What do you guys think about logging? Where I live a logging company that owns land along the roads in a small town. There used to be about 15 old growth redwoods trees on that land. Tree sitters made platforms in the trees to protest. Now there are about 2 trees left. Some of the trees were estimated to be about 600 years old. Some of the rings have been counted on the trees that were cut down, and it is more like 1000 years old. Trees like these are going to all be gone, and there won't be any more, and almost no one seems to care. Yesterday a tree was cut down that was the favorite of almost all the Earth First!ers involved. I layed down on the stump of it, and the diameter of it is longer then I am tall, and I am 5 ft 3 in.
There were people everywhere screaming and crying, walking along the tree moaning. We have footage of the tree falling yesterday, and it is something I wish i could forget, because it was so heart wrenching.
The lumber company has the police up there, and it is as if the police are in the lumber companies pocket. The person in charge of the logging assulted a mom that was up there. A mom that wasn't involved with Earth First!, just there because she likes the trees. The man in charge assulted her, and the police just turned their heads. Then the man, who is not a cop-he is a logger, said to the police "Arrest her", and they did.
The lumber company made a comercial that is being played on a local tv station. It says that they are preserving the community. They are dropping trees with the tree sit still up. Everything you find in a tree sit is scattered everywhere. Poop buckets, food, clothing, tools. At the site of where this one tree used to be, there is a 5 gallon bucket of tar smashed, and spread around. They aren't preserving the community, they are ruining it.
Please, just tell me, does anyone else care if in 2 years there are no more old growth redwoods trees? There is a stream that goes through this loggin zone that was nice, and healthy, and its not going to be anymore. When you drive up these roads, it isn't peacefull like it used to be. It is a graveyard.

I'm sad about it too. I think of the rainforests everyday, for some reason. President Bush is truly wreaking havoc on our environment. (A nice little distraction, war is) The best you can do is write to your representatives over and over and over. And make your voice heard with your vote.

i do care
its very sad
deforestation should stop and be illigalized says me

no, no, you misunderstand. Bush is simply preventing forest fires by cutting all the trees down. See, now it won't catch on fire. Didn't you read the news.

Right! He saved the two remaining redwoods by taking away the other ones!

Next we'll have them sprayed with pesticide (To kill off any menacing bugs, but don't worry...it won't affect any birds, chipmonks, or tourists in any way.), herbicide (To get rid of weeds, but don't worry...it has no lasting effect on the environment or the tree itself. No, no, all the leaves are supposed to turn radient yellow this time of year. It's natural.), and finally, we will cover the trees in a wax coating so they will last forever and ever, because they wouldn't do all right if left on their own.

Hey! I have an idea! I want a whole chess set made purely out of olg growth redwood! Where can i get it i wonder? Oh well, guess I'll just have to chop one of these ones down!

WRAAW! WRAAAW!WRAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH!!!!

--------Trav-----------

It's legal...the pot smoking three hugging hippies had no right to obstruct a honest decent contractor.!

If you wanna protest, go to washington!

(j/k)

kpickell-oops, i guess my ignorace is showing. wow, our genius president came up with a brilliant plan didn't he?

MyOwnPath-your in luck, there are still six old growth redwood trees up there (i had wrong info in my first post, sorry. there are now only 2 old growth on the road).

yes, it makes me sad that so many old growth trees are being cut down. a lot of places in the world won't buy timber from our province because they don't agree with our logging practices. the sad fact is, as long as they are on private property, protesters are trespassing according to the law, and the logging companies have every legal right to demand they be arrested if they won't leave of their own volition.

really, i see the problem as one of demand. wood is a cheap resource that the world gobbles up. the alternatives available to us are often too expensive (things like hemp paper products), hard to find, or considered "inferior" in quality.

it's not just the logging companies that are the problem. it's what consumers are paying for and demand.

if we really want to make a difference we should make a concious effort to not purchase wood that comes from these companies, and to buy products made from more renewable resources/recycled wood whenever possible. although the tree sitters and massive protests make a lot of good media, your dollar has more power.

vegansurfer:
What do you guys think about logging? Where I live a logging company that owns land along the roads in a small town.

kreeli:
although the tree sitters and massive protests make a lot of good media, your dollar has more power.


