Is there such a thing as ethical eggs/dairy?

[Random]

Out of all the reasons that I am working towards becoming vegetarian, I find myself most concerned about how animals live their lives. If possible, I would like to continue eating eggs and dairy, but am absolutely sickened by industry farming practices. I don't believe that eating dairy and eggs is by definition unethical, but I'm wondering how/if I can find out if organic or "free range" products are really what they claim to be. I am doubly disgusted by products that use these terms as a marketing ploy without living up to what they claim to be.

Any thoughts?

[cherylhill]

Unless you visit a local family farmer and see his chickens and dairy cows and are assured his calves do not become veal, probably not. Veal is a byproduct of the dairy industry. Dairy products (cow's mammary gland secretions) are not digestable by humans, and eggs are well, chicken menstral cycles- yum!

I'm too new to post weblinks, but visit PeTA, Farm Sanctuary, Vegan Outreach, and a website called milksucks dot com. Farm Sanctaury and Vgean Outreach are dot org. PeTA is dot com.

There is no such thing as 100% vegan, but once you know something is associated with animal suffering, it is best to cease and desist as best you can- for the animals sake. Dairy and eggs would be in that group.

[Romac]

Is there such a thing as ethical eggs/dairy?

no
impossible
anyone arguing otherwise is a speciesist

[Jessica]

"Ethical dairy", no I don't think that can really exist. However wonderful the conditions the cows are kept in, they still need to calf to be able to give milk, and those calves (the males at least) are very likely to be killed.

"Ethical eggs", yes I think that (though it's rare) you can find them. Probably only if you're eating the eggs of pet chickens who are allowed to live out their natural lives and are not mated.

[Junia]

Lots of different opinions exist on this one. Mine is that ethical eggs and dairy exist in theory, but I'm not able to obtain them. I'm not sure where you are, but in the United States, "cage-free" and "free range" labels don't carry a whole lot of meaning (I'm told that in Australia things are different, but I don't really know). I have yet to see dairy products that are compassionate towards the cow and her calves. In my theory, it would basically be "pet" animals that would be acceptable here, as current agricultural methods don't really make compassion "feasible" for those who are trying to make a profit. I became a vegan not because I believe it's an inherent wrong to eat eggs or dairy, but because I choose not to support those industries and their practices.

[healthnut32]

[QUOTE

There is no such thing as 100% vegan, but once you know something is associated with animal suffering, it is best to cease and desist as best you can- for the animals sake. Dairy and eggs would be in that group.[/QUOTE]


I agree. I used to love eggs and milk, but I can't enjoy anything that is produced by such suffering.

[isowish]

(warning: hypocrite alert! I am lacto-ovo. But these are my honest views, not trying to justify myself. I know I SHOULDN'T eat dairy & eggs)

I would say that there can be ethical eggs. For me to believe they are ethical, though, I would have to buy the chicks myself - and they would have to be unsexed, so that I would know the seller did not simply kill male chicks. I would have to allow both males and females to live out their natural lives. I would have to allow them good living conditions, etc. I wouldn't trust any farm to provide me with truly ethical eggs, though of course some are better than others.

I don't know enough about the dairy industry. But AFAIK the cow has to be impregnated (most likely forceably) and the calf does not receive as much of the milk as it should have, and/or hormones are used to ensure that it produces too much milk. Therefore, IMO, there is no such thing as ethical dairy.

[Bluebutterfly05]

The only ethical dairy is if you had permission from a human mother to drink her breastmilk (a cow won't give permission), or if you drank your own (provided the baby still gets some).

[Sevenseas]

The only ethical dairy is if you had permission from a human mother to drink her breastmilk (a cow won't give permission), or if you drank your own (provided the baby still gets some).And human breastmilk is RAW!

Can anyone realize that it's raw milk and not run to the nearest nursing mother?

[Diana]

Is it possible to make cheese with human breastmilk?

[goatee]

Here's an interesting site:

http://www.ffl.org/html/milk_issue.html (Hare Krishna perspective on milk)

The only ethical ones would be where the animals are treated very well and can live out their lives to a natural end. Like pets.

Even organic and small scale farms will usually kill the animals when they become "unproductive". Hare Krishnas don't kill creatures though and their animals would be well cared for.

[Misty]

Is it possible to make cheese with human breastmilk?

My son actually asked me this question yesterday afternoon. I replied that I wasn't sure but I guessed it was possible, but after reading this http://www.indrani.net/index.php?q=2006/03/breast_milk_cheese I guess not. :think:

[froggythefrog]

My son actually asked me this question yesterday afternoon. I replied that I wasn't sure but I guessed it was possible, but after reading this http://www.indrani.net/index.php?q=2006/03/breast_milk_cheese I guess not. :think:

Wow..... Thanks for that link.

