Hey, I just found this site. Here's the deal: I'm considering becoming a vegetarian.

I've been on a high-protein/low-carb diet for what seems like forever. I did this long before the Atkins Diet became a fad. The low-carb diet was like a miracle. I lost weight and kept it off. I felt so much better. So why would I mess with a "good" thing now? Because I don't like the idea of animals dying every time I want a snack. I also have religious reasons for doing this, and on top of that, a vegetarian friend has been pointing out the potential disasters of a meat-based diet. I've been on a seriously heavy meat regime for years, and want to get away from it.

However, I'm allergic to most grains...for some reason, I seem to do better with soy products than anything else. I'm currently discovering the wide world of tofu. I'm also thinking about eating more raw foods. Rice, oats or wheat are bad news for me. In my brief experimentation with replacing meat, I've already gained weight (weight I had kept off for years on the meat diet) and have had some other issues (terrible heartburn, for instance, which the low-carb diet also kept away). I want to give it a fair chance, though. I just don't want to weigh 500 pounds by Christmas.

I've heard vegetarians say that eating meat will make a person obese, but for me, the exact opposite was true. An all-meat diet made me quite thin. Tinkering with it in any way adds weight. Still, having said that, I think I'd rather be fat and humane than thin and cruel.

Any suggestions on being vegetarian while avoiding carbohydrates?

And by the way...hello!

Hello to you, too!

Truly, it's hard to avoid "carbohydrates" and be a vegetarian, but it's very easy to avoid the bad ones. No matter what your "diet" experience has been, I can guarantee you that the only thing that matters is how many calories you are taking in vs. how many you are spending. There's no magic to a meat-based diet other than it will limit your total calories. That said, now you can have a humane diet too! Concentrate on quality carbs - whole grains and lots of veggies. Both are naturally low in fat and high in fiber. Fiber helps you feel full. Also add some quality fats - nuts, avocados, olive oil - to your diet to also help you feel satisfied. You've made a wonderful decision - and you'll feel better in the long run, I guarantee! And no, you do not have to get fat!!!

Hmmmm... I have no suggestions for you right off the top of my head, I just wanted to welcome another Virgo and Baby Boomer to the board... not only that, but we share the same birthday! YAY!

There will be plenty of people who can probably provide answers or suggestions at least.

If you could provide a typical day's menu or two for us, and maybe what specific grains may cause problems (like how does barley or quinoa or spelt affect you? - is this a confirmed medical allergy and what does your Dr./Nutritionist say? Were the grains that you gained weight on whole grains or white and/or processed?)

I think it'll be a lot easier to offer suggestions if we know these specifics...
Good luck!

Congratulations on going veggie! :bobo:

Atkins is based on having the body in ketosis, right? That state is also starvation state meaning that for the amount of time you were on Atkins, your body was in functional starvation mode. Now that you're off ketosis, your body is saying "YEA! NUTRITION!" and every little thing it gets, it wants to hang on to just in case the next "starvation period" (period of ketosis) comes around. You won't be able to lose weight until you get your metabolism back to normal which might take a while but give your body time to adjust.

It's unhealthy, IMO to avoid carbohydrates completely except refined carbs which you should absolutely avoid (everybody should, ideally). Since you have a grain allergy, eating whole grain carbs is going to be a bit tricky. My suggestion is to find the grains you *can* eat because a person needs whole grain carbs to get on.

You say you do best with soy - can you eat other types of beans, too? Replace your meat with beans (and whole grains), too. Beans and whole grains are both good for keeping you feeling fuller longer, just like meat used to.

Other tips I can think of: base your diet around a wide variety of whole foods (beans/legumes, whole grains, nuts/seeds, veggies, fruits) and very little processed food or convenience food. Use extra virgin olive oil instead of margarine and regular olive oil for everything else. Drink lots of water (water with lime is especially good). Ground flax seeds or walnuts will help supplement your omega 3 fatty acids. Learn everything you can about vegetarian (or vegan) nutrition so you can make sure you're getting what you need. And don't be afraid to ask as many questions here as you need to. :)

Hope this helps. :)

Thanks for the responses, everyone! I just got back from a lunch date...I had mostly raw veggies and a nice salad with some strawberries in it.