So did anyone put any energy into simply buying these trees while they were still standing?

how much do those tree cost anyway? of course Red, one might consider that saving one or two trees is fine and dandy that doesnt do much for the other old growth forests out there, certainly these corporations that deal in this stuff have deeper pockets than the hippies and will be able to purchase more trees, but if you can change the sentiment of the nation in regards to these issues, which requires media attention, you can get bills enacted and save ALL the old growth forests, not just a few trees.

these trees are extremely expensive. I don't know if any of you have ever seen them, but some of them litteraly take your breath away. there is this one that is right on the road. It is a triple, having three huge trees coming from one base. PART of the base grew with a hollow in it. one of my brothers who is 5'8 with his arms stretched out could bearly go from side to side of just the hollowed out part, if that makes any sense at all. it has been estimated that that tree alone worth is in the 6 digits, and that is why they aren't being left. the loggers don't seem to be able to look at them and see all the beauty and life they encompas. all they can see is $$$$$$. the worst thing is, is that tree, Eversteen, is on a steep hill, so when it falls it will probably shatter, and they won't even be able to use all of it. if any of you have heard of Julia Butterfly, the tree she was in for 738 days, Luna, cost $50,000 dollars to buy with a 2 acre buffer zone. Luna was on the same logging conpanies, Pacific Lumber, land as the trees i am talking about. I don't think PL would even let us buy these trees even if we got the money they are worth. Now they seem to be falling trees just to see us suffer. Some of the trees they are falling are so crooked and twisty that they won't be able to get that much wood out of them. PL is a very vicious company. There is this one law, the Slap law or something like that that makes it so the people that live in the town of Freshwater, where this logging is taken place, can not voice their opions about the logging because PL can in return take THEIR land away. Yes, the tree sitters are tresspassing onto land that PL owns, which is illegal, and do have a right to demand they be arrested, but the the mom who got arrested, was also ASSULTED by the man. everybody is breaking the law, including the loggers. They were dropping trees with people with in 50 feet. On Tuesday a CHP yelled at an old woman telling her to get off the HIGHWAY and pushed her to the ground. The lady ended up getting hurt. PL made a commercial about the logging. mainly they are talking about this one tree sitter who they are calling an "ecoterrorist" and saying "he is a threat to the community" (he was arrested for an animal rights things). in their commerical they have footage taken in February of people on the road (on legal, non trespassing road) protesting the logging. They show faces of the people. my two brothers, and my oldest brothers girlfriend are on it. the girlfriend is front and center. she is not happy about being on the commercial, and she wants to sue becuase they didn't have persmission to videotape her, or put her on the commerical. PL has climbers that climb up into the tree and pull sitters out when they are ready to climb the tree. The way they pull people out is extremely dangerous. One climber told a sitter as he was pulling her out "if you fall, i'm just going to say you jumped PL had an ad in a local news paper a few times. it was a full page ads with pictures of Martin Luther King Jr. and Ghandi. the Martin Luther King Jr society is suing Palco for unlicensed use of his image!
This whole thing is very depressing for many, many people. I know that PL owns the land, and it is legal for them to log, but it is just SOO wrong. I am 15 years old and can see that this is wrong, and is terrible for the eco system, and for people, yet this grown men can't see that. I don't understand how these people can still live with themselves after destroying these things. They are like robots, just do what they are told.

i agree that the big corporations don't seem to give a crap about the environment, or the health/safety/wellbeing of the protestors. it is too bad that the people can't stop the destruction of our old growth forests by showing up and protesting. this stuff has it's roots in government policy and economics, though.

i don't feel much anger towards the loggers themselves, however. these are men with famillies to feed, and logging is often the only lucrative job for them in these areas. imagine if you were trying to go to work to make sure you could pay your bills, feed your kids, and keep a roof over your head, and someone was standing in your way of doing it (and therefore threatening your health/wellbeing/safety). you would probably feel angry and scared and want to push them out of the way, too.

it's a bad scene all around.

i guess the key is to lobby the government as much as possible to change the rules about logging, to get them to protect more old growth forest (and prevent it from going up for sale), and to make your voice heard through your wallet when you are buying paper and wood products.

