Alright...I feel a little stupid posting about this problem, but I haven't been able to solve it on my own.

I've had a lot of anger buried inside me for a while now because there is someone I haven't been able to forgive. I won't go into the whole story,but basically I used to consider him to be a very good friend, until I realized he was extremely manipulative. He also became increasingly verbally abusive, to the point where he would have these random angry outbursts where he would call me a bitch, slut, stuck-up, cold, etc. Some of these insults were hurled at me simply because I requested that we speak to each other as mature adults. When I asked him to stop treating me this way, he just insulted me some more.*sigh*

ANYWAY, I cut off contact with him about 6 months ago. But the problem is that I have a very hard time forgiving people who will not admit to being wrong (he never apologized to me, and never will). Just yesterday I was on the verge of finally forgiving him, deciding he was a human being too and maybe he was just too immature to realize what an ass he was being...but then I found out through a VERY reliable source that he had basically raped some other girl, and saw nothing wrong with it. I say 'basically' because she wasn't drunk enough to be passed out...but she could not walk on her own, and she is also underage. Which is none of my business, but I didn't ask to know this.

So obviously hearing all of that made me feel sick and now I don't think I can give my forgiveness to someone who is a borderline rapist (not to mention a verbally abusive person). So ummm I don't know if anyone can give me advice on this, I guess I just needed to vent. Although I do need advice on what to do about my friend who tells me stuff like this in the first place. I don't want to hear these things. I think it is necessary for my mental health, for me to just forget that this person exists. I've asked my friend several times that I dont want to talk about the subject because it upsets me, but he'll bring it up anyway. Is he just not a good friend? Or could he just not understand why it upsets me? Or should I threaten to end the friendship if he continues to constantly talk about this toxic person? I consider him a good friend and don't want to lose the friendship, but I think I may need to...hearing about my ex-friend taking advantage of drunk girls (this is not the first time) doesn't exactly help to ease my anger. I'm really tired of being angry...so any advice would be much appreciated! sorry this was confusing..tell me if you need clarification

sounds like you had the solution to the first problem six months ago. sever all contact with this person and do not forgive him. verbally abusive relationships are just as bad as physically abusive, except you can't press charges.

as for the other problem, is ignorance really bliss? if i were you, i would tell every female you know about this situation and advise them to stay away from this guy. regardless of how drunk a girl is, if she doesn't want sex, you DON'T have it. and as for her being underage, i don't know the age difference, but if it is illegal, it is illegal for a reason and this is another reason he wouldn't be a trustworthy person.

First off, good for you to get out of a situation which sounds quite bad.

However, and there is always a however, it sounds like there are more issues here than you are admitting.

You are making forgiveness the currency here and trying to buy, what?

Righteousness? You have already proven yourself the bigger person than he by walking away.

Justice? Why do you feel like you need to punish him by not giving him a forgiveness cookie?

Self-Affirmation? Do you need to forgive him to forgive yourself? Do you need him to admit he's wrong for you to feel right?

You are making forgiveness seem important, and this guy does not care for your forgiveness. Save it for someone who matters.

Why are you so interested in hearing anything from a reliable source about him? Leverage? It sounds to me like the manipulation has gone two ways here, and until you clear up your own issues, leave his alone.

I also think it is wrong to use the 'R' word unless you have actual evidence, like a first-hand account and a witness or pictures because those accusations and allegations have very serious consequences for both the alleged and the accuser, even if they are untrue.

my exboyfriend was almost the exact same person as you describe. verbally abusive of me, disrespectful, addicted to illegal substances. he told me he loved me because he wanted me to "indulge" in illegal substances with me, and he would pressure me into having sex EVERY TIME we were alone...

i have severed contact with him. i don't know how to forgive him yet, but i have room in my being for forgiveness. right now i just ask that g-d bless him and help him to see where he is being wrong... /hugs.

First off, good for you to get out of a situation which sounds quite bad.

However, and there is always a however, it sounds like there are more issues here than you are admitting.

You are making forgiveness the currency here and trying to buy, what?

Righteousness? You have already proven yourself the bigger person than he by walking away.

Justice? Why do you feel like you need to punish him by not giving him a forgiveness cookie?

