US has NO grounds to try to make a nation like us. Good gravy!

That is why the US has NO grounds to try to make a nation like us. Good gravy!

Not just the US, but the entire Western World.

We seem to think that the average middle eastern person wants and understands democracy, it's like trying to explain spaceflight to a six-year-old.

For the most part (and I have discussed this with middle eastern people, Iraqis, Lebanese, Indian, Pakistani, Kashmiri, Sikh, Muslim, and Christian) these countries and religions have NO interest in being a democracy, except to do business with the west. A thin sheen of democracy will do them well, for appearances sake.

When the USA, Canada, England (UK), and other Western nations decide to bring democracy to certain places it does nothing but aggrivate the nationals.

Maybe I have only spoken to the exceptions, but at least I have spoken to the people who have family, friends, and property in these 'extremist' states, but they all wonder who granted this power of democracy to the West, and why we insist on pushing it on them. If Iraq or SA brought Sharia law to us, would we like it? No, it goes against the values held by a majority of western people. I am not saying we are right or wrong, but I agree with Goettling (EGADS!) we (the west) have no good reason to tell anyone else how to live.

Until I see an end to hunger, opression, and homelessness here we have no reason to try and 'fix' other societies.

Until I see an end to hunger, opression, and homelessness here we have no reason to try and 'fix' other societies.

Just imagine how far we would be in fixing our problems if the 1 trillion dollars we will spend on the iraq war was instead spent on us. But we'd have never allocated anything close to that amount for extra social programs here.

I'm generally against taxing myself to pay for free handouts for crackheads, but in hindsight...

Is anyone even remotely aware of the geography of Iran?, combine the US and British army and I expect they will still be rather ****ed

They just wrote a $50 million dollar check to hamas which is basically palestine, which (if i remember correctly) does not acknowledge israel's right to even exist, and seems to me to support genocide. And i've seen news articles quoting iran's leader speaking extremely anti-semetic sentiment.
Neither did the PLO recognize Israel's right to exist to begin with, but that didn't stop other nations from giving aid so they could establish a government/administration. Moving away from an extreme stance (wanting to destroy Israel) to a more moderate stance takes time, but the US administration doesn't seem to understand this. Instead they want to use force and/or "blackmail" methods. It's an approach that is doomed to fail. Hamas is now forced into the hands of Iran.

Fortunately, Quatar also wrote a $50 million check, so they won't have to rely entirely on Iran's support.

As for Iran's "leader" president Ahmadinejad (the real leader is Iran's supreme leader Ayatollah Ali Khamenei) expressing extreme statements about Israel, you have to take into account domestic circumstances inside Iran as well as Iran's relations to the rest of the world. Confronting Israel (verbally) is a way to hide domestic problems. And opposition within Iran will be careful to criticise the president because such criticism will seem unpatriotic in the current situation.

I don't like the idea of Iran getting nuclear weapons. But I also don't like the fact that North Korea probably already has nuclear weapons. I don't think it's a great idea that Pakistan has them either, because there are a lot of fundamentalists there, and who knows what will happen there in the future. Speaking of fundamentalists, you have a fair share of them over in the US, which is the nation with the most impressive nuclear weaponary. What should the world do about that? ;)

What should we do about any nation that we suspect is in the process of developing nuclear weapons?

ETA: As for Iran and military intervention or "operations", one will also have to consider the oil price. Even rumours of military force might lead to new record high oil prices.

Speaking of fundamentalists, you have a fair share of them over in the US, which is the nation with the most impressive nuclear weaponary. What should the world do about that? ;)

but the expression 'fundamentalist' is relative as are terms like 'liberal'

to the pope i'm extremely liberal, but to timothy leary i'd probably be considered pretty right wing

the "fundamentalists" in the US are not strapping bombs to themselves, and detonating themselves in liberal restaraunts, and our fundamentalists don't cut the nose off their sister's face, gouge her eyes out, then set her on fire because she was caught kissing a man out of wedlock

and as mild as our fundamentalists are, they are the extreme tiny minority whereas their fundamentalists control the military and government

as far as what we do with countries with nuclear capabilites...i'd like to see all the programs dismantled...everyone including the usa...but the main problem with that is the mess of "we want nuclear technology for energy"

i'd rather see all programs dismantled though and develop other forms of energy that don't create radioactive waste products

Neither did the PLO recognize Israel's right to exist to begin with, but that didn't stop other nations from giving aid so they could establish a government/administration. Moving away from an extreme stance (wanting to destroy Israel) to a more moderate stance takes time, but the US administration doesn't seem to understand this. Instead they want to use force and/or "blackmail" methods. It's an approach that is doomed to fail. Hamas is now forced into the hands of Iran.

