So, I went to the mall to buy a vitamin at this place...and basically the man behind the counter, who was very knowledgable about nutrition, told me that I need to eat eggs for protein and that flaxseeds have little Omega-3 and no DHA. He also told me that I am missing a number of amino acids by not eating eggs and/or fish.

Now, I know a storm of people are going to come at me with "that's not true" etc, etc. But, I would like a non-bias person who is knowledgable about nutrition, give me their opinion.

Basically I'm scared. And I want to live a healthy life and not play with my health.

I've recommended it before, and I'll recommend it again: Becoming Vegan (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/1570671036/002-2577844-9197618?v=glance). This book has several studies about the health of vegans.

Wikipedia also has an article on vegan nutrition (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vegan_nutrition). Its not as detailed as Becoming Vegan, but it may have some useful links for you.

Hope that helps.

I have been vegan for a while, 2 years about. And I have read Becoming Vegan. I just got freaked out because I do not eat as well as I should for someone who is vegan.

Well, I'm knowledgable about nutrition, and I'm unbiased in the sense that I don't think it's mandatory for EVERYONE to be vegan or vegetarian.

The eggs for protein thing is based on these studies that claim to show that the balance of amino acids in eggs is "perfect." But you know what? The studies were done on rats. The balance of amino acids needed to grow a lot of fur and whiskers is really different from the balance needed by human beings. The egg studies aren't relevant to human health. Other studies of amino acid balance done later suggest that soy has the closest to "perfect" balance for supporting human health.

In a sense, it's true that you're missing out on some amino acids by eating vegan. But you're not missing out on any essential amino acids. Plant foods have all the amino acids we need--our bodies manufacture the rest of the amino acids for us. So there's absolutely no need to eat animal products for that reason--if you eat a varied vegan diet, you will have plenty of amino acids and you'll be just fine!

It's incorrect that flaxseeds have little omega-3--they have plenty--but true that they have no DHA. DHA is found in very few plant foods (the only ones I know of are wild greens.) The thing is, most people's bodies can convert omega-3 to DHA with no problem, so you don't need a source of straight DHA. Some people can't do that efficiently, so they need to either eat fish or fish oil, or take algae supplements. A simple blood test will tell you whether your body can convert omega-3 efficiently.

To increase your omega-3 absorption, it's a good idea to eat a lot of omega-3 rich foods (raw walnuts, raw pumpkin seeds, raw flaxseeds) and reduce your intake of other polyunsaturated fatty acids (other nuts, vegetable oils.)

I'm not convinced that this guy was "very knowledgable about nutrition." Sounds like the typical mall-vitamin-store know-it-all.

I have been vegan for a while, 2 years about. And I have read Becoming Vegan. I just got freaked out because I do not eat as well as I should for someone who is vegan.

Very few people eat as well as they should--vegan or omni. It's a process. Don't stress too much about it :)

http://www.eatright.org/Public/GovernmentAffairs/92_17084.cfm

That's what I was going to post too, Thalia :)

From the American Dietetic Association link above:
Well-planned vegan and other types of vegetarian diets are appropriate for all stages of the life cycle, including during pregnancy, lactation, infancy, childhood, and adolescence.

We aren't the first vegans ever who are somehow test cases to see if we'll survive... Do some research on historical vegans (like Gandhi) :)

I'm not convinced that this guy was "very knowledgable about nutrition." Sounds like the typical mall-vitamin-store know-it-all.
There is of course a certain conflict-of-interest, and also, if this guy really knew his stuff, would he be hawking vitamins in a mall for minimum wage?

Once in a while desperation drives me into a Circuit City or equivalent. The claims and advice that I get from the kids working there is often hard to not laugh at.

The eggs for protein thing is based on these studies that claim to show that the balance of amino acids in eggs is "perfect." But you know what? The studies were done on rats. The balance of amino acids needed to grow a lot of fur and whiskers is really different from the balance needed by human beings. The egg studies aren't relevant to human health. Other studies of amino acid balance done later suggest that soy has the closest to "perfect" balance for supporting human health.

On top of the different amino acid profile that was "perfect" for rats, the people who ran those studies defined "perfect" as "allows the rats to gain a lot of weight quickly." 21st century America has shown us that rapid weight gain isn't necessarily the best thing for humans. So maybe we should steer clear of the so-called perfect protein! I also think no protein source can fairly be labeled as "perfect" when it's loaded with saturated fat and cholesterol, which study after study has shown is linked to so many health problems.

