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View Full Version : I want to have a organic veggitable farm.
qingchen
01-15-06, 10:33 PM
I want to have a organic veggitable farm. Is everybody know how to plant organic veggitable or maybe a certain internet that I can learn some?
soilman
01-21-06, 04:47 PM
I don't know of any place where you can get all the information you need, in one place. If you want' to grow using contemporary non-organic methods, in the United States, Cooperative Extension is a wonderful source of information. But I don't know what the deal is in Canada. In the US, "cooperative extension" is a cooperative venture between university agricultural schools, and government. In New York State, for example, Cornell University, in Ithaca NY, provides farmers and gardeners throught the state with lots of info, and personal help, via the government office called "cooperative extension." There is an office in every agricultural area. They will supply some info about organic methods, but are mostly where you go if you want scientifically verified facts rather than traditional handed-down info that hasn't been investigated scientifically. One of their main functions is to investigate various traditional methods to see how they stand up scientifically. They will have tips on how to minimize pesticide use -- but not how to eliminate it. They will have lots of info on cover crops, green manures, and composting. They are also a fairly good source of info which seeds are best adapted for the particular geographical area you are in. But I think word of mouth from local gardeners may be better. Local nurseries are often not a good source of such info. It may depend on the individual salesperson you talk to. Choosing the best cultivar for your area and needs seems to give you more usefulness per unit of labor, than any other gardening task you can do. This is more important with some plants than others. Regional mail-order seed suppliers are usually better than buying seeds in local stores
I suspect Canada has something similar to Cooperative Extension, but I'm not sure what it is called.
Good seed companies, near you, are Johnny's Selected seeds in Maine, and Harris Seeds of Rochester New york. These are actually nearer to you than they are to me, and specialize in your climate, yet I use them because they are "local" to me -- on Long Island, New York. They should actually be closer to your climate, too, than my climate.
soilman
01-21-06, 04:51 PM
By the way, I am pretty good at growing edamame (soybeans eaten like a vegetable, before they dehydrate). That is one of the vegetables I specialize in. Also melons (watermelon and canteloupe), and poppies and poppy seeds, and sweet corn. So if you have any q's about these, I would be glad to help. Melons aren't attacked by insects where I live and I can easily grow them without using insecticides, however I don't think it is possible, at least where I live, to grow melons without using industrially-produced fungicides. Both poppies and edamame, are also known for not being troubled too much, by insects. Sweet corn is very troubled by various insects, especially borers (caterpillars that bore into the cob, and can sometimes eat 1/2 or more of the cob). I would not be able to grow sweet corn organically. In bad years, despite attempts at crop rotation and skipping years, borers can eat 1/3 to 1/2 of 80% of the ears. I have found Bacillus thuringiensis to be useless for controlling them. Of course it is possible you may not have a problem in your area. But I don't think i could grow them organically in my area. Also, they need a huge amount of nitrogen which is hard to get from organic sources in the amount they need.
soilman
01-21-06, 05:37 PM
Now here is another reason why I don't like the "organic" ideology. Pyrethrin, which certified organic growers may legally use, because it is "natural" -- derived from plant sources, is not nearly as good for killing corn borers as synthetic pyrethroids such as permethrin. Permethrin is made from coal or oil or something, I'm not sure -- so it is not legal for use on certified organic corn. But chemically it is very similar. It does last longer in the envrionement. Nicotine is legal for organic use. However I'd much rather have traces of pyrethroids in my food, natural or synthetic, than traces of nicotine. Nicotine does break down fast in the environment, but traces in my food -- it can make you feel quite ill. Espeically small children. It can give them a nasty nasty headache. Trace amounts in food -- a single item -- could cause brain damage to infants. It is extremely extemely toxic. Pyrethroids, natural or synthetic, in trace amounts as might be found in sprayed food, seem unlikely to cause any harm to infants anywhere near comparable to that done by nicotine.
soilman
01-21-06, 05:47 PM
In short, reliance on cover crops, green manures, and compost, and miniumu use of industrially produced plant food and minimum use of pesticides, I am all for. Adhering to a certified organic ideology, putting ideology ahead of scientific knowledge -- I don't wish to do. Thus I won't have a garden that is considered organic. Yet in my opinion food from it will be safer and more nutritious than that from most organic gardens. Why? for one, I avoid animal excrement and its disease-transmission and heavy-metal accumulation.
NotSerious
02-03-06, 03:09 AM
I do agree with soilman on the manure thing...you don't need it. Vegetable compost works great.
Having said that...I do think the best way to garden organically is to simply get ouside and do it. Don't get into the whys and wherefores...just put the seeds in and watch them come up. They'll tell you what they need. I started gardening intensively after getting really irritated with all gardening books and their 'methods.' Once I threw all my books out, I had a much more vital garden. I dump about 1500 ladybugs in my garden every spring, and I make sure I check every plant before I prune so I don't accidentally kill any preying matids. I sprinkle cayenne pepper around the beds to keep the neighborhood cats out. That's about it, other than water, sun, and plant compost. I have more produce than I know what to do with.
Oh! And ask a local nurseryperson for organic gardening tips. They usually have the best ideas and most of them, I've found, are happy to share them with other organic gardeners.
soilman
02-03-06, 11:32 AM
While I agree that there are lots of books with "make work" superstitious things for you to do, that you can throw out, I can't agree that the plants will tell you what to do. The only do that after you have both gathered a bit of scientific knowledge about what they require, and seen what happens over the years in response to lack or abundance of such things.
I don't see cayenne pepper as being economically feasible as a cat deterrent. I think wire fencing around a garden with barbs on top that cats can't get over, would be way cheaper than just a few weeks of applying cayenne pepper. Cayenne pepper degrades rapidly, and you would need hundreds of dollars worth each season, for a garden only about 400 feet square, to do the slightest good. To get the quantity you need by growing your own, you would have to plant more area in cayenne pepper, than in anything else.
NotSerious
02-08-06, 07:23 PM
Actually, Soilman, the cayenne pepper solution is cheap. I buy it in 6 oz. containers at the dollar store. I spend about three bucks a month on it. I sprinkle it around the beds once a week, and the cats hate it, and I have zero problems now. Putting wire with barbs on the top would only guarantee that I still have cats in my garden AND that the cats would probably get hurt by the barbs.
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