Fortunately, Quatar also wrote a $50 million check, so they won't have to rely entirely on Iran's support.

As for Iran's "leader" president Ahmadinejad (the real leader is Iran's supreme leader Ayatollah Ali Khamenei) expressing extreme statements about Israel, you have to take into account domestic circumstances inside Iran as well as Iran's relations to the rest of the world. Confronting Israel (verbally) is a way to hide domestic problems. And opposition within Iran will be careful to criticise the president because such criticism will seem unpatriotic in the current situation.

I don't like the idea of Iran getting nuclear weapons. But I also don't like the fact that North Korea probably already has nuclear weapons. I don't think it's a great idea that Pakistan has them either, because there are a lot of fundamentalists there, and who knows what will happen there in the future. Speaking of fundamentalists, you have a fair share of them over in the US, which is the nation with the most impressive nuclear weaponary. What should the world do about that? ;)

What should we do about any nation that we suspect is in the process of developing nuclear weapons?

ETA: As for Iran and military intervention or "operations", one will also have to consider the oil price. Even rumours of military force might lead to new record high oil prices.
The US has had the weapons the longest and yes the US is the only nation so far to use those weapons in anger; however, since they were used 60 yrs ago the US has not used them since, personally think we have done a pretty job of policing ourselves in that regard, but Thanks for your concern.

Is anyone even remotely aware of the geography of Iran?, combine the US and British army and I expect they will still be rather ****ed
Wouldn't that depend on the size of the military forces deployed?

Wouldn't that depend on the size of the military forces deployed?
Are you suggesting that they actually have more forces to deploy? And not to mention funding. Maybe if they started drafting people like in Vietnam. Oh, but I'm afraid that would mean political suicide, though.

Wouldn't that depend on the size of the military forces deployed?
From a logistics point of view it would be hard to deploy limited numbers of soldiers across such a vast mountainous region.

but the expression 'fundamentalist' is relative as are terms like 'liberal'

to the pope i'm extremely liberal, but to timothy leary i'd probably be considered pretty right wing
A detail: The opposite of liberal is conservative. The opposite of right wing is left wing. Two different cups of tea, altogether.

the "fundamentalists" in the US are not strapping bombs to themselves, and detonating themselves in liberal restaraunts, and our fundamentalists don't cut the nose off their sister's face, gouge her eyes out, then set her on fire because she was caught kissing a man out of wedlock

and as mild as our fundamentalists are, they are the extreme tiny minority whereas their fundamentalists control the military and government
First, my comment about the US was said jokingly, and was not meant to be the main point of my post. That aside, you don't have to be a suicide bomber or torture or physically abuse women to be a fundamentalist. That is also true for people in the Middle East and other parts of the world.

A tendency to interpret the word of the holy scriptures literally is enough to make you a fundamentalist, and in this respect there is certainly more than an "extreme tiny minority" of fundamentalists in the US.

A tendency to interpret the word of the holy scriptures literally is enough to make you a fundamentalist, and in this respect there is certainly more than an "extreme tiny minority" of fundamentalists in the US.

well i live here, and i'll really have to disagree with that statement. You'll have to give me an estimated population, and a clearer definition of this population.

Since christianity is the major religion here, i presume you're talking about christians.

I've known many, many, many christians in my life, and i've yet to meet one who has a tendency to take the word of the holy scriptures literally. Like you, i do sometimes see those individuals on T.V., but have never, ever met one.

the vast majority of christians in this country live life like everyone else in north america. Eat at mcdonalds, watch sports on T.V., shop at wal-mart etc.

They may harbor silly ideas of the afterlife, or dislike homosexuals, and prefer to keep their women at home and pregnant, and a few might even believe in creationism, but to lump them in the same category as insanely violent suicide bombers is, or a group calling for the extermination of jews is absurd, and makes your choice of that word to descibe or combine these two extremely different populations completely meaningless.