Wondering about the ethics of keeping dogs outdoors...
I have a dream of buying a few acres of land, fencing it in, and keeping my (future) dogs outside. I like the idea of the dogs having freedom and not being cooped up inside a house or having to wait to be taken out. It'd also be nice for us humans, not to have dog hair all over the house.

It would probably be a largely wooded area. I would have a dog house/building/shed with dog beds and food near the house that the dogs could use to sleep in/get shelter in.

There would be 2 or more dogs at all times, so they would have company, and they would all be spayed/neutered. Ontario has very cold winters (can go down to -40) so I would have dogs that can survive in that weather like huskies.

I would have them trained well so I would still be the "head of the pack". They would come when I called them with the dog whistle, they would be gentle, etc.

I'm concerned about the dogs killing other animals. They would be on a vegan diet, but they still have the instinct to chase birds and squirrels. How big of a problem would this be? Would they kill a lot and therefore make it unfair to the other animals for them to be kept outside?

Can huskies do well in a Canadian winter? Are there any other breeds that would also be ok? Are there any special thigns I would need to do concerning the dogs and the weather? What happens to farm dogs (that sleep in the barn) during the winter?

Is anybody currently in this situation? Do you have outdoor dogs?

Also looking for general thoughts and opinions on this topic. At this point, it's just a dream, something that won't happen for 5 or 10 years if it happens at all. Suggestions are welcome.

Generally a bad idea. Dogs are social animals that derive enjoyment from human companionship.

If you want your dogs to have freedom to go in and out, I suggest a dog door.

Another point is that I feel dogs don't get the attention they deserve when only kept outdoors. It is when my dog is indoors that she gets all the lovin' and pets she wants. Whereas with a stictly outdoors dog, you may have the intention of spending lots of time with them, but do you want to be out in -40 degree weather either? Just a thought.

A dog should be a member of one's family. If the dog is not allowed in the house, then that isn't possible. In my opinion, if you don't want dog hair in your house, then you shouldn't have a dog. When I'm home, my dogs have free run of my fenced property, but, for their own safety, they are kept indoors when I'm not home. They don't seem to mind.

Ok, valid points. A few thoughts...

If a dog is kept outside from puppyhood, then that is what they are used to, and won't miss the human companionship.

MRSSHF, I like the idea of the dogs having free run of the property when I'm home, and coming inside when I'm not. That does sound safer. What things do I need to consider if this is the case?

Let's keep the original idea of this thread going. Run with the idea of the dogs staying outside 24/7/365.

Ok, valid points. A few thoughts...

If a dog is kept outside from puppyhood, then that is what they are used to, and won't miss the human companionship.

Let's keep the original idea of this thread going. Run with the idea of the dogs staying outside 24/7/365.

That's even worse.

This thread makes me uneasy because it's an inherent part of a dog's nature to be with their pack. I'd be calling the SPCA on someone that kept a young puppy outside all day, let alone keeping it outside in extreme weather. It's borders on abusive.

If you were able to provide provisions from the weather, and you lived outside with the dogs, then I think it'd be doable. But when you're inside and the dogs are outside for great portions of time, the dog will inevitably begin to feel seperated from it's pack and will often develop feelings of depression and anxiety. Dogs aren't like most other animals in that they've domesticated themselves to living with humans.

No animal is equipped to live outdoors. It's not natural. No animal should be anywhere except inside a human house. Besides, anyone who has ever been around dogs knows that they all absolutely hate going outside.

LOL Red!!

Huskies were bred to live in the Arctic. A Canadian winter should be fine for them. They have all that fur and winter fat, they are designed for the outdoors. My skinny little, human, hairless body is not designed for a Canadian winter. I would be outdoors quite a bit (this all ties into my living in the country idea) and the dogs would always have the company of the other dogs as I mentioned.

They would also be provided with a shelter of some kind which would have food, water, blankets/dogbeds, possibly some kind of heating system and anything else I thought was necessary to provide them with.

I always feel sorry for the big dogs that are kept in small homes. They can only take a few steps in any direction before they bump into things, or are commanded to get off the couch. I thought that this would be a happy solution for everyone.

Does anybody have any other comments? Maybe something positive? Or some useful suggestions to make an outdoor life even happier for the dogs?

