Not sure if this is the right forum for this thread, but...

I saw this (http://www.slate.com/id/2138176/nav/tap1/?GT1=7932) article today about Whole Foods and the organic food movement in general. Not sure what I think about it...even if it might be energetically preferable to buy local non-organic food over imported organic food, I like the idea of supporting the organic foods movement. However, if it's just going to turn into a status symbol... I guess the best solution would be to buy local organic produce.

Food :cool: for thought.

~Hannah

Definitely local organic is best. Sometimes I'm in a dilemma over whether to buy local inorganic produce or organic produce that is shipped from who knows where. There are some things I will never eat unless they're organic though. Peaches, grapes, berries, corn, potatoes, and some other crops are highly sprayed. Sometimes with local farmes though, they don't use huge amounts of fertilizers or they may use no fertilizer, but they can't say organic because their seeds weren't organic.

Yeah, I have the same dilema rawgirl. It is a problem. I also have dilemas over whether to buy organic or fairtrade bananas!

Local organic when you can...but organic is important. Any time people can buy and use food that isn't treated with pesticides and chemicals, it is a good thing for the planet. It's loads better of course when that food didn't have to be driven across the country (or flown from puerto rico) to get to you.

B

Raise the demand for organic, and you will see local organic farmers popping up more.

If there's no demand for organic growers, the entire industry becomes a wash. While it may be inefficient now, it will become more and more efficient as demands increase, due to people desiring to compete locally against those farther imports (even if just crossing state lines).

Just a thought, common economics...

It might be bad for now, but eventually, it will be less bad then good, etc, then eventually the benefits will outweigh the original harm done.

We buy organic, but, as Californians, we're spoiled as far as produce goes.

For those of you in other regions, try to find out if there's a local farmer's market. If you can find one, there's a good chance they might have at least some organic produce and you'll probably find fresher fruits/veggies that might also be cheaper.

up in Michigan, I had asked many farmers if they used pesticides. They said yes. I asked why! They said because the money for organic is much less because it yields less crops, but *they would do it in a heartbeat* if for the space/time/etc the monetary yield was the same. It was actually cheaper for them to use pesticides because of the non-organic demand.

Sorry to double post, but after reading the article, I thought I'd make mention of that tidbit. If the demand was raised, a lot...and increased awareness of the demand, the farmers would in fact follow suit, and happily.

I read somewhere (I don't remember where) that you really get about the same yeild of crop when you grow it organically and when you use pesticides. I don't think it's necessarily true for everything though because I knew a man who lightly sprayed his apples because he tried growing them organic and the bugs would eat them all. But a good thing to keep in mind is that watercress is never sprayed. So if you're out and can't find organic, it's always safe to go with watercress. Onions, garlic, and pecans are not sprayed heavily. I don't think avocados are either.

I read that, in general, organically grown fruits and vegetables have substantially more vitamins and minerals. From my gardening experience though, this probably depends on how much nitrogen fertilizer is used on conventional crops. Nitrogen fertilizer causes plants to grow quicker, and doesn't give as much time for root uptake of minerals prior to harvest.

Yep, yields are about the same for conventional and organic once you get past the initial couple of years during the transition which are very hard because there isn't a population of helpful critters. It takes a couple years for these to return and during those years yields will be extremely low. This is why many farmers don't "just go organic." Because it isn't that simple. Once you get there it's fine, but getting there is tough if you've been spraying previously. There's also a lag between the time you stop spraying and the time you can be certified organic, this may vary depending on the crop.

i agree it is hard when it comes down to local inorganic vs far away organic.

but i also agree with what rawgirl said: that a lot of small time growers are not necessarily certified organic but that they use much less or no pesticides when growing. i know that is true from most of the farmers' markets around here (mass, us).

however, i tend to go local inorganic if it comes down to it. altho i agree that organic is much better for us and the earth, i feel that as organics become a bigger and bigger business more and more large businesses will buy them up and outcompete small time growers anyway. as this happens "organic" standards will become lower and lower and i dont trust big corporations anyway. this is already happening (esp in the banana trade, for instance).

by supporting local growers i am fighting against big business and you develop a relationship with the grower. this allows you to suggest that they try becoming more and more organic. most small time growers are already interested in this idea because it is more sustainable longterm and healthier for themselves and their plants.

I like your philosophy, catswym - unfortunately there aren't any farmers markets that I know of where I am now, but I'm moving in a few months to a really liberal town that's known for being very veg friendly, and has a huge farmer's market every week - I can't wait!! :lick:

~Hannah

Yeah, the decision can be tough. A couple of weeks ago (last week?) Kroger, which is pricy without their sale prices, had three pound bags of apples for $1 a bag. Some of them blantanly said Ohio grown. I was already planning on buying apples there, instead of Aldi (which sells three pound bags for around $1.50), because I could get more for less and I would be good for awhile. I think the Ohio grown ones are Red Delicious. It doesn't matter, becasue they're from farmers and farms from my state.

Kroger sells organic, but they are already expensive, as I said. Therefore, unless the prodiuce is marked down, I don't buy organic there. However, I do buy more organic things at Trader Joe's, when I get there, because they are cheaper. (It's not worth making a special trip there, though. However, Trader Joe's is in the same upscale mall as Gameworks, which my husband likes and I think is a great gimmick, especially since some of the games seem to be in house favor.) The local farmer's market starts in either April or May, but the natural/interantional market in downtown Columbus, is alwasy open and picks up in spring through fall. The first warm day of spring, I'm taking the bus downtown and making a day of it. (I digress.)

Also, the organic produce has to be shipped from who knows where. So I figure that buying local inorganic is better, or as good as, buying organic that has been shipped from half a country away.

Catswym, I agree about big business. I hate it to. I have witnessed Wal-Mart tear up two perfectly good wild areas for their stores. The second one, for their Super Wal-Mart, they tore out a hill, killing tress and uprooting other forms of wild life too. Eventually, too, most of the local stores closed down. Wal-Mart is evil. (Which is why if I have to pay full price for food, I buy store brand at least, but use plenty of coupons which is great since one of the local stores has super double coupons, where everything up to $1 is doubled; couple that with sale prices and I eat for next to nothing and good.)

Again, I digress.

Laura