On top of the different amino acid profile that was "perfect" for rats, the people who ran those studies defined "perfect" as "allows the rats to gain a lot of weight quickly." 21st century America has shown us that rapid weight gain isn't necessarily the best thing for humans. So maybe we should steer clear of the so-called perfect protein! I also think no protein source can fairly be labeled as "perfect" when it's loaded with saturated fat and cholesterol, which study after study has shown is linked to so many health problems.
Indeed, Mazuri/Purina sells a number of different rodent chows. One's for maintenance, another's for "feeders". The latter has way more protein. It puts on weight faster, but even they tacitly are saying that it's not ideal for health.

I have been vegan for a while, 2 years about. And I have read Becoming Vegan. I just got freaked out because I do not eat as well as I should for someone who is vegan.
Most omnis don't even think about eating a well balanced diet.

Once in a while desperation drives me into a Circuit City or equivalent. The claims and advice that I get from the kids working there is often hard to not laugh at.

Not to say that every Circuit City employee doesn't know what he/she is talking about. And yes, they are laughable. One guy tried to sell my mom a printer by telling her "I got 5 [printers] hooked up to my laptop".

The best vegan diet is a whole foods vegan diet that doesn't ignore nutrition. Junk food vegans do risk health issues. Trying to squirm out of that reality doesn't do anyone any favors.

The best vegan diet is a whole foods vegan diet that doesn't ignore nutrition. Junk food vegans do risk health issues. Trying to squirm out of that reality doesn't do anyone any favors.

Agreed.

Now about the DHA thing, here's a link to some info I posted on another thread:

http://www.veggieboards.com/boards/showpost.php?p=1049413&postcount=4

The best vegan diet is a whole foods vegan diet that doesn't ignore nutrition. Junk food vegans do risk health issues. Trying to squirm out of that reality doesn't do anyone any favors.

Just as junk food omnivores risk health issues as well... maybe even more severe health issues. :up:

CK- I have found that due to my motivation to be a shining example of vegan health, I have become healthier than ever. My diet was an absolute disaster before I became vegetarian, and then vegan. I'm surprised I didn't die of scurvy. You are going to be unhealthy on a junk food omnivore/vegetarian/vegan diet. Any of them takes work.

One of those supplements guys told my husband that he absolutely should not take a soy/rice/pea protein supplement because the soy would make him take on female characteristics. :rolleyes: All they wanted to do was push the whey products. They tried to tell me I needed whey too, and I was like yeah, I'm not an idiot. I've done my own research. They just push what they know, and what they're accustomed too. It's the same reason doctors automatically recommened eating a steak if you're low in iron. Is eating steak really a good long term answer? Hardly.

CK- I have found that due to my motivation to be a shining example of vegan health, I have become healthier than ever. My diet was an absolute disaster before I became vegetarian, and then vegan. I'm surprised I didn't die of scurvy. You are going to be unhealthy on a junk food omnivore/vegetarian/vegan diet. Any of them takes work.



Well, I do not have a "junk food vegan diet". I eat a lot of raw veggies, too many fruits, lots of chick peas, and whole grains like oatmeal and whole wheat products, and I have recently been eating a lot of nut butters. I just get concerned when I go a few weeks without any flax, or if my day consisted of a salad, a ww bagel, and some peanut butter. It just doesn't seem balanced. At first, I felt a lot better as a vegan, but my hair has gotten thinner and I am SO WHITE. I know I can't blame it on veganism, because I do forget to take my vitamins and I don't eat much protein, which is a problem. I bought some tempeh, so I will eat it tonight.

I just get so scared because everyone else looks healthier than I do and I don't like that. It's so hard to gain muscles without overdoing the soy. I am also extremely afraid of having people take my blood, so I cannot go get tested for deficiencies.

I feel so icky even thinking about not being vegan, so will just have to try harder. I suppose it was just easier being lacto-ovo...which was 2 years ago, but I know that I can get the same things as a vegan. I will try harder.

It's the same reason doctors automatically recommened eating a steak if you're low in iron. Is eating steak really a good long term answer? Hardly.
My mother had extremely high levels of calcuim in her blood, so her doctor suspected her bones weren't asorbing calcium and ordred a bone density test. The technician who gave her the results of her bone density test said "you have the beginning stages of ostioprosis, you need to start taking a calcium supplement". My mother was floored she automatically recommended a calcuim supplement, because if she started taking one she could have died, since she already had high levels of blood calcuim. It just goes to show you that automatic advice isn't always good advice.

So, I went to the mall to buy a vitamin at this place...and basically the man behind the counter, who was very knowledgable about nutrition, told me that I need to eat eggs for protein and that flaxseeds have little Omega-3 and no DHA. He also told me that I am missing a number of amino acids by not eating eggs and/or fish.

Now, I know a storm of people are going to come at me with "that's not true" etc, etc. But, I would like a non-bias person who is knowledgable about nutrition, give me their opinion.