I have nothing against most logging. It is the old growth logging that I hate. Logging is a profession that give people money to feed their families. My uncle owns a hardwood floor laying business, and I have a brother that works for him. My family doesn't have hardwood floors in our house, but we wish we did because my dad and i have bad allergies. We have a woodstore for heat. I can understand them getting mad, and annoyed. But there are only 3% old growth redwood trees left. The redwood trees being cut down are as far as my family knows, are the only ones in this area. The next closest ones are an hour south of where we live. And you can't find these trees anywhere else. Redwood trees grow in northern California and southern Oregon. If you want to see pictures of the logging go to (and if the pictures show up on in this message, sorry) http://www.reninet.com/smw3/loggingdeck.jpg
(picture of what used to be known as the lower village [there was the upper village, and the lower village].
http://www.reninet.com/smw3/smudgedeversteen2.jpg
(picture of the tree i was talking about in an earlier post. The face that you can see is my brother, so we're not posting pictures of people's face without their permission.)

yes. i live in british columbia and have spent a fair amount of time in the old growth woods that still exist here. i know how awesome they are. it breaks my heart that they are being torn down piece-by-piece. i understand your passion about the issue. i'm just trying to say it's not all black-and-white. the loggers work for a company that tells them where to go and what to log, and if they don't do it, they lose their jobs. they may very well go home at night feeling terrible about cutting down these magnificent trees, but they would feel even more terrible if their famillies were cold and hungry.

the companies here are somewhat regulated by government controls (which are too lax, in my opinion), and the government is elected by the people, and the people buy the paper and wood products that are made out of these old growth trees.

so i guess what i'm trying to express is, if you really want this practice to stop, you've got to not only go to protests and get the media coverage, but make an effort to change which governments are elected so that logging practices change.

perhaps it's different where you live, but this is what we face here in british columbia.

majake:
how much do those tree cost anyway?

vegansurfer:
if any of you have heard of Julia Butterfly, the tree she was in for 738 days, Luna, cost $50,000 dollars to buy with a 2 acre buffer zone. Luna was on the same logging conpanies, Pacific Lumber, land as the trees i am talking about.

In this example, it cost $50,000 / 738 = $67.75 a day.

Simple fact is, the most expedient way to protect privately owned trees is to compensate the owner for the value they lose if they are not cut.

ok, I don't see the big deal about old trees, as long as the replace them with other trees. All that really matters is the posssible erossion and decreased abilty to absorb co2. And as long as they replace the trees thats won't be a problem. A tree is no more sacred than any other plant, just because its old. Don't attach emotion to objects that have no feelings, its not a good way of living.

I agree with Magates.

I have a poster with a great saying:

Log the last remaining redwoods? Why don't we turn the Grand Canyon into a landfill while we're at it?

Okey-dokey. :p

Originally posted by magates
Don't attach emotion to objects that have no feelings, its not a good way of living.

So attaching money to them is better? Are the contractors in it for the money or are they in it for the money?

magates says:

ok, I don't see the big deal about old trees, as long as the replace them with other trees. All that really matters is the posssible erossion and decreased abilty to absorb co2. And as long as they replace the trees thats won't be a problem. A tree is no more sacred than any other plant, just because its old. Don't attach emotion to objects that have no feelings, its not a good way of living.
----------


well for starters, trees, specifically old growth, are key habitat for thousands of species. destroying the trees is destroying the habitat for these species, leading them to a pretty much inevitable extinction. maybe you don't think that one species can have an impact on the entire ecoystem and that would just be plain ignorance. it's all intertwined, baby. a species of beetle goes to the dust...it's main predator (some kinda bird) is doomed....the niches they have in the forest are gone...the positive impact they have on the trees..gone...trees become more prone to disease...the list goes on. and on. and on some more.

i can't say i advocate any kind of logging. i'm all for smart presribed burns, however. they need to happen to begone with the undergrowth to prevent a bigger massive fire...but that's not what we're talking about.

there are some decent logging practices out there, i have to admit. but just taking down trees and replanting - uh...sure that's good. but once again, you've destroyed an entire ecosystem and sure, 40-60 years down the line that will be regenerated into another forest...but the intial impact is not a good one for anyone or anything, flora, fauna, human, involved.

and when we're talking about raping old growth - that's an entire different situation! it is not just about the trees - it's about all the life that depends on them for living.

and plus, i would hope a person would have this incredible sense of respect for 1000 year old tree. a 500 year old tree. for god's sake, a 4 year old tree. think about it - 1000 years ago that tree was right there...it's been through a lot. who cares if you don't think it has feelings - it's a living thing and you shouldn't disregard it's place in nature.

i have never seen the redwoods, (well back when i was three i did)...but i've seen a lot of bristlecone pine, which are the oldest living trees - there are ones up to 4000!!!! years old.

you cannot look at one and not be awe. and if you do, you're a sorry human being.

