Raw sweetener besides agave

[SamuelWilson]

I am doing a little experimenting, researching, etc. on natural sweeteners. I am curious what other raw foodist use to sweeten their raw recipes with, besides agave or dates. I am vegan, so honey is not eve an option.

The issue with agave is the fact that the company still refuses to explain in full detail the process they put agave through and I just don't trust them. I am experimenting with white grape juice and apple juice as sweeteners.

Please just help me brainstorm here. Share your ideas please.

[Sharon]

Are you looking for a specific application? Dates come to mind, but not sure what you are using for.

Some people use bananas too.

I've head of yacon syrup, never tried it myself.

Or purchase a little stevia plant and use the leaves.

[SamuelWilson]

Sharon, thanks for your reply. On the dates, I had mentioned that already as one of the sweeteners that I didn't want to use. Dates are great in pie crust, etc, but tend to add a date flavor to sweet drinks and raw soups.

Bananas have the problem of adding banana flavor. I have yacon syrup and I do not like it. It has a malt after taste that is not very good. Stevia would only be an option in whole leave format and honestly, I feel doubtful of it. I used stevia when I was a cooked food vegan and I did not like it. I tried it in both powder form and liquid form.

My application is just general. I am basically just looking to get rid of agave since none of the people who supply it can give me a full explanation on the process. I pretty much know what they do to agave, the problem is they won't admit it. They are adding a small amount of honey as their so called "secret ingredient" to make the agave digestable. I can't prove it, but I feel that is what they do. I find it quite interesting that the leading producer of agave is also a major supplier of honey.

[Sharon]

Samuel it would be interesting to get a lab analysis of that agave to see if your feelings are correct. I wouldn't mind knowing myself - although I use it and honey but it would be just nice to know. Madhava produces honey too so that could be happening. Did you ever ask if it is a vegan product?

I get gallons of the stuff through my co-op at a great price, about one-fourth the cost of what many of those raw sites are charging. I use it in my white iced tea mostly but sometimes in a smoothie if I add a strong green.

[SamuelWilson]

Sharon, they say the agave is vegan, however, I don't believe it. Agave is a great product, I can't tell you how many great uses I have for it. Its clear color is perfect also. It doesn't turn my clear dressing and fruit juices a cloudy color like dates do.

I remember opening a bottle of agave one time and it tasted so much like honey, it could have been mistaken for honey and no one would have noticed. A possible explanation is that, when they were filling bottles, they did not clean the dispensor and some honey was still in the lines. I sincerely doubt Madhava has a total seperate bottling system just for agave, I can almost guarantee they use the same system for both.

[butterfly_acid]

that's interesting. Now, I know I mention it a lot but I work at an olive garden. as tasteless as this might sound, it's the only time I've done this, I swear. Someone left behind a packet of Stevia extract (unopened, not wet/anything...didn't look tampered)...

I opened it and tasted it. It was really nasty, but very sweet. At that point, I'd never heard of the stuff before, but after that, noticed it in health food aisles at the store. Food for thought. While I didn't appreciate the taste, I'm not everyone on earth, nor did I try it in tea/on fruit/etc.

I'm sure a teaspoon of sugar itself, as well as any other form of sugar wouldn't be pleasant completely alone either.

[SamuelWilson]

Stevia has a bitter aftertaste. I have tried it several times just hoping I had tasted a bad batch, etc., but it is just not going to work. So far, white grape juice appears to be my best sweetener, unless I find a better alternative. I really don't want to give up agave, but I will not consume a product that is just not natural. Bottom line, if you extract agave from a cactus it is a thin watery sweetener, it is not a honey like liquid at all. So until, they tell me how it becomes a honey like liquid, I have no choice but to abandon it.

[SamuelWilson]

I just made some basic salad dressing with white grape juice as the sweetener and it was a winner. Unless I hear a better suggestion, it appears as though white grape juice and apple juice are my best bet for 100% raw all natural sweeteners.

[Kiz]

How come raw sugar is out? They don't burn the cane any more.

[SamuelWilson]

I have consumed actual pieces of whole raw sugar cane. However, sugar granules, even the brown unbleached sugar, still has heat applied to it during processing.

[Kiz]

Ah... ok. Thank you. Raw sugar cane is pretty awesome. I haven't had it in years and years. There's a place in Chinatown (Sydney) that makes fruit drinks with raw sugar cane as the sweetener, I've yet to try them out though. I don't have much of a sweet tooth.

[~Wonder]

What if you soaked the raw sugarcane in water, or put it in the blender and then through a cheese cloth. I'm sure that would taste pretty darn sweet and you might even be able to evaporate it into sugar crystals. Just a thought, not sure if it would work though. I know I used to see raw sugarcane at the grocery store.
HTH,
~Wonder :smoke:

[SamuelWilson]

What if you soaked the raw sugarcane in water, or put it in the blender and then through a cheese cloth.

I have actually did that before, the problem is it takes quite a bit of raw sugar cane to make a decent amount of sweetener. I am glad you mentioned it though, I am still keeping sugar cane in the back of my mind.

[rawgirl]

I just found out about a brand of agave yesterday that is raw and says of the bottle that it is processed below 115 degrees. I'll have to find out the name for you. Also, our chef talked to the company that makes the yacon syrup that Nature's First Law sells and they said it is NOT raw. So if you want to stay raw, stay away from that. As far as stevia, what brand have you tried? I don't like any but the Kal Pure Stevia Extract Powder. It has no yucky aftertaste. Of course, I don't know exactly how it is processed and whether or not it is raw.

Any dried fruit works or you can try soaking dried fruit and using the soak water, which gets very sweet. Besides that, I don't know. But I will try to find the name of the brand of agave that is raw.