I knew some outdoor dogs once. They drove me nuts. They were so happy whenever anyone came in the yard that all 5 of them would go bezerk all over you. Not so much because they were badly trained, they actually were well trained hunting dogs, but they loved being around people and once a day didn't cut it for them.

Some people can pull off having dogs outside 24/7 and still manage to give the dogs the attention that they deserve. But they are very few and far between and are generally the type of people do not have a life outside of their dogs.

I can only think of one person off the top of my head who might be able to pull it off, and her dogs are indoor/outdoor dogs, depending on who is out and who is in (she has multiple pitties, some of whom have to be separated from each other for safety reasons).

You seem to be contradicting yourself a little bit. You say you want to be "the head of the pack" at all times, but then you say later on


If a dog is kept outside from puppyhood, then that is what they are used to, and won't miss the human companionship.

How are you going to be head of the pack if there's no kind of bonding between you and the dogs? I'm not quite sure how that works. The head of the pack can't spend 95% of the time away from his pack, either, I don't think. That kind of defeats the purpose.

I would spend time with the dogs. Most days, I would be outside for a good chunk of the day. As most people pointed out though, there would be some days where I wouldn't be able to spend as much time with the dogs as other days. We would still spend time together, but it would probably be less time than an indoor dog spend around humans.

I said that I want to be the "leader of the pack" just to clarify that the dogs would still answer to me.

BUT... the dogs would never spend their time sitting under the table begging for food. No individual dog would ever be left home alone, bored, with nothing to do. They would be outside, together (if they chose to be), tons of space to run around and play.

If the dogs were inside dogs, a lot of my would be spent ignoring them and trying to get them to leave me alone. I would love them and want to spend time with them, but when I'm cooking dinner, tucking my future 2 year old into bed, or taking a shower, I need the dogs to be elsewhere - the same way I need the rest of my family to be elsewhere.

I think this thread is getting off topic. There were many other questions in the first post. What about how the dogs will interact with the other animals that are out there? What happens with dogs that live on farms? etc

I would spend time with the dogs. Most days, I would be outside for a good chunk of the day. As most people pointed out though, there would be some days where I wouldn't be able to spend as much time with the dogs as other days. We would still spend time together, but it would probably be less time than an indoor dog spend around humans.

I said that I want to be the "leader of the pack" just to clarify that the dogs would still answer to me.

BUT... the dogs would never spend their time sitting under the table begging for food. No individual dog would ever be left home alone, bored, with nothing to do. They would be outside, together (if they chose to be), tons of space to run around and play.

If the dogs were inside dogs, a lot of my would be spent ignoring them and trying to get them to leave me alone. I would love them and want to spend time with them, but when I'm cooking dinner, tucking my future 2 year old into bed, or taking a shower, I need the dogs to be elsewhere - the same way I need the rest of my family to be elsewhere.

I think this thread is getting off topic. There were many other questions in the first post. What about how the dogs will interact with the other animals that are out there? What happens with dogs that live on farms? etc

one of the things that you need to keep in mind is that more than one dog does not always mean that they'll entertain each other or keep each other company. Pack structure is you+dog1 and you+dog2, when you're gone, it's still you+dog1 and you+dog2. Gah! It's been a while since I explained dog pack hierachy, I'm a little rusty. Does that make sense? Could someone explain it better?

Dogs left loose alone together is a fight waiting to happen, granted some are more prone to it than others, but I've talked to people who have come home to find that their dachunds had torn each other apart during the day.
As a disclaimer, I should point out that dog fights tend to leap readily to mind for me just due to the breeds that I work with (rotties, pitties and other dominate breeds)
However, huskies, from what I've read, do fight over toys, dead things, strange looks, etc....
They also can be destructive, high strung, high energy beasts (they are awfully pretty though... :smitten: ). And more dogs does not mean that they will wear each other out. Although if you had enough property this may not be a worry.

What would be a worry is if some stray animals wandered into your yard. I can almost guarentee that you'd come home to a bloody mess; if it was something like a cat, rabbit or squirrel.

No animal is equipped to live outdoors. It's not natural. No animal should be anywhere except inside a human house. Besides, anyone who has ever been around dogs knows that they all absolutely hate going outside.

:lol:

This thread makes me uneasy because it's an inherent part of a dog's nature to be with their pack.

