As-Salaam-o-Aliqum, dear brothers & sisters.

I hope you all are quite serious about what ever you talk in this forum. I hope no body makes any sort of fun of my post. The problem is that I have been searching all around for a few (5-10) handsome and convincable reasons to convince someone to become a vegetarian, but I cannot find even a single one. Can anybody please tell me a few of some solid and convincing reasons for converting a non-veg to a vegetarian?

It's better for your health.

It's better for the environment.

The best way to convert someone is simply live your own life with integrity.

I don't wish to convert people. They must find their own reasons, and if they do I will try to support them.

1. Given the amount of unnecessary-for-wellbeing suffering and death meat-eating causes, we should be asking for reasons for non-veg*nism, not veg*nism.
2. "Meant to" is nonsense.
3. "Other animals eat each other" is irrelevant.

Because it reduces animal suffering.

Many people become vegetarians because they don't like the taste and texture of meat.

if we were meant to eat animals, we were meant to eat animals, but the point/fact of the matter is that these animals are being bred in order to feed us, and they live their entire lives in unhospitable conditions. Conditions that might make a person who does eat meat sick to their stomach. how does it put humans above animals if we harness them inhumanely.

"i'm above on the food chain" is irrelevent...ask the person when he last went hunting for his food and most people wouldn't know what to say to that. Some people do hunt, but for pleasure, and not for the actual need of the meat.

I think the native americans had it right, or they were probably the closest to having it right. I can't live like they did way back when, so I choose not to harm animals 21st century style.

(fyi: they used every part of each animal that was killed, rather than waste, and it was out of a need, not a true hedonistic desire of "because I'm at the top of the food chain and have this opposable thumb").

Regardless:
cows bred for beef are fed bovine growth hormones, antibiotics, and are generally nutritioned all wrong. Then the human consumes them and gets these bovine growth hormones which can cause colon cancer and since it's cancerous, also tends to worsen or create conditions such as degenerative heart diseases...congenital heart failure, heart disease, heart attack, angina, etc.

Milk tends to cause prostate cancer and breast cancer. I wish I had the charts, cuz people would be astounded by it.

regardless of all this, if a person is bent on eating meat, then I wouldn't worry about it...if you're trying to change a significant other's opinions on meat, it probably won't happen... as someone said above..live by example.

‘Vegetarianism’ is now a movement the world over. Many even associate it with animal rights. Indeed, a large number of people consider the consumption of meat and other non-vegetarian products to be a violation of animal rights.

1. Meat is nutritious and rich in complete protein
Non-vegetarian food is a good source of excellent protein. It contains biologically complete protein i.e. all the 8 essential amino acid that are not synthesized by the body and should be supplied in the diet. Meat also contains iron, vitamin B1 and niacin.


2. Humans have Omnivorous set of teeth

If you observe the teeth of herbivorous animals like the cow, goat and sheep, you will find something strikingly similar in all of them. All these animals have a set of flat teeth i.e. suited for herbivorous diet. If you observe the set of teeth of the carnivorous animals like the lion, tiger, or leopard, they all have a set of pointed teeth i.e. suited for a carnivorous diet. If you analyze the set of teeth of humans, you find that they have flat teeth as well as pointed teeth. Thus they have teeth suited for both herbivorous as well as carnivorous food i.e. they are omnivorous. One may ask, if Almighty God wanted humans to have only vegetables, why did He provide us also with pointed teeth? It is logical that He expected us to need and to have both vegetarian as well as non-vegetarian food.


3. Human beings can digest both vegetarian and non-vegetarian food

The digestive system of herbivorous animals can digest only vegetables. The digestive system of carnivorous animals can digest only meat. But the digestive system of humans can digest both vegetarian and non-vegetarian food. If Almighty God wanted us to have only vegetables then why did He give us a digestive system that can digest both vegetarian as well as non-vegetarian food?


4. Even plants have life
Certain religions have adopted pure vegetarianism as a dietary law because they are totally against the killing of living creatures. If a person can survive without killing any living creature, I would be the first person to adopt such a way of life. In the past people thought plants were lifeless. Today it is a universal fact that even plants have life. Thus their logic of not killing living creatures is not fulfilled even by being a pure vegetarian.