I've got to be honest and say that I actually don't like most vegetables. But I had a mix of raw broccoli, cauliflower, yellow squash etc. and it was all right. The big thing that I just can't abide is raw onions. Bell peppers and zucchini aren't my favorites, either.

As for grains, wheat is the worst. Refined flour is a problem. Oatmeal was awful for me, and the bad part is that I actually like grains. I mean, they taste great, but the heartburn, hives, and so forth aren't worth it. Quinoa gave me heartburn, but not as bad as oats. I love the taste of rice, but I'm scared to even try it now, after the oatmeal disaster. I have some brown rice here, though. If I thought it wouldn't have any adverse effects, I could go for a brown rice and tofu stir-fry.

Yes, I can eat beans, in theory, but I'm totally scared to (then again, I'm now eating tofu, which is a bean derivative). Beans are totally forbidden on low carb diets. I like them, more or less, but don't want to screw up the whole low carb thing by eating them. I guess old habits die hard. Many's the time I've wanted a bean burrito, for instance, but it's got a flour wrapper and...well, beans. So that's right out. My favorite thing used to be potatoes, but I haven't had a potato in years. Those high-carb starches are delicious, but totally bad for the blood sugar (as I understand it). And eating stuff like that is a ticket to instant weight gain.

I love fresh fruit, by the way. Had some raw pineapple today, and it was great. As a low-carber, I wasn't supposed to have it, but I'd sometimes sneak tiny amounts of grapes and pineapple and the very, very occasional piece of raw apple. More forbidden foods...but I'll tell you this: if I thought I could live on fruit without getting big as a house, I'd give it a shot.

I was scared that I was maxing out my carbs today by eating raw broccoli and salad, but I ate it anyhow. I feel pretty good so far. Comfortable, but not full. I'm also trying to reduce portion sizes as I add more carbs to my diet. With the low-carb formula, the idea of reducing portion size is totally laughed at. If you want to eat five hamburger patties and two whole chickens in one sitting, it's totally encouraged. Meat has no carbs, so you can't possibly max out. Eat one little bean, though, and you're on the road to ruin.

As for the query about religious reasons, without going into tons of detail, I began studying with a spiritual group as a supplement to my regular religious activities. This new group is staunchly vegetarian, and at first, I thought it was weird, but the more I continued reading their reasons for avoiding meat, the more it began making sense to me. And then, one day, I was frying up some hamburger meat for a taco salad, and just started looking at the stuff up close. It didn't seem so appealing upon close scrutiny. Then I looked at my dogs. Would I eat them? Why not? What's the diff? An animal's an animal, right? The cow sizzing away in my pan was an animal, too. An animal with a soul (people keep telling me I'm silly and childlike to think that animals have souls, but I do). Discovering an entire group of people who believe that animals have souls, and that those souls exist in this mortal sphere for a good reason, was pretty intense. They feel that cutting an animal's life short prematurely just because you want a sandwich is a spiritual travesty that carries moral repercussions. I find myself agreeing more every day.

Please understand that this is all brand new to me. I grew up in a situation in which animal rights activists and vegetarians were lumped together as fanatics of the worst sort. The word "vegetarian" was almost a curse word. I was raised to believe that God gave us animals for a reason, and that reason was to provide us with the most perfect, wholesome food that man could eat, and that they're also meant for experimentation, so that we don't have to suffer. They're not like us, anyway, and if they show fear, it's just a brute animal reaction, not like our human fear. I've watched people eviscerate living fish and cut the legs off of live frogs for food, saying that they don't feel pain anyway. I disagree. I've watched many livestock animals killed for food and was teased mercilessly if I plugged my ears to drown out the sound of their screaming. And that's why I gnawed my way through a plate of raw broccoli today, when I could've just as easily had the BBQ pork plate.

