Veg*nism More Expensive??

[Tesseract]

I know I haven't been here that long, and I hesitate to broach this subject, but I have to know...

What are the factors that might cause a veg diet to be more expensive than eating meat?

I have noticed several posts suggesting that some people might not be able to afford to eat veg. I am perplexed by this because it seemed to me that I SAVED money when I went veg. I put the money I was saving by not buying meat into buying organic produce instead.

Granted, it's been 7 months since I bought meat, but I recall the meat was almost always the most expensive thing on my grocery receipt and fresh produce was usually among the cheapest. It seems to me that tofu and especially beans are significantly cheaper per pound than meat, even though so many of the costs of our meat are hidden. I can save even more money on produce by going to the farmers' market.

The one instance I can think of where the vegan alternative to an animal product is more expensive is soymilk, which consistently costs more than cowmilk. But a lot of vegetarians (not vegans) still drink cowmilk.

I suppose I can think of a few situations in which eating veg might be more expensive (or perceived to be more expensive)...

1. I did learn from reading Food Fight that in many poor urban neighborhoods, people have easier access to junk foods than real foods. For these people it may truly be more economically feasible to eat 3 meals a day at the corner Burger King at $2 per meal than to get on the bus and trek to the nearest grocery store to spend $40 or more in one go on a week's groceries. Of course, I would say that's not eating, that's slow suicide.

2. There might also be people whose minds are so ingrained with the idea of "meat and 2 vegetables" or "meat and potatoes" that they believe eating veg means you have no choice but to buy fancy meat analogs like Quorn patties and the like. Yes, those are expensive, but I would classify them as indulgence foods-- things you buy occasionally because you want them, but not a staple of your diet.

3. Another possibility might be if you are the only veg*n on your family and you have to buy two sets of groceries - one for yourself and one for the rest of the family. This is a situation that I have trouble intuitively understanding because my rule has always been that if I'm in charge of groceries and cooking, the household will eat what I cook or fend for themselves. My mantra is, "If you don't like what I made for dinner, there's PB&J." But then I only have to impress that rule on my BF.

But all of these scenarios are unusual situations in which a type of food that's ordinarily less expensive becomes more expensive due to external circumstances (or misconceptions).

I know it's terribly rude of me to start a potentially controversial thread this early in my tenure here, and I told myself not to do it, but I honestly don't understand this and it's been eating at me. I'm seriously looking for real answers and productive discussion of the economics of food. It seems to me that there is a myth happening here that we need to dispel.

[eggplant]

It's not that controversial! In fact, we've discussed this many times. I think you've accurately identified all the reasons some people might think eating veg is more expensive. Buying produce out of season might be another reason, or if you live in an area where produce is not locally plentiful and is therefore more expensive.

[meatless]

My grocery bills have skyrocketed as I have become more and more vegan. There's a few reasons, the main one being that we now buy much MUCH more organic produce and other products, whereas before we didn't. Where I live, organic is not just a bit more expensive, for some things it's 3-5x more expensive than the non-organic counterparts. However, it's a bit like comparing apples and oranges to compare a Standard North American Diet filled with cheap and unhealthy junk with a varied organic vegan diet.

It has also been more expensive because when I started out, I didn't like most vegetables. I think i ate like, three of them. Now I eat a lot more, but there has been a lot of experimentation in the meantime. That can get expensive, especially when experiments fail and you end up cooking a second meal because the first one was THAT BAD. Plus, since I didn't like many veggies for a long time it meant I did need to buy a lot of vegan convenience food... which meant more expense and experimentation (many were inedible).

[VegAnna]

I think I have it all wrong. I tend to think I *need* everything that's non-vegan in its vegan version to be "normal." I know how to eat without all the special faux products (soy sour cream, soy creamer, faux meat, soy yogurt, soy cheese, etc) but from the beginning on I was so excited about all the options I have that I have made it a habit to buy all these un-natural and unnecessary things. I waste a LOT of money doing that. I also buy convenience food on impulse when I'm downtown, they just have too many vegan foods offered in the food courts and at the Market (though I can't blame them, it's me who makes the decision to buy it).
I need to get better at cooking my own stuff from scratch, darnit. I'm working on it.

[das_nut]

A vegan diet may be more expensive than an omni or vegetarian diet. I can't think of a good, readily available B12 source that is cheaper than an animal-derived B12 source.

I use fortified soy milk for B12, which is considerably more expensive than cow's milk.

Nuts may also be a problem, if you are using them for a meat replacement. I haven't checked prices lately, but I believe cheap meat is cheaper than nuts.

Otherwise, I can't think of anything a veg*n *needs* to buy to replace meat which is more expensive.