5. Even plants can feel pain
They further argue that plants cannot feel pain, therefore killing a plant is a lesser crime as compared to killing an animal. Today science tells us that even plants can feel pain. But the cry of the plant cannot be heard by the human being. This is due to the inability of the human ear to hear sounds that are not in the audible range i.e. 20 Hertz to 20,000 Hertz. Anything below and above this range cannot be heard by a human being. A dog can hear up to 40,000 Hertz. Thus there are silent dog whistles that have a frequency of more than 20,000 Hertz and less than 40,000 Hertz. These whistles are only heard by dogs and not by human beings. The dog recognizes the masters whistle and comes to the master. There was research done by a farmer in U.S.A. who invented an instrument which converted the cry of the plant so that it could be heard by human beings. He was able to realize immediately when the plant itself cried for water. Latest researches show that the plants can even feel happy and sad. It can also cry.



6. Killing a living creature with two senses less is not a lesser crime
Once a vegetarian argued his case by saying that plants only have two or three senses while the animals have five senses.

Therefore killing a plant is a lesser crime than killing an animal. Suppose your brother is born deaf and dumb and has two senses less as compared to other human beings. He becomes mature and someone murders him. Would you ask the judge to give the murderer a lesser punishment because your brother has two senses less? In fact you would say that he has killed an masoom, an innocent person, and the judge should give the murderer a greater punishment.


7. Over population of cattle

If every human being was a vegetarian, it would lead to overpopulation of cattle in the world, since their reproduction and multiplication is very swift. God in His Divine Wisdom knows how to maintain the balance of His creation appropriately. No wonder He has permitted us to have the meat of the cattle.


8. Cost of meat is reasonable since all aren’t non-vegetarians
I do not mind if some people are pure vegetarians. However they should not condemn non-vegetarians as ruthless. In fact if all Indians become non-vegetarians then the present non-vegetarians would be losers since the prices of meat would rise.



I have this set of 10 points that convience me to be anti-vegetarians. I wish to have 10 more points that suppose vegetarians equally.

. The problem is that I have been searching all around for a few (5-10) handsome and convincable reasons to convince someone to become a vegetarian, but I cannot find even a single one. Can anybody please tell me a few of some solid and convincing reasons for converting a non-veg to a vegetarian?

Perhaps it may be useful to outline which reasons you've already come across that have failed to convince you (and perhaps the reason why they have failed to convince). That way it would be easier for other people to suggest different reasons which you might not yet have thought about, and also perhaps get you to question some of the conclusions you have already made.

RichJW

ps: These two links may be of interest:
VIVA (http://www.viva.org.uk/goingveggie/index.html)

ANIMAL AID (http://www.animalaid.org.uk/veggie/index.htm)

And do you know, that to feed 100 people, you may have to kill one cow or one goat.. but at the same time, to present vegetarian food, you'll kill thousand plants, thosand living creatures.. how is that justified?

And do you know, that to feed 100 people, you may have to kill one cow or one goat.. but at the same time, to present vegetarian food, you'll kill thousand plants, thosand living creatures.. how is that justified?

Perhaps if that cow never had to eat anything during the span of its life, that arguement would hold water. What do you think cattle eat? Largely grain. It takes several pounds of grain and water to produce one pound of meat.

Did you just come here to argue with us? I assure you, you're not going to change any minds.

From reading your posts, I have a feeling that no matter how many positive reasons we will provide you for being a vegetarian, you will reject them all.

"Perhaps if that cow never had to eat anything during the span of its life, that arguement would hold water. What do you think cattle eat? Largely grain. It takes several pounds of grain and water to produce one pound of meat."

Which means "LIFE IS GETTING LOST?!?" Don't you see it? You say, we shoulden't kill poor creatures, how can we live without it? And I am not here to convience anybody or to change anybody's mind. I am here to know the opposite site of my point. I need to be proved wrong. That's, yes,that why I am here. I want to be convienced that vegetarians can comprise of logical people too.

2. Humans have Omnivorous set of teethHumans have hands to strangle other humans.

4. Even plants have life
Thus their logic of not killing living creatures is not fulfilled even by being a pure vegetarian.I wouldn't call plants "creatures". In any case, you are misrepresenting, since the issue is sentience, not merely "life".

5. Even plants can feel pain

Anyone seriously claiming that will have a hard time convincing others of anything, given that said "research" is a joke in the scientific community.


As long as one supports these instances of nonsense as "reasons", I don't think one can engage in a meaningful dialogue about veg*nism/non-veg*nism.

From reading your posts, I have a feeling that no matter how many positive reasons we will provide you for being a vegetarian, you will reject them all.

Brother, I haven't rejected even a single one, how did you presume that? :think:

Once more I'll request all of you to PLEASE be a bit more logical while you write.

Humans have hands to strangle other humans.

And that would mean...? What?

I wouldn't call plants "creatures". In any case, you are misrepresenting, since the issue is sentience, not merely "life".