[Romac]

My son actually asked me this question yesterday afternoon. I replied that I wasn't sure but I guessed it was possible, but after reading this http://www.indrani.net/index.php?q=2006/03/breast_milk_cheese I guess not. :think:

lol
just goes to show how very different breast milk is to cows milk!

[kpickell]

no
impossible
anyone arguing otherwise is a speciesist
Well, that settles it then, we can lock the thread.

[inie]

And human breastmilk is RAW!

Can anyone realize that it's raw milk and not run to the nearest nursing mother?

What's wrong with raw milk?

Ayway: human breastmilk cheese :stinkeye:
I don't no why, but I think that sounds disgusting :)

[karenM]

Is it possible to make cheese with human breastmilk?
The stuff a breastfed infant spits up looks a lot like cheese...

[Romac]

The stuff a breastfed infant spits up looks a lot like cheese...

lol, but like that article said "it smells like puke" :spew:

[User_Name]

I supposae you could, I mean if you did yourself had the animals on your property and took excellent care of them, I cant talk I won't be a vegan 'till the first.:brood: Even then my parents won't like it.

[cherylhill]

no impossible anyone arguing otherwise is a speciesist

I change my view, you are absolutely right! Cow's milk is for baby cow's not humans, and eggs are for future chickens. We have no right to take those from them or use them for our own selfish needs. Most people are allergic or intolerant of these items anyhow and human beings were not designed to digest cow's mammary gland secretions or chicken periods.

Specieism SUCKS!!!! Read "Animal Liberation" by Peter Singer- great book on this.

[Life2k]

I change my view, you are absolutely right! Cow's milk is for baby cow's not humans, and eggs are for future chickens. We have no right to take those from them or use them for our own selfish needs. Most people are allergic or intolerant of these items anyhow and human beings were not designed to digest cow's mammary gland secretions or chicken periods.

Specieism SUCKS!!!! Read "Animal Liberation" by Peter Singer- great book on this.
I will make you a deal. I won't preach Christ to you in that tone of voice if you don't preach veganism to me in that tone of voice. It is very offensive. Using "mammary gland secretions or chicken periods" phrases sounds like psychological propaganda. I am not a vegan yet, and it is tactics like that that make me say it will be a cold day in He** before that convinces me. In fact. It really puts me off. That is overkill in a really big way. I dare you to convince me in a manner that speaks to me--and Hitlerisms won't do it.

[ltlghiagrl]

eggs - maybe sorta (but still - yuck!)
dairy - no way


side note: animal liberation has been in my car for like, a year. i just can't get through it - it's rather . . . dry

[Texaspice]

I will make you a deal. I won't preach Christ to you in that tone of voice if you don't preach veganism to me in that tone of voice. It is very offensive. Using "mammary gland secretions or chicken periods" phrases sounds like psychological propaganda. I am not a vegan yet, and it is tactics like that that make me say it will be a cold day in He** before that convinces me. In fact. It really puts me off. That is overkill in a really big way. I dare you to convince me in a manner that speaks to me--and Hitlerisms won't do it.

If we are gonna be inclusive of all kinds of veg*ns on this board we shouldn't exclude people who express their views in all kinds of tones. The post that you are referring to speaks loudly to me - Hearing the harsh truths about dairy and eggs is the kind of push that I needed to become vegan.

[Junia]

I find it amusing that a big banner ad for http://www.planetinneed.com/ tops this page right now.

[tearhsong2]

I will make you a deal. I won't preach Christ to you in that tone of voice if you don't preach veganism to me in that tone of voice. It is very offensive. Using "mammary gland secretions or chicken periods" phrases sounds like psychological propaganda. I am not a vegan yet, and it is tactics like that that make me say it will be a cold day in He** before that convinces me. In fact. It really puts me off. That is overkill in a really big way. I dare you to convince me in a manner that speaks to me--and Hitlerisms won't do it.

Thank you, Life. :wayne:

I have no problems with veganism itself--maybe I'll become vegan one day and it will stick (I've made attempts before and it didn't). It's the preachy attitute that a lot of vegans have that turn many, if not most, non-vegans off from veganism. When anybody uses the names "mammary gland secretions" or "chicken periods" or "animal secretions" for milk and eggs I roll my eyes and usually walk away in disgust. If that's not convincing to many, if not most, lacto-ovo vegetarians, you can imagine how unconvincing it is to most meat, poultry, and fish eating folks. To some it is and they become vegan, but the rest of us remain unconvinced when such tactics are used.