Thanks for the warm welcome, and the words of encouragement. And it's so cool that I share a birthday with someone here!

I've found a couple of low-carb vegetarian websites that should prove to be helpful. I really hope I can make this work out.

A friend has told me that even if I don't do it perfectly, every meatless meal I have is a step in the right direction. I like that kind of support. I have enough people making fun of me already for giving up meat...don't need any more folks giving me grief about it. At least my husband is being supportive, thank God.

Sorry, another long post...

To address the Atkins Diet here is a Q/A from a raw vegan magazine that deals with this meat-focused diet:

Q: If fruits are high in carbohydrates, don't they run counter to the "low-carb" mania inspired by the Atkins diet?

A: With respect to Dr. Atkins, his thesis missed the mark. His first error was that he failed to distinguish between the two types of carbohydrates: simple and complex. Fruit provides simple carbohydrates from a whole food source, and cooked grains products such as bread, pasta and cereals are complex carbohydrates usually served as refined foods. Simple carbohydrates are easily digested, and their sugars are readily absorbed by the cells of the body for the use as fuel. Complex carbohydrates are more difficult to digest than simple carbohydrates. They require substantial amounts of energy in the conversion to sugar. The cooking process denatures them, making them difficult to assimulate, and toxic byproducts are created, making assimilation even more difficult. In short, they are fattening and unhealthy. By eliminating nearly all carbohydrates from the diet, Dr. Atkins ensured that the true villian, the complex carbohydrates, would not be available. By reducing total caloric intake his followers will, in fact, lose weight. The problem, however, is he threw the proverbial baby out with the bath water.
Had Dr. Atkins excluded only complex carbohydrates, and not simple ones, he would have been closer to the mark. By drastically reducing the intake of all carbohydrates, he left only proteins and fats as the primary sources of calories. Neither of these two caloronutrients provide the basis for a healthy diet when taken in such excess. Taking more than ten percent of daily calories from protein leads to acid toxemia; more than ten percent of calories from fat leads to diabetes and cardiovascular disease. If we keep those two macronutrients at about 10%, where, then, should the other 80% of calories come from? The obvious answer is fruit, the simple carbohydrate. It burns cleanly, leaving only water as residue, which is easily expelled from the body. Dr. Atkins' biggest error, however, was the goal of his diet: weight loss, instead of optimum health. Proper body weight is a beneficial byproduct of optimum health, but optimum health is not necessarily the result of a diet designed solely for weight loss. The followers of Dr. Atkins' diet will achieve their goal of weight loss, but in the process, will imperil their long-term health. His ideas about the consumption of large amounts of animal protein and fat will create millions of cases of diabetes, cancer, kidney failure and heart disease in the years to come. People will die, but at least they will die thin.

--Dr. Douglas Graham (from "Living Nutrition" Vol.16 Spring 2004)
Note from page 3 of "Living Nutrition": The information in Living Nutrition is presented solely for health education purposes. We are educators; we do not offer medical advice, and we are not responsible for the readers' actions. The readers are advised to educate themselves, and when health guidance is needed, enlist guidance from qualified health professionals.

Goatee...thanks for the response. I'm starting to feel that perhaps Atkins did miss the mark by not discussing "good" versus "bad" carbohydrates. However, he was right about the weight loss. Since getting off the strict low-carb regime a few weeks ago, I am now gaining weight like mad. It's starting to get embarrassing. However, I'm still using a lot of tofu and other soy products.

A friend of mine, also a low-carb dieter, has directed me to some rather alarming websites. To read this material, one would think that soy is carcinogenic poison. I've now found several of these sites. I think there's some anti-soy stuff here:

http://www.westonaprice.org/soy/index.html

Is this for real?

As for progress, I'm still eating fruit, soy and veggies, and trying to keep it as low-carb as humanly possible. Wondering, though, if I need to leave the soy alone?