Its ofcource merely life. You won't call plants creatures just because animals 'look' good to you? or that you can 'hear' their cries?

Anyone seriously claiming that will have a hard time convincing others of anything, given that said "research" is a joke in the scientific community.

If you don't know something it dosen't mean that dosen't exist.

I think it's pretty obvious that life can't exist without feeding on other life, whether it's animal, plant, fungus, whatever. Vegetarians tend to hold the belief that, because animals are thinking feeling creatures, their lives a lot more important than plant or fungal life. The "studies" that suggested plants are aware or can feel pain were debunked as pseudoscience quite a while ago.

Ethical vegetarianism isn't about causing no death-- one can't be alive without causing some death--it's about minimising one's impact and causing less suffering. A plant will not suffer if you cut it. It won't be frightened. An animal will. Even if you believe that the life of a plant has inherent value, eating only plants directly causes fewer plant deaths than eating meat for the reason I mentioned before. You can't live healthily without eating plants. You can live very healthily without eating meat. You can't live without eating anything, but at least that way you'll only be causing one death.

Here's an article about plant pain. (http://http://tabish.freeshell.org/animals/plantpain.html)

And another about the specific guy who carried out that "research" (http://skepdic.com/plants.html)

[COLOR="mediumturquoise"]If you don't know something it dosen't mean that dosen't exist.

doesn't mean it does exist either. how's that for logic?

And that would mean...? What?For you, who are inferring ethical views from human body parts, I guess it would mean that strangling humans is acceptable.

Its ofcource merely life.Plants are merely life. The ethics behind veg*nism, on the other hand, is quite often not about "merely life". To argue as if it would be, would be the strawman fallacy.

You won't call plants creatures just because animals 'look' good to you?Nope.

or that you can 'hear' their cries?I don't think plants are able to do anything that should be called "crying".

If you don't know something it dosen't mean that dosen't exist.That's true. What is also true is that you should do better fact-checking.

And do you know, that to feed 100 people, you may have to kill one cow or one goat.. but at the same time, to present vegetarian food, you'll kill thousand plants, thosand living creatures.. how is that justified?


:think:

Its been estimated that it takes 12-16 pounds of grain and 2500-3000 gallons of water to produce 1 pound of beef.

More plant-life is being "killed" (Thats the word you used) during and for meat production so if you think you'll avoid "killing" plants by eating meat you'd be dead wrong.
Because it takes thousands of pounds of grain to equal one cow it makes more sense to just eat the grain yourself, rather than wasting it on trying to fatten up cows just so we can eat them.

Vegetarianism and veganism is about reducing suffering, and either way plant-life is going to be eaten, but the cruelty,slaughtering and consumption of these intelligent creatures is Unnecessary.

[QUOTE=TheNonVeg]And that would mean...? What?

The message posted by Sevenseas that "Humans have hands to strangle other humans" suggests that might doesn't make right (as most religious leaders go to extreme lengths to teach). Just because you can do something, doesn't mean you ought to do it.

Beyond this post, I think many people here may be interested in the following book chapter, which addresses many of the points here (and others beside): 'The Immorality of Eating Meat' by Mylan Engel (found in Louis P. Pokman ed. (2000) The Moral Life: An Introductory Reader in Ethics and Literature (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0195128443/sr=1-3/qid=1138809525/ref=pd_bbs_3/103-8157445-1252660?%5Fencoding=UTF8)

Anyway, there are some notes on that chapter (which can be read in their own right) that I found particularly interesting:Notes on The Immorality of Eating Meat (http://www.mc.maricopa.edu/~yount/text/engel.pdf)

As an extract from The Notes (page 5)

OBJECTION 3: “Perhaps Plants Feel Pain”

"Engel replies: “Perhaps, but you don’t believe they do. You walk on grass, mow your lawn, and trim your hedges without any concern that you might be causing plants pain. But you would never walk on your dog or trim your dog’s legs, because you are certain that doing so would cause your dog terrible pain” (p. 879). Also, I would add that Engel could have argued that... it is a matter of degree, and since you want to minimize suffering, even if plants do feel pain, it is better to cause pain to plants than to animals, where the suffering is much more obvious."

RichJW

‘Vegetarianism’ is now a movement the world over. Many even associate it with animal rights. Indeed, a large number of people consider the consumption of meat and other non-vegetarian products to be a violation of animal rights.

I have this set of 10 points that convience me to be anti-vegetarians. I wish to have 10 more points that suppose vegetarians equally.
Well... these are only 8 points. But to answer your question: vegetarianism is a good idea because it helps avoid harm to animals, and because it is healthy. (ONE QUALIFICATION about health: I don't know if one must eliminate all meat from their diet to be healthy, or just limit their meat eating. And of course, if someone eats vegetarian junk food, they won;t be any healthier than a meat eater.)

