What wrong with Bush taking god's advice about war?

[delicious]

As an atheist, I don't get the whole talking to god thing, but lately I've heard some religious people talk about the idea of Bush talking to god about war as ridiculous or insane.

Why?

If one talks to god on a daily basis, it seems only natural that they'd want his input even if they were only thinking about starting a war. No? ;)

[oriecat]

IMHO, I think it shows a weakness in their own faith. They don't talk to god, and they don't really believe that he does either. Nobody actually talks to god, and if he really believes that he does, then he's nuts. Or maybe they're jealous, since god doesn't talk to them. Of course these are my thoughts as a fellow atheist, so what do I know....

[luisgarciadiaz]

I wouldn't know much either. I'd have to ask my friend, who is a strong christian believer.

[IamJen]

IMHO, I think it shows a weakness in their own faith. They don't talk to god, and they don't really believe that he does either. Nobody actually talks to god, and if he really believes that he does, then he's nuts. Or maybe they're jealous, since god doesn't talk to them. Of course these are my thoughts as a fellow atheist, so what do I know....

Well, a lot of Christians believe that they DO talk to God when they pray.

While my beliefs are different, this seems perfectly normal behavior for a Christian. If you hold the belief that God is an omniscient being, then of course you're going to seek counsel from him. (duh)

BTW...be careful about stereotyping/name calling. Believing that you can communicate with a higher power = not the same thing as "nuts".

[Elena99]

Is it that Bush talks to God, or that God talks to him? Those are very different. It's one thing for a person to pray, and believe that a higher being is hearing them, but quite another thing to believe that a god has singled you out and is communicating personally to you. I think only people like the Pope can truly get away with that, and I don't know if even he claims to get messages from God.

[delicious]

I don't think oriecat was personally calling anyone nuts. I understood her post to mean that that's how some religious (& often liberal) folk see Bush. And that is my point. A person might think it's normal to pray to god for their friend to recover from an accident, but creepy and or fake for Bush to talk to god about war. It seems to me that if one religious person doesn't like the others' politics, then they quickly doubt that the other person has received their advice from god and either say that they are being dishonest or crazy or whatever.

[delicious]

Is it that Bush talks to God, or that God talks to him? Those are very different. It's one thing for a person to pray, and believe that a higher being is hearing them, but quite another thing to believe that a god has singled you out and is communicating personally to you. I think only people like the Pope can truly get away with that, and I don't know if even he claims to get messages from God.

I thought most people who pray to god believe that they will receive some type of answer from him/her.

[Poppy]

I was raised a Christian and have become fairly indifferent since. The one thing I am sure of, is that God has never spoken to me in any way that I knew for sure it was Him/Her. Religious faith is a mystery to me.

[bjorn again veg]

Great
So Bush's imaginary friend tells him to start a war
Ossama's imaginary friend tells him to blow up infidels
MY IMAGINARY FRIEND IS BETTER THAN YOURS!

[Elena99]

I thought most people who pray to god believe that they will receive some type of answer from him/her.

Ehhh... it's hard to tell. There are so many different churches out there. But as far as I know, most people don't pray with the expectation that they will receive an actual message. The important part is that God hears them. At best, people may interpret signs as coming from God. I've heard people say things like "I kept getting up early in the morning and having the urge to be outside, and I took that as a sign from God that He wanted me to run." Granted, I thought that was a little silly, but people believe what they'll believe. I'd be skeptical if Bush said he received a message that was pro-war.

I was brought up Catholic (I'm non-practising, I don't believe in God), and I'm speaking from that point of view.

[bjorn again veg]

If someone starts hearing 'the voice of god' does that not make than clinically insane?
In fact I would go one step further & say anyone who believes in a god / gods / deity is clinically insane & is a danger to society & should be locked away.

[Gnome Chomsky]

>>If one talks to god on a daily basis, it seems only natural that they'd want his input even if they were only thinking about starting a war. No? >>

I think some people look at this situation as being equivalent to the president claiming that a robotic rabbit from the future told him to go to war.

ebola

[MikeyVT]

A lot of poeple talk to god about war. I guess Bush didnt learn anything from the Crusades.