This is by no means a new issue, but things are really heating up with all the mass distraction going on--instead of using the power of your dollar to change (sorry, but by the time anyone listens to your dollar, there will be no trees left--the logging companies' pockets have a lot more padding than one might think), you all should check out
www.cascadiasummer.org
and become a part of the movement this summer to make more people aware of the slaughter of our forests--our forests, public land that the gov'n is subsidizing for logging--we must act now, because at this rate, there will only be monoculture forests in a few years...also:
Logging is not a respectable career in this day and age. Working at a strip joint is 10 times more respectable than the destruction involved with logging. Just because people still want hardwood floors doesn't mean that logging is acceptable. We need to start making some sacrifices and leaving the trees where they are is hardly a sacrifice.

Originally posted by fuzzpuddle
and become a part of the movement this summer to make more people aware of the slaughter of our forests--our forests, public land that the gov'n is subsidizing for logging--we must act now, because at this rate, there will only be monoculture forests in a few years...also:
Logging is not a respectable career in this day and age. Working at a strip joint is 10 times more respectable than the destruction involved with logging. Just because people still want hardwood floors doesn't mean that logging is acceptable. We need to start making some sacrifices and leaving the trees where they are is hardly a sacrifice.

Honestly, your post actually made me laugh out loud.
Trees grow back, cut some, grow some more. Rather simple.

Logging is a respectable career, at least to the majority. (Dont' worry strippers - I got much love for y'all. :love: )

BTW, I just picked out new hardwood for my house. Deal with it. ;)

i like hardwood floors, not as much as tile but they are still nice. Logging is a respectable career and trees are a great resource that can be replenished, without harming the world in the ways that plastic floors do, but the problem with old growth redwoods is that these trees cannot be replenished in a decent amount of time, once these trees are gone it will take hundreds of years to have them back, if they ever plant these kinds of trees again and if they don't keep chopping them down. These are a natural beauty of the world that should be preserved for the populations to enjoy in their natural state.

I can see how a lot of people don?t understand why saving these redwoods is such a big deal to people. As Funkified said, there are so many things depending on these trees. There are tons and tons of animals that live up here, and tons and tons of plant life. In one tree Marvelous a family of raccoons lived in the tree, but well, now if they are even still alive they will have to find someplace else to live. It is easy to not see the big deal about these trees if you have never seen them in person. The only way to describe them is huge and magnificent. These trees almost capture my attention more then the ocean does. Cutting down these trees for purposes such as furniture or hardwood floors is a lot like wearing fur. Killing something for decoration. These trees do help us survive. And I don?t see how anyone can put a price on them. Writing letters to the government isn?t really doing anything. Remember, this is America I am talking about. I hate that I am so worked up about these trees, because the people with the money and the connections are going to win, and it is just going to cause me even more pain, but these trees are dying, and they are all going to be gone. Have you ever got involved in something that was so much fun that you just wanted to get all your friends involved in it, and have your kids do it when you have them or are old enough? My dad discovered surfing, and got my brothers and I addicted to it. Have you ever see something so spectacular that you had to take a picture of it, you that you could see it later, in the years to come? These are what these trees are like. I would love for my kids to see these huge trees, and for the next generations to come. Logging is a job, but there are other trees that you can log, especially here. Is there now a price on living? Its not like you can clear cut a mountain, replant some trees and expect the mountain to be the same again. It takes more then 40 or 60 years for it to be good again. Everything around the logging is ruined. Streams banks deteriorate because there are no roots to keep the soil compacted, the water becomes so turbid that fish can live in it. New things can?t grow because they all need each other to survive.