There may be many things a veg*n *wants* to buy which is much more expensive than animal-derived products, especially convenience foods.

My budget went up slightly when I switched to a vegan diet. (Its about $50/week for myself and my omni wife). Part of that is due to a switch to healthier living. I stoppied buying a lot of foods where sugar was a major ingredient. This would result in me buying a more expensive pasta sauce, for example.

Hope that helps.

[Tesseract]

So, what I see so far are discretionary decisions to make improvements in our diets that aren't strictly necessary in order to eat veg, like choosing to buy organic, choosing to buy convenience foods, or choosing to buy better quality foods even though they are more expensive. I certainly understand, and I do these things myself. But they don't seem to me to be things that would actually prevent someone from eating veg for lack of money. On the contrary, it seems to me that the best thing you can do if you're short on cash is put your grocery dollar toward beans, rice, and sale produce instead of meat.

As far as a B12 source for vegans, sure, soymilk is more expensive than cowmilk, but the money a person can save by skipping the meat would seem to me to more than make up for it. Of course, this is a non-issue for vegetarians who eat animal products.

I suppose we may also be dealing with people who simply don't know how to cook, and so they have no concept of how to turn inexpensive veg foods like fresh produce, grains, and herbs into delicious, healthy meals. I'll never forget the story of a woman who stood in the freezer aisle looking at heat & serve bag dinners, listlessly picked one up, sighed, and said, "I don't feel like cooking tonight." If this is our idea of cooking, we're in trouble. I read a news article recently of how the failure to transfer cooking lore to our children is becoming a major social problem in the US, and the children of people like this woman are literally learning that cooking means getting something out of the freezer and setting the microwave. So I guess if your idea of fixing dinner means grabbing a package of Pasta Accents, you're going to have a problem eating veg.

[rabid_child]

I think that its pretty cheap. My grocery budget is $35/wk. Most people spend over $5/day on lunch alone. I don't buy a lot of convenience foods, less 1 qt soy milk weekly and some soy cheese on occasion. (I have been buying Luna bars lately, since they're on sale for $.99 at the co-op, plus there's a $.50 coupon, and I get 26% off of that so they're about $.37 each. You can't beat that!) I do buy tofu, or seitan, or TVP, fruits and veggies, pastas and grains, spices, sauces, and staple foods. I do buy some things that I normally wouldn't to accomodate my frequently visiting boyfriend, like soda or juice (I am a water/hot tea drinker), but that only goes after I've bought my groceries for the week if there is a few dollars left over. So far this week I've spent $15 and bought ww pasta, kale, cherry tomatoes, vegan spinach ravioli, soy milk, granola, parsley, 3 Luna bars, premade brown rice and seaweed and edamame salad... hmmm.. other stuff too I can't remember. I already have locally grown apples, frozen peas and broccoli, breads, canned beans, rice, spices, cereal, oatmeal, things like that in the house. I don't buy everything every week. And sure I buy treats and things too sometimes, but they come AFTER staples if there's money left.

I think the problems people encounter are the same as you mentioned. People buy expensive processed foods to replace the meat that they ate before rather than eating a whole-foods centered diet. They buy imported, out of season produce instead of locally produced, seasonal goods. I work 3 hrs a week to get 26% off of my groceries at the co-op and it certainly helps a ton! But even without that I think my bills would be this low.

[kpickell]

I suppose we may also be dealing with people who simply don't know how to cook, and so they have no concept of how to turn inexpensive veg foods like fresh produce, grains, and herbs into delicious, healthy meals. I'll never forget the story of a woman who stood in the freezer aisle looking at heat & serve bag dinners, listlessly picked one up, sighed, and said, "I don't feel like cooking tonight." If this is our idea of cooking, we're in trouble. I read a news article recently of how the failure to transfer cooking lore to our children is becoming a major social problem in the US, and the children of people like this woman are literally learning that cooking means getting something out of the freezer and setting the microwave. So I guess if your idea of fixing dinner means grabbing a package of Pasta Accents, you're going to have a problem eating veg.
Yep, that's me. I found veganism much more expensive because of my reliance on frozen microwavable meals. The times when I do buy vegetables, beans, legumes, and stuff like that with the intention of eating right and learning to cook, they end up going to waste. Reading a recipe brings instant anxiety.

[Tesseract]

Reading a recipe brings instant anxiety.

That's really a shame, because the process of turning fresh foods into delicious meals can be very gratifying and fun. It's much the same pleasure that gardeners get from working with plants and soil, and being proud of the results of your work when the plants thrive, only results come much quicker! It's a labor of love, and I often find cooking relaxing as long as I've planned everything properly and I'm not scurrying about the kitchen looking for ingredients. Have you tried taking a hands-on cooking class? They're a lot of fun, you're with a group of people who are also learning it for the first time, and you get to eat the results!