[SamuelWilson]

I just found out about a brand of agave yesterday that is raw and says of the bottle that it is processed below 115 degrees. I'll have to find out the name for you.

It is Madhava and they add a secret vegan ingredient which they will not disclose. They say they do not want anyone else to copy their recipe. Just the fact that they call agave a "recipe" is reason enough to stay away from it. Raw foods should only have one ingredient and that one ingredient should not be heated.

[Sharon]

I just had a thought Samuel. Have you looked into Palm Sugar? I got a jar of it at a Thai market for a recipe, I am not sure if it's cooked, but it almost tastes like sweetened condensed milk to me. It is really hard, I have to use a fork to get the contents out of the jar, it's almost as stiff as coco butter. Something to check into.

Also, you had mentioned that agave tastes a little like honey to you. I thought that was so strange because I can't taste honey, but it has always tasted like cotton candy. We all know that cotton candy (candy floss for the brits) is pretty much cooked sugar. Hmm? What to make of that?

Another thought - Raw Priestess from RFT once posted about dehydrating Jicama and powdering it to make powdered sugar.

[purrpelle]

my agave is from Sweet Cactus Farms.

it is USDA organic and states under ingredients: organic agave nectar

is the debate here whether it's raw or that there's a hidden ingredient that may or may not be raw?

[rawgirl]

Just a thought...has anyone tried sugarcane juice? Mmmm...amazing! It's dark green in color but it is oh so sweet!

Oh, you could use coconut milk to sweeten. Of course you may not want to use Thai milk because the Thai coconuts are dipped in chemicals before they are allowed to be imported to the USA.

[WonderRandy]

I have a friend who makes cane juice and sells it to locals. She makes amazing sorbets with it, as well as sweet drinks with lime, passion, or ginger. It's also amazing in smoothies.

just cold-pressed cane juice. nothing else.

It's supposed to have medicinal qualities, as well as trace nutrients.

[Raw_Medic]

my agave is from Sweet Cactus Farms.

it is USDA organic and states under ingredients: organic agave nectar

is the debate here whether it's raw or that there's a hidden ingredient that may or may not be raw?

Just an FYI for you, I emailed Sweet Cactus Farms and they confirmed that their agave is not raw.

The lady was actually quite rude in her email, but got me thinking...she says it's impossible to make truly raw agave nectar...and suggested I question the supposed "raw" agave producers.

[purrpelle]

Just an FYI for you, I emailed Sweet Cactus Farms and they confirmed that their agave is not raw.

The lady was actually quite rude in her email, but got me thinking...she says it's impossible to make truly raw agave nectar...and suggested I question the supposed "raw" agave producers.

well, I am not a exacting raw person so I don't mind that it's not raw, but I do mind that she was rude. I try not to do business with rude people. but thanks anyway.

anyway, I was just babbling cause i didn't have any constructive help for Sam, other than a different brand of agave.

my biggest issue with Agave right now is that i was eating a slice of toast with earth balance and agave on it while on the computer a few days ago and a drop of agave got in between the T and the G on the keyboard, so I have to backspace after each T or else it looks like tghis I could clean itg butg I'm kinda used tgo itg now.

[SamuelWilson]

Special thanks to everyone for their participation in this thread.

Let me go ahead right up front and clarify the reason I created this thread. The reason was to find an alternative sweetener that didn't bring an aftertaste or other unwanted characteristic with it.

If you are raw and you are using agave, then that is ok. Don't sweat the small stuff. Agave is far better than sugar or maple syrup health wise and it is vegan.

I just want to expand my horizons and have an alternative, that is all.

I have tried jicama root, both juiced and dehydrated and then ground into a powder. Jicama brings a slight starch taste with it (it is also called the Mexican Potato). On top of that, jicama does not have the sweetening power of agave. It does have a sweet taste, I will give it that. Probably the sweetest of any root vegetable.

The best way to consume agave is in cactus water format, however, it goes rancid quickly and it would have to be obtained directly from the farmers themselves. As far as I know, true agave water is not sold anywhere. I have performed internet searches to no avail.

I do like white grape juice as a sweetener, it is my best alternative so far. If I get the right amount so that the grape flavor doesn't stand out, then I think I have a winner here.

I am sure if there was an easy answer, it would be commercially available. There is probably a reason why agave, stevia and dates are the leading sweeteners for raw foodist. They are tried and true.

[penny79]

apricots, apples, raisins

[karenM]

If you are raw and you are using agave, then that is ok. Don't sweat the small stuff. Agave is far better than sugar or maple syrup health wise and it is vegan.
I hope no one minds me jumping in here, as I'm not a raw foodist and I haven't contributed to this thread so far... but I'm curious as to why agave syrup would be better than sugar (even the cold-pressed cane juice WonderRandy mentioned?) and maple syrup. You're not really using very large amounts of sweetener, so I'm assuming the increase in nutrients (if any) would be negligible. Or are there substances in sugar or maple syrup that you consider detrimental to one's health, even in very small quantities?

The thread has been interesting so far! I'm not a big fan of sweet foods (not even fruit), but I guess we all need a little extra sweetness in our lives now and then. :)

[SamuelWilson]

karenM, thanks for your reply. I probably have been a little too hard on agave. I just wanted an alternative sweetener that was all natural. The thing with agave is that it has to be heated and have an ingredient (unknown) added to thicken it and intensify it. Another words, they are removing the water so that it is sweeter and thicker.

Dates are great in a dessert crust, however, I personally don't like dates in most other raw recipes simply because of characteristics it adds. It darkens and thickens recipes you blend it into.

My search now is for the sweetest apple variety.