I found this late last night and I am so angry I had to share it with all of you. Does anyone have any suggestions fight against this woman and others getting their children taken away for this?
Porn???? I think not.... (http://www.dallasobserver.com/issues/2003-04-17/feature2.html/1/index.html)

Also, here's another little piece of news that may make you angry....


Water Dumped on Nursing Mom and Baby.
In the UK, a shop-owner tipped a rubbish bin of dirty water over a mother after she refused to stop feeding her child while sitting discreetly on a nearby wall. He had earlier berated her with the accusation that breastfeeding was akin to urinating. The police were called, but the man was not charged with assault.

I know that last bit of news probably belonged in the Breastfeeding in Public thread, but I was on a roll. Sorry....

I believe the police may have over-reacted some, but the case is not as clear cut as it seems at first.

a.) The child is no longer breastfeeding. That alone raises my eyebrows a little.

b.) A boyfriend taking pictures of his girlfriend and her 4-year old son (not his child) in the shower is also pretty odd.

Sorry, but if the child were actually breast-feeding I could buy the parents side a little easier. But if the child is no longer on the boobie, claiming this is a breast-feeding issue is very misleading.

I read a letter that a friend of mine recieved from the chief of police in this case, after he had written in complaining about this news story.

The chief of police said that:

1) The police were never searched their home.

2) The police never saw any photos that weren't submitted to the photo developer for processing.

3) The police did not arrest anyone or incarcerate anyone.

4) The police only called CPS - that was where their involvement ended.

5) CPS petitioned the court to have the children removed from their mother's care.

6) The judge upheld the petition after viewing the photographs.

7) For obvious reasons, these photographs are not being published in the media.

Thanks Kreeli. I had read something like that on a feminist board, but I had not had time to look it up. (Please, no one ask what I am doing on feminist sites... :) )

Hummm, well. I'm glad I put this out there, because I definately wanted some more information. And you're totally right, Tame, this is not a clear cut case. I think there are some cultural differences that are making this case a bit muddled. I know personally I take baths with my kid, so I didn't see that as strange at all. We don't know the level of comfort her boyfriend has within the family, though. If he acts as father to these children and behaves accordingly (this is really the question here) then taking pictures of that nature aren't objectionable. Heck, I have pictures of breastfeeding my baby and taking baths with her.
But it is a very hard thing to judge considering we haven't seen all the evidence that the state has. It will be interesting to see the outcome.

Taking baths with children (assuming no weird age issues)? No problem.

Someone else taking pictures of a parent bathing with their children? Some questions will be asked.

Yeah, I agree. My baby is 14 months and it was her daddy taking the picture (she was actually younger then, I was afraid to give her baths so hopping in calmed my fears of drowning... I know, paranoia)... Nothing strange here.
But as for the issue at hand, if the boyfriend has been there with the family and helped raise these children, essentially acting as a father, then it's not strange. But if he's just some guy who's been around for a relatively short period of time then there is a problem.
Now this being said, I'm unsure about their decision to take the children away. Was it for the sexual enjoyment of the boyfriend? Then the children shouldn't be exposed to him, but I'm having a hard time thinking that the mother willfully put her children in that position for his purposes. If, in fact, it was for him, it may have been her being naive. I do think this case is about the boyfriend rather than the mother. And the picture that was used to send them to jail was actually a picture of their one year old child breastfeeding (the 4 year old is not his child, though).

The child was weaned - it was not breastfeeding. That is still an issue to me.

We know the boyfreind couldn't have been around too much - he supposedly missed the time period during which the 1-year old was breastfeeding.

BTW, mothers have pimped their children many, many times. I have no idea what happened in this case, but I don't find it a logical impossibility that *if* something twisted was going on, that the mother was involved.

I'm not at all saying that I disagree. It's a little weird. The child could not have been weaned for that long being that he was only a year old, and he took the breast willingly. My baby is 14 months old and still breastfeeding like a maniac. Most mothers feel a loss when their babies stop breastfeeding. Doing it one more time and documenting it doesn't seem too unusual to me. A little strange, yes, but there is also a cultural difference to look at. They are all from Peru, and, I'm speculating here, it may not be weird at all for people to take these kinds of pictures. Like I said, it may be a documentation of a coming of age. Like, "This was the last time little Rodrigo ever breastfed." (Keep in mind, I'm on the fence about this one now, so I'm playing devils advocate)

And, yes, I know... Mothers can do horrible things, too.... Forgive me, it's still hard to get my mind around it... It's not the first conclusion I want to draw, but I know it's a possibility. I know it happens, but I hate to think that it does. It makes me very sad. :cry:

the sad fact is, there are people who have a "breastfeeding fetish" and who will pay money for pictures of mother's nursing their children. about a year ago, i was a part of an online community of mothers (now defunct) that found out that many of the pictures we'd posted of our lovely nurslings at the breast had been "borrowed" and used as fodder in a breastfeeding fetish forum (now also defunct). i was completely shocked to find out that what i thought were innocent pictures were being used by people to "get off".

breastfeeding can, sadly, be considered porn, depending on the circumstances.

so what about all those ****ing pampers commericals. they always have babies running around naked..