Self-Affirmation? Do you need to forgive him to forgive yourself? Do you need him to admit he's wrong for you to feel right?

You are making forgiveness seem important, and this guy does not care for your forgiveness. Save it for someone who matters.

Why are you so interested in hearing anything from a reliable source about him? Leverage? It sounds to me like the manipulation has gone two ways here, and until you clear up your own issues, leave his alone.

I also think it is wrong to use the 'R' word unless you have actual evidence, like a first-hand account and a witness or pictures because those accusations and allegations have very serious consequences for both the alleged and the accuser, even if they are untrue.

I think she's more interested in forgiving him for her own sake, not his. By forgiving someone you let go of them and all the anger you have for them which negatively affects oneself. She just wants to let this go, don't make it more complicated than it is.

I also think it is wrong to use the 'R' word unless you have actual evidence, like a first-hand account and a witness or pictures because those accusations and allegations have very serious consequences for both the alleged and the accuser, even if they are untrue.

I'm sorry, but I think the above statement is complete BS. Most people who rape others get away with it even if there is evidence. Who is going to have witnesses or PICTURES from a rape if it was only the rapist and the victim alone? :stinkeye: To me, what you just said is pretty much saying "well if someone says she was raped, you shouldn't believe her AT ALL unless she has DNA evidence and video footage!" I agree that people should not falsely accuse others of rape- I know people who have done this, and it makes me sick that they would make up something that serioud just to get attention. But saying that you need a witness or pictures is ridiculous. Most rape victims are too traumatized and embarassed to come forward and get help as it is, and attitudes like this don't help. :spew:

Sorry, bit of a touchy subject there. :o

I'm sorry, but I think the above statement is complete BS. Most people who rape others get away with it even if there is evidence. Who is going to have witnesses or PICTURES from a rape if it was only the rapist and the victim alone? :stinkeye: To me, what you just said is pretty much saying "well if someone says she was raped, you shouldn't believe her AT ALL unless she has DNA evidence and video footage!" I agree that people should not falsely accuse others of rape- I know people who have done this, and it makes me sick that they would make up something that serioud just to get attention. But saying that you need a witness or pictures is ridiculous. Most rape victims are too traumatized and embarassed to come forward and get help as it is, and attitudes like this don't help. :spew:

Sorry, bit of a touchy subject there. :o

:yes:

For the record, having sex with someone who is under the influence of alcohol is rape. That simple.

Is he just not a good friend?

Possibly. Sounds like he just likes to gossip.

Or could he just not understand why it upsets me? Or should I threaten to end the friendship if he continues to constantly talk about this toxic person?

You said you've told him how much it bothers you but are you sure he understands just how much? I'd tell him that if it continues you'll no longer be able to see him. Make it very clear. From that point on it's up to him. If he's your friend he won't continue doing something he knows upsets/hurts you.

Starblossom, I think it might take you a little more time than you have allowed yourself to forgive him. 6 months is not a very long time- you may need a bit longer to let all your hurt pass. In order to forgive him, you don't actually have to say anything to him- you can just forgive him in your heart. It would probably be best that you keep your distance from him, because he does sound like a very uncaring and abusive person- not a healthy person to be around. But just because you don't condone his actions doesn't mean you can't forgive him. When it feels right, just let go of the anger, forgive him in your heart, and continue living your life without him. If it helps to have sympathy for him, you may want to consider that there must have been something really emotionally painful in his past that made him end up this F***ed up.

As for your friend that keeps mentioning him, maybe you need to have a talk with this person. Say something like, "I know you are still friends with X, but his manipulative and abusive actions really upset me. I am trying to move past the hurt he has caused me, so I would appreciate it if you wouldn't mention him while you're around me." If that doesn't work, you may just have to cut ties with this person too, for your own sake.

Good luck, I hope you can find some friends who can appreciate you! :hug: :hug: :hug:

I think she's more interested in forgiving him for her own sake, not his. By forgiving someone you let go of them and all the anger you have for them which negatively affects oneself. She just wants to let this go, don't make it more complicated than it is.

Yes, that's exactly it. I just want to let go of my anger so I can be at peace, and forgiveness seems like the necessary route I need to take if I want that to happen.