I recently bought an excellent book at Half-Price Books called Food for the Spirit, which discusses how the rituals of preparing food and coming together to eat it are some of our most sacred acts that speak to deep and primal spiritual needs. I just have to quote it here:


Retrieving the sacred in our lives demands that we bring back enchantment into everyday actions and processes...[E]nchantment can be brought back to cooking and eating-- these can be seen as the two magical functions of nourishing and healing our bodies. The kitchen then becomes a temple where, magically, raw food is alchemically transformed into a glorious substance that sustains us in all dimensions...

Spirituality is seeded, germinates, sprouts, and blossoms in our kitchens[]. The kitchen has been regarded throughout history as a place of enchantment: This is where the hearth and heart of the house are. In fact, kitchens help us transform a house into a home... There exists an ancient psychological pattern within us that awakens to magic when food is being prepared and eaten; we naturally gather around the cooking stove, taste morsels of the food that is being made, and talk from the heart. This is a time and place that needs to be honored in our own homes.

[Diana]

I don't know if veganism is less or more expensive than an omnivore diet, because I'm "only" a vegetarian.

But definitely vegetarianism is cheaper. My food budget went down by about 1/3rd since I became vegetarian. I really notice it at the end of the month - brings a smile to my lips.

I don't buy convenience food though, or very very rarely. Instant food is not really my cup of tea. And it is expensive (the convenience food, I mean).

Fresh fruit, fresh vegetables (that I buy directly from the market), grains, cereal... all this is dirt cheap.

[bluegrrrl79]

I think one aspect that definitly is more expensive is the non-food vegan items. That's one thing (among several) that keeps me from going vegan, is seeing how expensive vegan moisturizer/shampoo/body wash/dish washing stuff/ect. is! I usually try to buy the cheapest stuff that works, but if I went vegan I couldn't afford it.

[Tesseract]

So all in all, it sounds like there may be some cost issues involved in practicing a full-fledged vegan lifestyle extending to things like clothes, shoes and personal care products, but most people can take a huge step in the right direction by simply cutting out meat without incurring any extra costs, and very likely saving quite a bit of money if they plan it well.

[Tofu-N-Sprouts]

Eating vegetarian is definitely cheaper for us.
Even though I cook slightly different items for my kids (they're not vegan and I am not selfish enough to demand that they suddenly switch to a lifestyle that I am still adjusting to...)

It would be great, but I definitely can't afford organic produce - sometimes it irritates me when people assume that to be vegan, one must also buy organic.
No apologies, I will buy the "regular" brand of something (Cheerios, for example) rather than the more expensive organic Health-Food-Store brand of the same item (Organic Oat Rings).

I understand it's a health benefit, but when it comes down to a choice between buying one bag of organic groceries for my family, or buying enough non-organic groceries for my family for the entire week, I have no option but to buy non-organic and keep my family fed.

(Tess: I LOVE your siggy line - how I can relate!!)

[Tesseract]

Tess: I LOVE your siggy line - how I can relate!!

Which one, the frustrated writer one or the curiosity one? I just changed it. I could never get a permanent tattoo, I would want to change it all the time, and apparently I'm just as bad with signatures. Anytime I see a neat quote or think of something, I want to change my sig.

[Tofu-N-Sprouts]

Which one, the frustrated writer one or the curiosity one? I just changed it.

Actually I was referring to the frustrated writer one... but the 'curiosity' one was good too actually...

I had the same dilimma about tattoos too! I have like 20 designs I like and can't settle on 'one'.. I've discovered the short-term henna tattoos help me narrow it down a lot and I figure out which designs I wouldn't like as well... (besides which, I understand most "real" tattoos aren't done with vegan products :brood:)

[meatless]

Eating vegetarian is definitely cheaper for us.
Even though I cook slightly different items for my kids (they're not vegan and I am not selfish enough to demand that they suddenly switch to a lifestyle that I am still adjusting to...)

It would be great, but I definitely can't afford organic produce - sometimes it irritates me when people assume that to be vegan, one must also buy organic.
No apologies, I will buy the "regular" brand of something (Cheerios, for example) rather than the more expensive organic Health-Food-Store brand of the same item (Organic Oat Rings).

I understand it's a health benefit, but when it comes down to a choice between buying one bag of organic groceries for my family, or buying enough non-organic groceries for my family for the entire week, I have no option but to buy non-organic and keep my family fed.