First, "butt" shots of toddlers and below are typically never considered child porn. (Exceptions would be where the intent of the pictures/vidoes is obviously sexual.)

Second, the issue in this case wasn't simply naked children. It was the involvment of a naked/semi-naked adult in the same pics as the kids.

This is total BS. Those parents did nothing wrong. The only reason the picture was considered 'porn' was because the photo lab guy and the policemen probably got off by looking at it!
If anything, this is a case of racism, or class discrimination. Everyone I know has pictures of naked babies!
Babies sucking on breasts.... that's natural!! Duh! If someone thinks it's porn, then they are the ones who have the problem.
Hell, I'm a girl and I took baths with my dad when I was little, like 3 years old, and that certainly wasn't pornographic!
The American culture is all about being uptight and conservative.
Seriously, there are kids out there who are really getting abused and could be helped while these idiots are wasting their time trying to prosecute this bogus case.
ya, this made me mad!!

Perhaps you should consider reading the article again, re-reading the posts in this thread, and applying some critical thinking. Then you would perhaps realize that *none* of us know the whole story, and even based on article slanted in favor of the parents, there can be reasonable suspicion about these photographs.

BTW, I would just love to hear you explanantion on why this is class discrimination. :rolleyes:

Oh, I am sick reading this article. True, there may be more to in than we know but stuff like this scares me. There could be things that we do in our family that some people find offensive or inappropriate. We have three year old and one year old girls. My husband and I both co-sleep with the girls and we both bathe with them from time to time. I think nothing of breastfeeding openly in my home and there are pictures to prove it. The children often run around naked and see us naked too! My husband is a wonderful, involved, hands-on parent and it breaks my heart to think that there are people who could construe any of his/our parenting techniques as sexual.

I know someone who's male friend was questioned by CPS for co-sleeping with his daughter. Her mother had died and the daughter slept with her dad. They both found it comforting. In this case they found nothing wrong was going on but the little girl was subjected to many interviews and questioned on the way her dad took care of her. To think that anything like that could happen to us is very scary.

I do know that there are sick people who use children for sexual gratification. I was a member of an internet support group for women who pump breastmilk for their children. We were warned many times that pictures of nursing children/lactating women where used for sexual puroses by lactation fetishists. That just turns my stomach but I know it exhists. Blech!

Like I said, of course we don't know the whole story. But at this point, these children have been traumatized by being taken from their home. Sad all around.

here's an update on the case (http://www.dallasobserver.com/issues/2003-04-24/buzz.html/1/index.html)...the boy was finally returned to his family.
this story bothers me for several reasons and i still haven't found all of the words to say them. the fact that the baby had been weaned wouldn't have mattered on first glance, he was still so young that nobody could obviously tell that. it being jumped on as suspicious seems to me a cultural prejudice where bodyparts have clearly been so sexualized in this society that their real functions are forgotten and deemed unacceptable.
still, i agree there's a lot of details we couldn't know for certain so it's always possible for there to be more to the story.

Tame: "(Please, no one ask what I am doing on feminist sites... )"

Would this be the same Tame who once wrote: "Vegangal seems like the type of woman that I would slap on the ass and then tell her to "Go and make me a sammich!"
(http://www.ethicdiscussion.com/boards/viewtopic.php?t=4018&postdays=0&postorder=&highlight=&start=45)

and: "what's old is that jism that you let dry in your hair. Take a shower and wash that dirty ass, ho!"
(http://www.ethicdiscussion.com/boards/viewtopic.php?t=4018&postdays=0&postorder=&highlight=&start=60)?

Nah, that's some other Tame. :tame:

Originally posted by Tame
First, "butt" shots of toddlers and below are typically never considered child porn. (Exceptions would be where the intent of the pictures/vidoes is obviously sexual.)

Second, the issue in this case wasn't simply naked children. It was the involvment of a naked/semi-naked adult in the same pics as the kids.

Pics of naked adults are ok. Pics of naked children are ok. So whats the prob with a pic that has both?

Depends on what is going on in the pic.

Y'all can spin this how you want, but I would view these pics as suspicious.