To everyone else, thanks, I feel so much better now! :) I guess I just needed to vent. But to clarify, he never laid a hand on me....although it sort of scares me to think about what things he may have done if I'd stayed with him longer (we dated very briefly). I think he lacks common sense and empathy and respect for other people, but at the same time he is also quite charismatic, which makes him capable of just about anything, I think. And I don't know for sure if he raped anyone, there have just been many times throughout the year where his roommate has told me about him picking up 1st year students from campus that are drunk (girls he'd just met), and then taking them home with him...obviously I do not know what happens behind closed doors, but he is walking a thin boundary. And I just think that's very scary....and Sketchy, I am not going to report him to anyone....it is not my place.... but I do think it's a good idea for me to warn my girlfriends about him. He asked out one of my good friends, and both myself and another friend of mine warned her about him.

Hmm as for my friend, I will try talking to him. I think he mostly brings him up because he lives with him and is having problems, so he'll complain about him a lot. I think it's definately reasonable for him to stop telling me about these personal things that I am better off not knowing, though....I will talk to him about it again, for sure.

Why are you so interested in hearing anything from a reliable source about him? Leverage? It sounds to me like the manipulation has gone two ways here, and until you clear up your own issues, leave his alone.

I think you misunderstood the part of my post where I said that I did not ask anyone to tell me this. I don't ask questions about him, and I have told my friend several times that I don't want to hear about him.

, like a first-hand account and a witness or pictures because those accusations and allegations have very serious consequences for both the alleged and the accuser, even if they are untrue.

I don't recall ever saying that I plan to report him to an authority figure or making accusations and allegations against him.

:hug: I can feel what you're going through, it's hard carrying a burden like that with you. I get mad with people who won't admit that they're wrong, too, but it's not healthy not letting go.

It's good that you realise the anger you have within you and it's important to give it a proper outlet. Forgiveness isn't always easy, but it sounds like you're on your way to come to terms with this part of your life and finally put it behind you. I can recommend a book that's helped me dealing with similar situations, by clarifying the way emotions work and by suggesting helpful techniques with coping: Louise Hay, You Can Heal Your Life ( http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0937611018/qid=1138423747/sr=1-2/ref=sr_1_2/102-7921092-2796939?s=books&v=glance&n=283155)

Also, I'd personally advise not to see him before you've sorted out your issues with him first. Of course, that can be a long process, but you've already made the most important step by realising your need to release yourself from all this. I wish you the best of luck. Feel free to PM me if you want to talk more about letting-go techniques.

Why do you feel you need to see this chap again?. From reading your original post you appear to have very little self esteem and low confidence in yourself?. You seem to be upset by what he said (understandably) and yet you want to keep in contact with him. You have to ask yourself why?.

If he has raped and been abusive to others, you should back off completely. You cannot report him for rape if it is hearsay. Also for our own sake do not get involved anymore with him and rumours that surround him.

Get yourself away from his company completely. DONT be a victim.

Most rape victims are too traumatized and embarassed to come forward and get help as it is, and attitudes like this don't help. :spew:

Sorry, bit of a touchy subject there. :o

Well, touchy subject for me too, and trust me the trauma and embarassment of being falsely accused of something like that is the same or worse. Imagine being shunned by friends and neighbours, employers, and even family, but never getting a chance to tell your side. Imagine being banned from certain places and threatened with physical violence, imagine people calling your house incessantly or driving by and yelling things like 'Rapist' and 'Molester', and you never did either. Having your car and home defaced and sundry other abuses heaped upon you. Imagine being suspended from school, threatened with expulsion losing a whole semester almost not getting your Degree. Imagine all this happens because a young lady decided to throw the 'R' word around with no evidence, no proof, and no rape, nothing more than a chip on her shoulder. I know of at least three different guys, guys I know and trust, having their lives ruined for a time because of false accusations.

I personally feel that rape is very serious, as such, if you KNOW that something like that has happened it is your responsibility to report it to your local constabulary. If you are not 100% confident don't even bring it up on an anonymous board, because it can really screw up lives.

But Starblossom, to the matter at hand, I said before, good for you to get away. Now get away.