Oh I definitely don't expect that if someone is vegan, they must buy organic. Not at all, it's so expensive! I just am fortunate enough to be able to afford to buy quite a bit of stuff organically, but I draw the line at some things too.

[Tesseract]

sometimes it irritates me when people assume that to be vegan, one must also buy organic.

I agree-- I don't get irritated so much, but to me they are two separate issues that happen to be practiced by many of the same people. I'll pay somewhat more for organic, but I don't think my calculating side could handle paying 3-5x more for organic. And I simply will NOT settle for old, bruised, wilted, and sometimes even moldy organic produce over fresh, perky chemical produce at any price! That's often the situation at my local grocery store.

Unfortunately the plight of organic produce at most mainstream grocery stores seems to be a catch-22. There's not much demand for it, so they don't move it fast enough and it gets old and nasty, and shoppers see old, nasty expensive produce with the label "organic" on it sitting next to fresh, perky, cheaper produce without the word "organic." It's not the best advertisement in the world for organic, so of course demand stays low.

[Amy SF]

I try to buy organic produce whenever possible, although sometimes it isn't possible. I don't like that it's so expensive, but for me, avoiding pesticides in my produce is a definite factor in what I buy. I understand that it's not an option for everybody, though. I have a little money to spend on food, so I'm willing to spend it on organic when I can. I just wish organic produce was more economical so everybody who would like to buy it can do so.

[eggplant]

I think one aspect that definitly is more expensive is the non-food vegan items. That's one thing (among several) that keeps me from going vegan, is seeing how expensive vegan moisturizer/shampoo/body wash/dish washing stuff/ect. is! I usually try to buy the cheapest stuff that works, but if I went vegan I couldn't afford it.

I find 99 cent bottles of vegan shampoo all the time at places like Big Lots and Dollar Tree. You just have to look. I buy my inexpensive vegan moisturizer and detergent at Trader Joe's. Do you have one near you?

[Ludi]

Organic more closely reflects the true cost of producing the food. Conventional produce does not reflect the long-term costs of soil destruction, etc.

I should add: Or maybe it doesn't.

One of my heroes, Masanobu Fukuoka, has a farm in Japan where he used to grow organic oranges, which he would sell more cheaply than anyone else because they cost him so little to produce. The people who carried his oranges would get mad because he could charge a premium for "organic natural oranges" but he wouldn't raise the price, he felt good wholesome food should be affordable for everyone.

I wish it could be that way all over, I wish our food growing system were different. I fear large-scale organic producers just charge a premium for their often rather nasty produce because they think they can, not because the quality of the food warrants a higher price.

[Coney]

1. I did learn from reading Food Fight that in many poor urban neighborhoods, people have easier access to junk foods than real foods. For these people it may truly be more economically feasible to eat 3 meals a day at the corner Burger King at $2 per meal than to get on the bus and trek to the nearest grocery store to spend $40 or more in one go on a week's groceries. Of course, I would say that's not eating, that's slow suicide.


It's sad that people in areas like that are basically forced to live that way. It's like that on purpose, to keep the poor masses down and "enslaved" in a way. The ingredients in garbage food is mind-numbing and addictive, therefore, you have a bunch of sheep who'll do what the People in Charge tell them to do.

I've got this idea of starting a workshop to help young folks learn about being vegetarian, show them how to cook a few things so they can fend for themselves eating-wise. I'd like to do it in neighborhoods like the one described above, those people need any help they can get to get out of the situation they're in with regards to nutrition. I like to cook, and be vegetarian, and help people--this way I can combine all 3.

[catgirl67]

I've found that if I stick to fresh produce, basic staples like rice and beans etc, and stay away from pre-packaged convienence foods, my grocery bills are about the same as before, if not a little bit lower, and I live in a very urban area.

[epski]

I think the cost-benefit analysis over the course of one's life is heavily in favor of veg*nism, considering the reduced risk of disease and expensive doctors, drugs, and surgery that come with it.

[Tesseract]

I think the cost-benefit analysis over the course of one's life is heavily in favor of veg*nism, considering the reduced risk of disease and expensive doctors, drugs, and surgery that come with it.

Very true. Unfortunately, most people don't think that long term. We seem to be much better at making short-sighted decisions.

[veganinohio]

I've found that if I stick to fresh produce, basic staples like rice and beans etc, and stay away from pre-packaged convienence foods, my grocery bills are about the same as before, if not a little bit lower, and I live in a very urban area.

I've found even the convenience foods to cost about the same (especially if you buy from Trader Joe's or buy the ones on sale at Wild Oats or Whole Foods--and something's always on sale).

But at my local grocery (Giant Eagle) the tv dinners cost pretty much the same in the general frozen and specialty foods frozen areas.