Hello everyone! :)

I regularly find myself defending veganism and animal rights, and I have a few canned replies to the typical questions like "animals eat other animals, why shouldn't I". But recently, someone asked me two questions that I didn't have a reply to immediately, and I'd like some input on these.

Assuming that the wrongness of suffering doesn't diminish if it's a cow or a human being:

1) Why should we allow mountain lions to predate on deer but not predate on humans? In other words, would I be willing to save a human about to be eaten by a lion but neglect a deer in an identical situation?

2) Is it ethical to relocate a dangerous animal from a human community into a non-human community?

None of the the books I have on animal rights detail the problem of carnivorous animals in great detail, but I figured most everyone here has more experience with these kinds of odd questions. All assistence is thanked in advance :)

It's a difficult issue. Some folks are touching on it here...

http://www.veggieboards.com/boards/showthread.php?t=42711

I tend to side with herbivores generally.

1) based off logic and not emotion: yes, its our duty to maintain and protect the longetivity of our own species. if the deer does not benefit us with a byproduct of its lifestyle, we can not be held responsible for it.

personaly, i side with herbivores and if given the situation i would rip off my shirt and battle the lion to the death!

2) on the same basis as the first question, yes. its even acceptable to execute it if necessary. especially if its difficult to avoid saving the life, and the caracass is beneficial to the community. this is assuming the animals' presence was not instigated by the people. if it was, which is usually the case, the life or lives are their responsibility in my opinion, and they can not expect a different animal to understand the situation.

1) Why should we allow mountain lions to predate on deer but not predate on humans? In other words, would I be willing to save a human about to be eaten by a lion but neglect a deer in an identical situation?I think that is a good question. The reason why there aren't necessarily any obvious answers from an AR point of view is that our tendency to answer 'yes' to the latter question is more or less based on species. (I assume the human in question is some stranger and not e.g. a family member.)

I don't know what books on animal rights you have, but you could try to look for an answer in Tom Regan's Case for Animal Rights.

(I should add that Peter Singer's Animal Liberation provides an answer by implication fairly easily, of course: there can be more emotional harm caused to the dead human's family members than to the dead deer's family members, which may justify the difference; and also, Singer finds the death of a normal human worse than that of a deer because he thinks humans have future-related projects and interests, at least more so than many non-humans.)

2) Is it ethical to relocate a dangerous animal from a human community into a non-human community?I don't know what you mean. Dangerous in what way and to whom?

1) Why should we allow mountain lions to predate on deer but not predate on humans? In other words, would I be willing to save a human about to be eaten by a lion but neglect a deer in an identical situation?

I think mountain lions should be allowed to prey on humans, if humans are encroaching on their territory. People in parts of India where there are man-eating tigers are learning to live with the tigers, avoiding the places and times where tigers are likely to be hunting.

Saving a deer or a human from a mountain lion is unfair to the mountain lion, but it's understandable for you to want to save a human, being human yourself.

2) Is it ethical to relocate a dangerous animal from a human community into a non-human community?

It depends on the circumstance. Why is the dangerous carnivore in the human community? Or is it the human community has encroached on the carnivore's territory? If the latter, the human community should be relocated, or the humans should learn to live with the carnivores.

First question: I personally think a cougar is entitled to eat whatever it can kill, human or otherwise. To the person who thinks that's somehow a green light to eat meat, I would say that Mother Nature (or God or however you want to put it) designed cougars to kill and eat meat. She didn't design us to kill and eat meat, and she certainly didn't dream up factory farms and high-speed slaughterhouses. Those can only be the devil's work. However, I would be worried about possibly being charged with some sort of crime if I didn't try to help the person being attacked.

And before anyone asks, I would rather be killed and eaten by a cougar than die a slow death from cancer or heart disease and have my enbalmed corpse stuck in a fancy wooden box any day. Cougars are more humane killers.

Second question: I think it's perfectly ethical to remove a dangerous animal to an area that is more suitable for it, for the animal's own safety. A cougar loose in lower Manhattan would be in terrible danger.

I recommend The Beast in the Garden by David Baron for an interesting study on the issues of humans learning to live with and tolerate large predators.

Perhaps I'm in the minority, but I think humans are more important than other animals.

Yes, animals have rights. They don't deserve to be tortured just so we can eat meat. But on the big scale of things, humans are a step up from most animals.

Which is why I'd save a human from a lion, but not a deer.

Just my $.02.

Perhaps I'm in the minority, but I think humans are more important than other animals.

Yes, animals have rights. They don't deserve to be tortured just so we can eat meat. But on the big scale of things, humans are a step up from most animals.

Which is why I'd save a human from a lion, but not a deer.

Just my $.02.


i find the most important thing in the life (of any creature) is its capability for a sustainable existence. if you do not have this, you have an unsure future. this train of thought leads to the importance of the planet's health, which, when sustained, will sustain life. this includes plants, animals, and these specific animal competitions we are discussing.

it is interesting to note that every form of life that has stood the test of time has a by-product of its lifestyle that benefits other lives (ex. the deer consumes plants, digests them, and re-feeds plantlife through healthy feces - yum!). every life, that is, except post-agricultural humans. as a species, we have a very negative net outcome of usefullness toward our abstracted home, which is why i rate the deer over the human.

there are individuals and small communities of our species that are pretty dang good, and for that they have my absolute respect and love. they give me hope that we are intellectually capable of competeing with the deer for excellence. :] unfortunately, however, to judge "humanity" we have to look at the net total.

can i ask, please, your reasons for liking the human?

You could solve the problem by shooting the mountain lion and the deer and eat both.

You could solve the problem by shooting the mountain lion and the deer and eat both.
Sorry, DOING WHAT?!?! :sign:

I hope it's a joke ...

Sorry, DOING WHAT?!?! :sign:Don't feed a troll, it will just become bigger and more hairy :)

Heh:lol: That's fine then :)

Sorry... perhaps I got off on the wrong foot. I solve problems for a living. I was just trying to figure out the best possible solution to the problem... Sorry If I offended.

I'll go back to my lentil soup and cry.

I vote we save the animal......the human will just $%# things up for the Deer and the Cougar anyway. If the human wants nature.....let him have it.

I think mountain lions should be allowed to prey on humans, if humans are encroaching on their territory.

For the adult humans who choose to live in those locations...maybe. But what about babies? Should they be killed by lions? They didn't have any choice about where to live.

Think of the children! Won't somebody think of the children!!! :D


Sorry, couldn't help myself.