http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/nationworld/chi-0511090183nov09,1,1982145.story

"arrogant vigilante"...interesting words from the judge.

Peter Young is one helluva guy. His support website for those interested is:

http://www.supportpeter.com/

It's not up to date. They've been too busy I suppose in the last weeks up to his final trial.

Peter has received some terrific support from people all over the world. And I think many of us will continue writing to him and supporting him during his prison sentence to help lighten his burden.

These guys and girls who are willing to sacrifice their freedom so that animals can live are real heros.

Diana, You made some interesting statements considering the definition of a patriot. I am curious as to how you differentiate betwixt the two. Please do not construe this as an insult, but rather a question.
Your statements,
"These guys and girls who are willing to sacrifice their freedom so that animals can live are real heros."


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

"Patriotism is a pernicious, psychopathic form of idiocy." -George Bernard Shaw


Now more specifically when doe the freedom fighter become the patriot and hence the idiot?

Diana, You made some interesting statements considering the definition of a patriot. I am curious as to how you differentiate betwixt the two. Please do not construe this as an insult, but rather a question.
Your statements,
"These guys and girls who are willing to sacrifice their freedom so that animals can live are real heros."


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

"Patriotism is a pernicious, psychopathic form of idiocy." -George Bernard Shaw


Now more specifically when doe the freedom fighter become the patriot and hence the idiot?Who has said anything about freedom fighters being patriots? I don't know whether ALF activists are patriots or not, worse for them if they are.

Well I say good for him (for freeing the mink, not for getting caught), I hate the way in these storys the libarator is always treated like the terrorist and the true terrorist (the fur farmer) is treated like the victim.

Well I say good for him (for freeing the mink, not for getting caught), I hate the way in these storys the libarator is always treated like the terrorist and the true terrorist (the fur farmer) is treated like the victim.

:up:

it was an absolute pleasure to raid your farms

:smitten:

I wonder how guys like this get treated in prison?

I wonder how guys like this get treated in prison?Probably not in a different way than most other inmates.

In case you are wishing physical harm on people who do mink liberations, that tells something about what kind of value you give to property rights on the one hand, and human life on the other.

Who has said anything about freedom fighters being patriots? I don't know whether ALF activists are patriots or not, worse for them if they are.
I guess any cause has patriots. The literal definition has to do with supporting a country or nation so, I guess their position is a cruelty free nation. Which I would agree as a premise and support , but the methodology used I question. And the kid should have a case for ineffective assistance of counsel in allowing his client to utter, " it was an absolute pleasure to raid your farms", which leds me to the idiocy in the last part of Shaw's quote. It is tough when the blind lead the dumb which is normally what happens in politics, the judicial system, and society as a whole.

PS: I like your avatar Seven Seas is there a story behind it? It is definitely a cool piece of art.

Probably not in a different way than most other inmates.

In case you are wishing physical harm on people who do mink liberations, that tells something about what kind of value you give to property rights on the one hand, and human life on the other.
The bottom end of the inmate chain is the child molesters. First, normally I believe a lot of them to be psychologically off. Second, they are normally weak personalities to begin with. Third, a lot of inmates are parents.

And I concurr with 7-Seas on the latter statement.

I thought it would be useful for people to read Peter's statement to the court right here on VeggieBoards in case they do not log on to his support website.

Peter's Statement to the Court
The following is Peter Young's statement to the court at his sentencing on November 8th, 2005. As Peter did a large amount of improvisation, the below text is not a verbatim record, but an approximate account based on his notes and the memory of supporters in the courtroom.

This is the customary time when the defendant expresses regret for the crimes they committed, so let me do that because I am not without my regrets. I am here today to be sentenced for my participation in releasing mink from 6 fur farms. I regret it was only 6. I'm also here today to be sentenced for my participation in the freeing of 8,000 mink from those farms. I regret it was only 8,000. It is my understanding of those 6 farms, only 2 of them have since shut down. I regret it was only 2.

More than anything, I regret my restraint, because whatever damage we did to those businesses, if those farms were left standing, and if one animal was left behind, then it wasn't enough.

I don't wish to validate this proceeding by begging for mercy or appealing to the conscience of the court, because I know if this system had a conscience I would not be here, and in my place would be all the butchers, vivisectors, and fur farmers of the world.

Just as I will remain unbowed before this court- who would see me imprisoned for an act of conscience- I will also deny the fur farmers in the room the pleasure of seeing me bow down before them. To those people here whose sheds I may have visited in 1997, let me tell you directly for the first time, it was a pleasure to raid your farms, and to free those animals you held captive. It is to those animals I answer to, not you or this court. I will forever mark those nights on your property as the most rewarding experience of my life.

And to those farmers or other savages who may read my words in the future and smile at my fate, just remember: We have put more of you in bankruptcy than you have put liberators in prison. Don't forget that.

Let me thank everyone in the courtroom who came to support me today. It is my last wish before prison that each of you drive to a nearby fur farm tonight, tear down its fence and open every cage.

That's all.

Don't forget to write to Peter! It doesn't take long. Just a letter and a stamp.

(Tofruittii: I only just saw your question to me about patriotism. I can't make head or tail of it. You have the ability to make me scratch my head in puzzlement when I read somne of your posts.)

Hahaha! I just opened this thread and "Breaking The Law" by Judas Priest started playing.

At times I could swear these media players are sentient.

Peter's statement just gave me the chills. Good for him for speaking up for the animals when he could have easily pretended to be remorseful for a possible lighter sentence. Thank you Diana. I think I'll write to him.