Sorry if this repeats what some other posters have said, but in regards to the Atkins diet-no one has ever gotten fat eating apples and bananas! :nana: Low carb diets tend to rely heavily upon meats which are LOADED in saturated fats and cholesterol. They are not always the healthiest ways to lose weight as they deprive your body of its natural energy source. White flour is something to be avoided but whole grains (which I know you said you have a hard time eating), fruits and veggies are a great low fat, HEALTHY way to lose weight.

Also, do you workout? A lot of my pro-Atkins friends are so tired and sluggish all the time from all their meat consumption/lack of carbs they can't even workout. Think about all the energy you would have if you went back to eating a healthy, well balanced diet! :hump:

sabitha, you're right, atkins did miss the mark by not explaining good & bad carbs. if you would like to learn more about the difference, and the different ways your body processes them, i suggest reading the south beach diet book. imho, one shouldn't ever be on a low-carb diet; instead, they should avoid "bad" carbs as much as possible. and beans shouldn't be a no-no for you. good luck!

Goatee...thanks for the response. I'm starting to feel that perhaps Atkins did miss the mark by not discussing "good" versus "bad" carbohydrates. However, he was right about the weight loss. Since getting off the strict low-carb regime a few weeks ago, I am now gaining weight like mad. It's starting to get embarrassing. However, I'm still using a lot of tofu and other soy products.

A friend of mine, also a low-carb dieter, has directed me to some rather alarming websites. To read this material, one would think that soy is carcinogenic poison. I've now found several of these sites. I think there's some anti-soy stuff here:

http://www.westonaprice.org/soy/index.html

Is this for real?

As for progress, I'm still eating fruit, soy and veggies, and trying to keep it as low-carb as humanly possible. Wondering, though, if I need to leave the soy alone?Don't take anything you read from that site as true. He's a known anti-veg who has spouted some pretty wonky and baseless things about soy.

Your weight gain is your body's metabolism trying to put itself right. During the time you were on Atkins, you were in starvation mode (ketosis). Your body is figuring out how to function now that you're no longer in the ketone state. It's going to take a bit of time to get everything righted again because you threw your metabolism out of wack.

i eat what i consider to be a low-carb diet. My diet is mostly vegetables and fruit (predominently raw), and then beans and seeds (usually sprouted), and then nuts (raw), and then eggs and dairy (raw cheese, yogurt, and kefir--the last two are generally home-made from raw, organic milk). I occassionally have sprouted grain bread or tortillas. I rarely eat starchy foods--like potatoes. for me, they are a treat.

i prefer a 'high protien-low complex carb' diet. it works well for my system and it's easy to avoid most grains.

You might be interested in this website:

http://www.atkinsexposed.org/

i also want to say that 4evergrounded's assessment of the information from weston a price is faulty. while it is not a pro-vegetarian site, it is also not necessarily anti-vegetarian. most of their soy information is well researched. It's simply not main stream.

There are better sources of protien than many soy products--and i'm basicly soy free myself, based on the research of WAP foundation. Here is some links to disucssions on this site regarding this topic: Soy Debate: Links to Scientific Studies from Weston A Price Foundation (http://www.veggieboards.com/boards/showpost.php?p=950437&postcount=35);Soy Debate: More Links to Scientific Studies from Weston A Price Foundation (http://www.veggieboards.com/boards/showpost.php?p=950444&postcount=36); and here's a great thread started by another member of the boards who isn't affiliated with WAP who got similar information in her educational training--PSA: How Soy Turns from a Healthy Bean into Something Pretty Scary by Molly Goat (http://www.veggieboards.com/boards/showthread.php?t=39605&highlight=soy+debate). She basicly states the same thing that WAP states, but she's a vegetarian, so i guess it's considered more valid.

If you so a search for "soy debate" through this site, you'll read our history of this discussion. there are lots of threads on the topic. But, this one has the references from WAP--which are scientific studies regarding soy products, particularly soy protien isolate, soy milk, and soy formula.