If your friend keeps talking about the other, walk away. If he follows tell him you can't be friends anymore. It's really up to you to get over this situation, because you're not getting help (it sounds) from anyone else.

Get yourself away from his company completely. DONT be a victim.

Good call, tails.

That's what I was trying to get at.

Why do you feel you need to see this chap again?. From reading your original post you appear to have very little self esteem and low confidence in yourself?. You seem to be upset by what he said (understandably) and yet you want to keep in contact with him. You have to ask yourself why?.

:confused: Huh? Thanks for your concern, but I do NOT want to see him again. As I said already, I completely cut off contact with him 6 months ago and I have no intention to see him again. The only link I still have with him is a mutual friend, and I am thinking of cutting off that link, because my friend will not stop talking to me about him. That's basically what my post was about, sorry if I wasn't very clear on that.

ETA: I even deleted my blog specifically so he couldn't read it, blocked/deleted him from MSN and asked my friends not to tell him my phone number or where I live, if he happens to ask them. He sent me an email a little while ago and I deleted it without replying. This is the first time I've really stood up to someone. It feels pretty good. I'm just a little upset that I may lose a friend over it :(

I think the way to forgive rather than to dwell on your anger is to recognize that this guy's behavior represents some kind of weakness that he won't be able to overcome unless people call him on his bad behavior. So in cutting off contact with him you are sending him this message--your behavior is unacceptable, you won't be able to retain personal relationships until you adopt healthier attitudes and treat people with respect. If he doesn't get that message (and hopefully others than you have sent it as well) then he's someone I would pity rather than be angry with. There's no way he will live a fulfilling life until he examines and changes his own behavior. Rapists and abusers are generally not happy people.

I'm not sure I understand what forgiveness means to the OP. To not have bad opinions of this person? Well, then I don't think that's healthy. If forgiveness means, "My negative opinion of you no longer controls me, I no longer feel the need to get revenge/justice/etc." then that's something you do for yourself, and it takes time.

Do you feel guilty for cutting him off? Do you feel guilty for having classified someone in a negative way?

Everybody has some good in them, even serial killers and torturers, even Hitler. But we shouldn't feel bad for having bad opinions of people or their actions. As far as having sympathy for him, if you don't that's ok, too. His reasons for being the way he is is for him and his conscience to work out.

As long as you keep thinking about this person, he is still controlling you. Maybe it is best to take a break from your friend who talks of him.

As for rumors that he's abusing women, perhaps you should speak to an adult advisor at your school, don't even mention a name. Perhaps they can raise awareness among the women at his school about date rape and staying safe. If you have heard about him possibly assaulting a minor, I think you should tell someone, because abuse of a minor is everyone's business.

Starblossom there is a saying that I think is great.

“Holding a grudge is like letting your enemy live in your head rent free”.

With that said it sounds like this person was a real jerk, good for you for getting them physically out of your live. You have reasons to be angry but at this point the anger is only hurting you.

Mazikeen: Thanks, I will check out the book!

Eggplant: Yes that's a very good point. I actually was beginning to pity him, until I heard all these things about him. Oh yeah, and I think that he might be getting the message, slowly but surely. I heard about some other girl who completely freaked out at him and told him to stay the hell away from her (basically exactly what I had said to him!). He's pretty dense though, so who knows if it'll ever sink in.

Thalia and Magnus: You've both hit the nail on the head. I realize that because of my anger, he still has some control over me. I want him out of my head!

I feel like some people here are misunderstanding my OP and assuming that when I say I want forgiveness, that I am saying that I want him back in my life and for us to be the best of friends again. That's NOT what I want. That would not be healthy. I just want to forgive him in my heart, so I can be at peace. I don't even plan to ever say "I forgive you" to him simply because he will twist its meaning.