1. Meat is nutritious and rich in complete protein
Non-vegetarian food is a good source of excellent protein. It contains biologically complete protein i.e. all the 8 essential amino acid that are not synthesized by the body and should be supplied in the diet. Meat also contains iron, vitamin B1 and niacin. Meat is still not necessary, at least not for everyone. "Complete" is actually a relative term here. Most proteins have at least some of all 8 amino acids, and can be used at least 30% efficiently by the body. When different proteins are eaten over a day, they often fill in each other's shortfalls. Even meat is not used 100% efficiently.


2. Humans have Omnivorous set of teeth

If you observe the teeth of herbivorous animals like the cow, goat and sheep, you will find something strikingly similar in all of them. All these animals have a set of flat teeth i.e. suited for herbivorous diet. If you observe the set of teeth of the carnivorous animals like the lion, tiger, or leopard, they all have a set of pointed teeth i.e. suited for a carnivorous diet. If you analyze the set of teeth of humans, you find that they have flat teeth as well as pointed teeth. Thus they have teeth suited for both herbivorous as well as carnivorous food i.e. they are omnivorous. One may ask, if Almighty God wanted humans to have only vegetables, why did He provide us also with pointed teeth? It is logical that He expected us to need and to have both vegetarian as well as non-vegetarian food.


3. Human beings can digest both vegetarian and non-vegetarian food

The digestive system of herbivorous animals can digest only vegetables. The digestive system of carnivorous animals can digest only meat. But the digestive system of humans can digest both vegetarian and non-vegetarian food. If Almighty God wanted us to have only vegetables then why did He give us a digestive system that can digest both vegetarian as well as non-vegetarian food?The same Almighty God who designed us also gave us the power to choose what to eat, didn't He?


4. Even plants have life
Certain religions have adopted pure vegetarianism as a dietary law because they are totally against the killing of living creatures. If a person can survive without killing any living creature, I would be the first person to adopt such a way of life. In the past people thought plants were lifeless. Today it is a universal fact that even plants have life. Thus their logic of not killing living creatures is not fulfilled even by being a pure vegetarian.


5. Even plants can feel pain
They further argue that plants cannot feel pain, therefore killing a plant is a lesser crime as compared to killing an animal. Today science tells us that even plants can feel pain. But the cry of the plant cannot be heard by the human being. This is due to the inability of the human ear to hear sounds that are not in the audible range i.e. 20 Hertz to 20,000 Hertz. Anything below and above this range cannot be heard by a human being. A dog can hear up to 40,000 Hertz. Thus there are silent dog whistles that have a frequency of more than 20,000 Hertz and less than 40,000 Hertz. These whistles are only heard by dogs and not by human beings. The dog recognizes the masters whistle and comes to the master. There was research done by a farmer in U.S.A. who invented an instrument which converted the cry of the plant so that it could be heard by human beings. He was able to realize immediately when the plant itself cried for water. Latest researches show that the plants can even feel happy and sad. It can also cry.



6. Killing a living creature with two senses less is not a lesser crime
Once a vegetarian argued his case by saying that plants only have two or three senses while the animals have five senses.

Therefore killing a plant is a lesser crime than killing an animal. Suppose your brother is born deaf and dumb and has two senses less as compared to other human beings. He becomes mature and someone murders him. Would you ask the judge to give the murderer a lesser punishment because your brother has two senses less? In fact you would say that he has killed an masoom, an innocent person, and the judge should give the murderer a greater punishment.I don't know who argued that plants have fewer senses than animals, but the fact is they don't have ANY. Are you familiar with animal anatomy and physiology? The nerves and sense organs animals sense with do not exist in plants.


7. Over population of cattle

If every human being was a vegetarian, it would lead to overpopulation of cattle in the world, since their reproduction and multiplication is very swift. God in His Divine Wisdom knows how to maintain the balance of His creation appropriately. No wonder He has permitted us to have the meat of the cattle.


8. Cost of meat is reasonable since all aren’t non-vegetarians
I do not mind if some people are pure vegetarians. However they should not condemn non-vegetarians as ruthless. In fact if all Indians become non-vegetarians then the present non-vegetarians would be losers since the prices of meat would rise. No. Humans control the breeding of their cattle. As for price... yes, increasing the demand for something can raise its price. What of it?

The plant & animal senses thing is an idea associated with Jainism. (Which of course makes it odd to mention it in this kind of context.)