Basically I'm scared. And I want to live a healthy life and not play with my health.

I'm not specifically pro or anti vegan, so do I count as unbiased? I wouldn't take the advice of the guy at the vitamin place too seriously. After all, his job benefits from the nutritional defiencies of others. Considering he seems anti-veg, he's probably pretty biased himself. I'd suggest you talk to a qualified physician/nutritionist that isn't anti-veg. I know you stated you are scared of getting your blood taken, but since you stated you think you look less healthy than everyone else, its probably a good idea to get a physical plus blood test. It could be something not diet related ... or you could be worrying for no reason. The tests will shed some light.

Have you read The China Study or Eat to Live? They are both pro-whole foods based books. Its hard to find a completely unbiased source, though. Afterall, the idea of a book is to share your thoughts, ideas, studies, etc.

Well, I do not have a "junk food vegan diet". I eat a lot of raw veggies, too many fruits, lots of chick peas, and whole grains like oatmeal and whole wheat products, and I have recently been eating a lot of nut butters. I just get concerned when I go a few weeks without any flax, or if my day consisted of a salad, a ww bagel, and some peanut butter. It just doesn't seem balanced. At first, I felt a lot better as a vegan, but my hair has gotten thinner and I am SO WHITE. I know I can't blame it on veganism, because I do forget to take my vitamins and I don't eat much protein, which is a problem. I bought some tempeh, so I will eat it tonight.

I just get so scared because everyone else looks healthier than I do and I don't like that. It's so hard to gain muscles without overdoing the soy. I am also extremely afraid of having people take my blood, so I cannot go get tested for deficiencies.

I feel so icky even thinking about not being vegan, so will just have to try harder. I suppose it was just easier being lacto-ovo...which was 2 years ago, but I know that I can get the same things as a vegan. I will try harder.

Firstly, nobody's testing my blood either. I refuse to have a needle anywhere near me. :p

Just be patient. It's going to take you a while to build up a varied diet and it's very easy to fall into patterns where you're eating the same thing all the time (and not the best things you can be eating). A few weeks or months (or longer) of less-than-spectacular eating while you become acclimated to new foods isn't going to harm you in the long run.

As for people looking healthier than you... there are many reasons why some people may look healthier than you, or why you may not look very healthy. How are your sleep patterns? are you getting used to living on your own now at school? Do you exercise? I didn't look all that healthy when I went vegetarian initially. I look at pictures of myself over various times in my life, and even though I'm not a hot young thing anymore ;) I look better than I have in my life now. I think I glow.

Maybe there's some ways for you to work things like flax into your daily diet? My husband and I eat a smoothie every single day, and we put flax oil in it. So it's automatic. We eat our smoothie and in the process, eat lots of healthy fruit and get our needed omega-3's.

I have been keeping track of my food on fitday for the past few weeks and while it's a pain in the butt to get started, it has been immensely helpful to pinpoint what areas I may not be doing as well in, and to add food to my diet that will make up for it, or supplement accordingly. The only things I have come up short on are selenium (I'm willing to bet everyone falls short on it) and zinc, but even then I'm at about 80% of the RDA. So I'm going to work on adding zinc-rich foods as well.

What I was trying to get at though, was that even if you were an omnivore or a vegetarian... chances are your diet would not be any healthier given where you're at in your life. Look at the diets of your peers-- can you say that they are meeting all the RDAs better than you? Probably not. Obviously you feel strongly about being vegan but are scared. I had the same reaction initially after reading Becoming Vegan but then it impowered me to improve my diet.

And don't feel bad if you have an off day. It isn't going to hurt you. Just try to make the best day as jam-packed full of goodness as possible!

My mother was floored she automatically recommended a calcuim supplement, because if she started taking one she could have died, since she already had high levels of blood calcuim. It just goes to show you that automatic advice isn't always good advice.
:rolleyes: Nothing like treating the symptoms instead of the cause.

Most omnis don't even think about eating a well balanced diet.

:up:

One of those supplements guys told my husband that he absolutely should not take a soy/rice/pea protein supplement because the soy would make him take on female characteristics. :rolleyes:

Taking on bovine characteristics would be better :confused:

Taking on bovine characteristics would be better :confused:

:lol:

Well I'm sad to say that it took quite a while to convince my husband otherwise. Just the mere hint of developing female characteristics scared him quite badly. Now he eats tofu with no fear.

Remember, consuming cow's products is seen as "normal" to most of the population. Currently he's not taking any supplements at all, but he has dramatically cut back his dairy consumption. :up: (He's a vegetarian.)

CK, if you are concerned about your Omega-3 intake, there are some breakfast cereals available that have it built in. Nature's Path Optimum Power is one that comes to mind. Blueberries and Omega-3, yum!