I realize these are probably stupid questions ... And I'm likely to get flamed for them ... but here it goes anyway.

1 - Are mink native to Illiniois?
2 - Since mink are carnivorous will their release into the wild have a negative impact on native species?
3 - Do animal rights activists who do these sorts of things take these factors under consideration before liberating the animals?

I do sympathise with the animals and I do admire people who believe in their convictions so strongly that they will risk imprisonment or death for their beliefs.

But I wonder at wether or not just releasing (liberating) aggressive predators into the wild is a really good idea. What of the prey animals in that area and the possibility for ecosystem damage?

Are the lives of the mink worth more than the lives of the other animals they will impact?

Those are very valid questions, Mrskey. Minks used to be plentiful in Illinois. But they were hunted for their coats and therefore there are not as many as there should be if they had not been interfered with by man. Reintroducing them is probably actually aiding in restoring the natural ecobalance. (Minks are never eaten by humans by the way, only exploited for their coats, as it is clearly stated on the revolting website of the furcommission www.furcommission.com )

I suspect many of the minks died as they were probably unable to cope with the harshness of nature - having been born in cages. But they Died Free.

There have been no reports anywhere by ecology watchdogs that the ecosystem was disturbed.

Are the lives of mink worth than the lives of other animals? No animal is inferior to any other. Except perhaps... those of mink farmers?

Diana -

Thank you for your answer.

I was wondering though about the third question I posed. Do people like Peter Young take into consideration the impact on the local ecology when they liberate animals?

I mean 8,000 adult minks suddenly released into an area previously devoid of or with a limited population of mink would be bound to severely impact the local ecology. Especially as these are very aggressive, per the ALF's own website "ferocious" animals.

While I detest the idea of their living abused in cages I also equally abhor the idea of the newly loosed minks wreaking havoc on an ecosystem ill equipped to cope with them.

I do believe that Peter Young took this into consideration. Animal Rights Activists are usually mindful of all animals.

If you like, I will ask him in a letter. Perhaps he will find the time to respond to me.

I made a mistake in my previous post. I mentioned Illinois for some reason. (Edited to add: Oh, it's you who put Illinois in my mind!!!!) The mink farms that Peter and his colleague raided were in three different states (I went to check in the news articles about him). They were as far as I can see in Iowa, South Dakota and Winsconsin. So you didn't suddenly get thousands of mink being released at one place at the same time.

Keep in mind that the very young, and probably many others died as they were probably unable to cope with the requirements of the wild. Don't forget these animals were born in cages... They would have died anyway to end up as a fur-coat. For those who lived... how glorious for them to wake up each morning FREE!!!

I realize these are probably stupid questions ... And I'm likely to get flamed for them ... but here it goes anyway.

1 - Are mink native to Illiniois?
2 - Since mink are carnivorous will their release into the wild have a negative impact on native species?
3 - Do animal rights activists who do these sorts of things take these factors under consideration before liberating the animals?

I do sympathise with the animals and I do admire people who believe in their convictions so strongly that they will risk imprisonment or death for their beliefs.

But I wonder at wether or not just releasing (liberating) aggressive predators into the wild is a really good idea. What of the prey animals in that area and the possibility for ecosystem damage?

Are the lives of the mink worth more than the lives of the other animals they will impact?This comment might not be worth much since I'm only talking about the Scandinavian fur farms that I know about (some of these things could apply to American farms, I don't know), but few things about them: a) minks were not part of the ecosystem "originally". But a mink population was formed before the first liberations began, as a result of the fur farms themselves - some animals always managed to escape and survived in the nature, thus forming a population. b) Most liberated animals are usually "collected" back to the farm. c) The animals on the fur farm have a negative effect on other animals, whether they're on the farm or released, since they are fed other animals. (But of course, the size of that effect is different, depending on whether they hunt themselves or are fed by humans, and I take your point to be that the "extra" damage that they do to other animals poses an ethical problem.)

Diana and Sevenseas -

Thank you both for taking the time to answer my questions. I must admit that I feared coming across as simply being difficult or obnoxious, in spite of the fact that my questions were asked seriously.

I still do not know exactly where I stand on issues like these ... but serious and thoughtful answers such as you have provided are helpful as I work this out for myself.

Thank you again.

Wow...To say I admire Peter Young would be an understatement. What an amazing individual.

I just don't understand what kind of world we live in that values greed and property over compassion and life. It seems so simple to me. I mean... LIFE. How is anything more important than that?

I must admit that I feared coming across as simply being difficult or obnoxious, in spite of the fact that my questions were asked seriously.Constructive, serious questions and criticism are (and should be) most welcome.

It's the "they are TERRORISTS!!!!!!!!111111 I HOPE THEY SUFFER IN PRISON!!!!!1111 :gun: :gun: :gun: :gun: check out www.furiscool.net" kind of criticism that is not.

Diana - "died free". Having seen the suffering wild animals go through, it really isn't pretty or romantic. And it certainly isn't freedom. Not to mention the high possiblity that these animals carried disease not in the wild animal population in the area, all the wild animals were then put at risk. And as Mrs Key said, it would throw off the natural balance in the area.

While I can understand how this action can be praised, overall I don't see how this will result in any less animal deaths. Many of the minks will die from inability to cope. Many of the minks will become sick, spreading disease. Other animals will die due to the minks, directly or indirectly. Animals who compete with the minks for food risk starvation.

One must not forget that the aim is not only to free the minks. That is only one part of it. The ultimate goal is to cause financial damage to the mink farmers to get them to close down.