[astro]

If someone starts hearing 'the voice of god' does that not make than clinically insane?
In fact I would go one step further & say anyone who believes in a god / gods / deity is clinically insane & is a danger to society & should be locked away.

gee, how'd you get to be so tolerant :p

[frenchie]

Well, a lot of Christians believe that they DO talk to God when they pray.

While my beliefs are different, this seems perfectly normal behavior for a Christian. If you hold the belief that God is an omniscient being, then of course you're going to seek counsel from him. (duh)

BTW...be careful about stereotyping/name calling. Believing that you can communicate with a higher power = not the same thing as "nuts".

I could NOT have said it any better...thank you!

[frenchie]

If someone starts hearing 'the voice of god' does that not make than clinically insane?
In fact I would go one step further & say anyone who believes in a god / gods / deity is clinically insane & is a danger to society & should be locked away.


:sign:

[bjorn again veg]

I am pretty tolerant,
except when it comes to religious freaks!
Was the Spanish Inquisition tolerant?
Is Islamic Jihaad tolerant?
Are the catholic bombers who blow up abortion clinics tolerant?
NO
So why should we tolerate religious fundementalist freaks (of any persuasion).
Religion is a danger to society!

[froggythefrog]

As an atheist, I don't get the whole talking to god thing, but lately I've heard some religious people talk about the idea of Bush talking to god about war as ridiculous or insane.

Why?

If one talks to god on a daily basis, it seems only natural that they'd want his input even if they were only thinking about starting a war. No? ;)

He might talk to God about war, and that's good. I don't think he's listening, and if that's true, that's bad.

[Gnome Chomsky]

>>In fact I would go one step further & say anyone who believes in a god / gods / deity is clinically insane & is a danger to society & should be locked away.>>

This is not the current state of clinical psychology.

ebola

[Diana]

You can read all about the Presidential Prayer squad on the whitehouse.org website, on the page I provide below. Bush does not do his praying alone, you know. It's team-work.

http://www.whitehouse.org/dof/prayer.asp

[carrot]

The whole thing smacks of Bush trying to divert blame. It reminds me of schitzophrenics in film "The voices told me to do it."
Madness.

[Dirty Martini]

divert blame??

I disagree. It sounds like the political machine maintaining votes & support from the evangelical segment of the population.

[Ludi]

I have to say, I don't understand why religious people get a pass and other people who hear voices are "nuts." What exactly does Bush mean when he says God told him to do such and such? That's what I want to know. Does he believe any decision he makes comes from God? Does he hear a voice in his head that he thinks is God's voice? How does he know this is God's voice and not just a voice in his head?

Anyone here who gets messages from God, can you describe the process and explain how you know it is God?

I was a devout Christian for many years and never got a message from God. But since then I have had experiences which, if they had occurred in a religious context, I would have believed were a special message from God. The thing is, these experiences have been associated with symptoms of mental illness. So, as a person who has had much more profound "spiritual" experiences from mental illness than I ever had from religion, I have to ask how do we know Bush's talks with God aren't symptoms of mental illness?

[Diana]

What bothers me is that if the god that GW has this special connection with, has the same kind of speaking difficulties as Bush does, then maybe he's misunderstanding him completely. Maybe his god also mangles his words and grammar. I mean, if his god says stuff like Bush does, for instance "most of our imports come from abroad", then I think we're in big big trouble here.

Do gods also have speech therapists they can consult????

Like maybe when his god said "go take your army and invade Iraq", he actually meant "take your family for a short vacation in Bagdad".

This is very worrying.

[That Alpaca Guy]

I agree with Elena99.

‘Talking to God’, as I take it, just means to abide in a merciful, all-powerful being. Not always in the hope of changing anything, but just to be heard, unconditionally. I don’t find it odd at all. I mean, many people find talking about something helps them to deal with it. The common factor is that they believe that God can ‘hear’ them, and this gives them some degree of comfort. The way I understand it, God will never directly interfere/communicate, (I think this has to do with free will, at least from the Catholic perceptive) but this does not prevent God from being a sort of ‘guiding light’ or influence in the believers life in some other way/form.

Then again, I also come from a Catholic background, so it’s no surprise I see where Elena99 is coming from. :p



I disagree. It sounds like the political machine maintaining votes & support from the evangelical segment of the population.

I agree completely. This seems much more likely.