Anyway, I will see how things go. I might be going to church tomorrow morning in the hopes that it will help somehow. if my family ever finds out, they won't believe it! lol

Try journaling your feelings about him, or talking it over with trusted, trustworthy friends, or both. That can help you work through the anger and let it go. I was mad at a youth pastor who emotionally abused us for 4 years because I didn't talk about it when I realized what a jerk he was. Healing happens in community, not in isolation.

forgive, forget, move on. There's no need to worry yourself with ideosynchrocies...if you feel worse by knowing anything, tell those around you that you'd be better off not talking about him. There's nothing you can do about a rape that's in the past, and there's not much of anything to do to stop him in the future. You're way removed from the situation. Best bets: forgetting and moving on...keeping away from those that don't have the decency to respect your ideas to refrain from mentioning him...turn him into that bad word that you know not to say.

ideas of hell: if one thinks they are going to hell for something they have done wrong, that shame haunts them...same as if you think about him and talk about him, no matter what...every time you talk about him, you'll be "haunted" for X amount of time just for thinking about it. (becoming your own hell here on earth, and it's unnecessary and unwanted).

Moving on, and informing your friends that you are moving on, gives everyone an idea that you would be much better off if this guy is not in your mind...forgive him for what he's done to you. It's horrible, but then, also...forgive yourself for allowing yourself to put up with it. Remember....history repeats itself...just move on and remember the warning signs and stay true to yourself.

good luck ^_^

Well, touchy subject for me too, and trust me the trauma and embarassment of being falsely accused of something like that is the same or worse. Imagine being shunned by friends and neighbours, employers, and even family, but never getting a chance to tell your side. Imagine being banned from certain places and threatened with physical violence, imagine people calling your house incessantly or driving by and yelling things like 'Rapist' and 'Molester', and you never did either. Having your car and home defaced and sundry other abuses heaped upon you. Imagine being suspended from school, threatened with expulsion losing a whole semester almost not getting your Degree. Imagine all this happens because a young lady decided to throw the 'R' word around with no evidence, no proof, and no rape, nothing more than a chip on her shoulder. I know of at least three different guys, guys I know and trust, having their lives ruined for a time because of false accusations.

I personally feel that rape is very serious, as such, if you KNOW that something like that has happened it is your responsibility to report it to your local constabulary. If you are not 100% confident don't even bring it up on an anonymous board, because it can really screw up lives.


I agree that it is a serious accusation and not something that should be thrown around falsely. As I said in my last post, I know people who have falsely accused people of raping them, and I think it's sick and horrible to ruin someone else's reputation just t get attention! But I also know people who have been raped and no one took them seriously because they thought they were lying, and they ended up either being screwed up for years or killing themselves over it. It shouldn't require "100% Proof" because in most cases there is not ANY proof when a rape has occurred. Most rapes are committed by someone the victim knows, and usually with no witnesses around. In most cases it's pretty much one person's word against another's, so how is there supposed to be undeniable proof? There isn't. It sucks, but that's the way it is.

What it comes down to is that people should be honest! People should never falsely accuse people of things, because it could ruin their lives. But people should also not disbelieve a young woman who says she got raped just because she could be lying.

In any case, Starblossom did not mention any names and did not say that she was going to the authorities, so that's not a concern for her to mention it here.

OK I shall stop hijacking the thread now.

i have proof that I was raped, but on the contrary, I was in a relationship with the guy, so nobody believed it, and I had orders to be shipped out, so I didn't tell anyone when it happened, cuz it would've screwed up my naval orders with a court martial to contend with to testify against my ex. Yeah, so my proof? My daughter.

Now this ass is trying for full custody.

I just say if it didn't happen to you, it's not your business and there's nothing one can do to change poorly addressed decisions. Rapes typically happen in the hands of those we care for most (stats I've read have said anywhere from 60-80% of those rape casea were by people close to the rape victims, making it very unbelievable in a court of law or otherwise.)....

Regardless, forgive him for what he did to you, forgive yourself for allowing it..forget the entire experience but take the learning foundations so you see the warning signs. I haven't had a rape happen since then, as my voice tends to become a bit more threatening regarding it now to any men I've been in relationships with. A guy knows when the ice is wearing thin with me now.

I also tend to be more obvious on nights I am seriously not interested in having sex, before any shirts have come off or whatnot. Lessons learned, and very well.

Forgiveness is a decision. The feeling will come later. In the meantime you stay safely away from that sleeze. When you forgive, it never means you have to go back for round 2 or 3 with them.

Forgiveness isn't for his good. He isn't worth it. It is for you, so you won't be his emotional prisoner. A comedian said ," Why carry a grudge. While you're carrying a grudge, they are out dancing."