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Ludi
01-23-06, 09:42 PM
"Current world events are being played out against a setting of resource depletion and other environmental problems which are not recognized by most people, nor even acknowledged by many of the world’s decision makers. In fact, there is a concerted effort by many corporations and economists to dismiss these problems as nonexistent. Corporations choose to dismiss these problems because they do not want to admit their own culpability, and because the solution to these problems will prevent them from carrying out business as usual. Economists refuse to face these problems because to do so they must admit that their pet economic models are deeply flawed, and because these problems point up the unsustainable madness of capitalism with its market mechanisms. Yet the scientific community reached a consensus over the last decade and has attempted to sound the warning bell."

http://people.lulu.com/blogs/view_post.php?post_id=17221

Ludi
01-24-06, 10:54 PM
Not that anyone gives a rat's behind....

Indian Summer
01-26-06, 12:19 PM
I think the best solution to any such problem is to hire a researcher to write a scientific report that rejects the existence of the problem. Or in the very least introduces some doubt or confusion. If necessary, fake the data. Then make a tabloid version for the media. This will get a lot more attention than anything the boring UN committees on global warming and other boring / whining people come up with.

For more good ideas, ask Dogbert.

Sketchy
01-26-06, 06:58 PM
I think that you misunderstand the idea behind economics. Of all the sciences economics is the only one dedicated to the study of how we can and do allocate scarce resources.

Economics is based on scarcity, which could be the environment, air, water, animals, whatever you want to make it. Blaming economics for environmental destruction is about as logical as blaming math for serial killers.

Ludi
01-26-06, 10:08 PM
I think that you misunderstand the idea behind economics. Of all the sciences economics is the only one dedicated to the study of how we can and do allocate scarce resources.


Who is "you"? You mean Dale Allen Pfeiffer?

Sketchy
01-27-06, 05:14 AM
Sure, Dale Allen Pfeiffer, and any other crank-pot that buys into this new evil economics theory being bandied about of late in environmental circles.

I agree that Capitalism and Consumerism are disgusting practices, but I am tired of people looking at economics as the third axis of evil.

I can't understand why all of the environmentalists I have read/talked to lately seem to think that by blaming something that we are making any difference. David Suzuki himself went on a rant about economics and the economy and he came off sounding like a crazy old man. We already know what the problems are, we need to start making a difference, not looking for scapegoats, that's how we got here in the first place.

Ludi
01-27-06, 08:28 AM
I'm not sure they're necessarily blaming economics so much as blaming, or at least pointing one accusing finger at, economists, many of whom seem to be cornucopians.

But I certainly agree with you, Sketchy, blaming others is pointless; we need to stop blaming and get busy dealing with the problems.

Sketchy
01-27-06, 03:40 PM
How do you deal with the problems?

I have given up on automobiles, they are evil.
I have reduced my purchasing to food and utilities, and sometimes liquor.
I recycle for other people who are too lazy or inept to do it.

I just don't know how to proceed, I used to belong to an environmental group but they did nothing but pat themselves on the back and complain about other peoples bad habits.

I had an idea for next Christmas, I am going to take all of the discarded Christmas trees from my complex, line them up against a wall, and put a sign on each that says "YOU KILLED ME". I will, of course take pictures, but that's a whole year away and I want to do something more right now.

Ludi
01-27-06, 06:54 PM
I'm (rather slowly I admit) transitioning to a more sustainable way of life. I still drive, but I work at home. I'm learning to grow my own food, because I think our agricultural system is a nightmare. I'm working on rehabilitating my 20 acres of overgrazed ranch land, trying to reintroduce native plants, and encouraging the native animals. I'm not having children. I buy used clothing (except underwear and shoes). I have plans to set up my household on photovoltaic and passive solar (again, rather slowly, because it's expensive). I'm working on a small market garden to sell produce to my neighbors. And stuff like that....

Sketchy
01-28-06, 07:12 PM
Well that's a heckuva lot more than most people, even most people on VB.

Good on ya.

What about geothermal, it's way more efficient than passive solar and you might qualify for home reno grants from the governement, depending on where you are. The initial cost is ridiculous but it is basically a one time cost and then you have free heat and hot water forever. More photovoltaic or some wind power and you can go completely off the grid.

Ludi
01-28-06, 10:17 PM
We're not in a good location for geothermal because of our soils (or rather, our rocks), and even if we were, we couldn't afford it....

Ludi
01-31-06, 01:59 PM
Imminent Peril Part 2

http://people.lulu.com/blogs/view_post.php?post_id=17425