Couldn't their "pack" consist of other dogs? I'm confused as to why dogs would "need" their humans any more than they would need other dogs. :confused:

Hi-
I had 2 labs that got along beautifully. The male was 7 or 8 when we got the female puppy. (both were spayed/neutered) The older one showed the little one the ways of the human (dogs pee outside) and the little one helped keep the older one more physically active then we could. When Chester was getting near his time on earth, Dasiy kept a watchful eye making sure he went out when he needed (she would carry on and bark even though he barely moved) and that there was always water. And when he died she was just (if not more) upset then the humans were. She sat on the porch for days waiting for him to come home (he had been to the vet several times before passing) Now she is ok but she greived just as much as me. SO...I think dogs can be with each other without fighting. I think they should have access to the outside as often as they want. You just have to become tuned to their cues that they want to do out. And that if you have a dog as a pet it should be kept inside where everyone else is. After all that, it's only my 2cents.
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It just occured to me that there are breeds of dogs out there would are fairly aloof and would prefer to be outside and who would probably do well in canada winters....
A great pyranees (sp?) comes readily to mind, but there are others....let me see where I read about them...
Anyway, most of them are used as estate guardians or for protecting sheep.
I always thought it would be neat to have a herd of sheep and a dog that would guard them (not herd, but guard)

However, huskies . . . can be destructive, high strung, high energy beasts (they are awfully pretty though... :smitten: ).

Yes, yes, yes and yes. :p

Why do you want a dogs if you don't want them to live with you? Gee, I like taking my sister's kids to carnivals and other kid places, but soon they'll be too old to want to spend time with their aunt. Maybe I'll have a kid myself so I can ride the rides w/o looking out of place. But where can I put it when I'm tired of spending time with it?

Seriously, if you're truly the pack leader of your dogs, it is NO PROBLEM to teach them to stay out of the kitchen when you're cooking or out of the kid's bedroom at night.

If you're going to rescue a couple dogs off death row at the pound, then I'd say your plan is the better alternative. But don't expect unsupervised dogs not to chase and kill the wildlife (or even the neighbor's cat) or maybe even get into with each other. (Though a male-female combo makes that less likely.) And make sure you have a kid-proof fence. Dogs socialized with kids are great. Dogs left on their own all the time just might mistake a young, fast-moving, squealing child for prey. And I read where huskies are one of the more likely breeds to do just that.

As for having huskies or other cold-tolerant breeds, I hope you have an alternative plan for summertime. I don't know what part of Canada you live in and how warm it gets, but the same characteristics that make them love the winter will be a problem in hot weather.

Some very good points Wolfie. Thanks for bringing them to my attention.

It's not so much that I don't want dogs inside. If I was going to have inside dogs, I'd get smaller breeds and let them in/out whenever they wanted. I just thought that it would be nice for the dogs to have free run of the place. In a Canadian winter, I wold be worried that my little terrier would get stuck in the snow or something, big dogs lkike huskies I woldn't have to worry about. But then, having big dogs in the house seems kinda cruel to me, cuz they don't have much room to run around, and I'd want to properly lock up when I was sleeping/out. Hence the idea of outdoor dogs.

Anyway... the suggestions and ideas are great. Keep them coming!

Huskies definitely need to run and would definitely enjoy time outside and a wooded area to explore. I just have a problem with never letting them into the "den" with the human members of the pack.

Also, they are extremely good at figuring ways out of enclosures and they love to dig. They'll go both over and under a fence. And the more time they spend outside alone, the more time they'd have to work on such endeavors.

Dogs kept outside w/o supervision are also known targets for kids who like to tease dogs. And that might make the dogs dislike all kids in general. But I suppose that wouldn't be as much of a problem in your situation as it is in a neighborhood.

It is never a good idea to leave dogs outside 24/7. They were specifically bred to be human companions. Getting two dogs doesn't mean you have to spend less time with them. I have three dogs that are inside/outside dogs, and they love each other. They sleep together, play together, and all enjoy to spend time together. When ever I am around, they would rather be with me than each other. Even though they have all grown up together and have a special bond, they still prefer me. I had to work with my pit a lot because he seems to forget that my two labs are his friends when ever he is on my lap and they want up too. It isn't fun breaking up a fight when two of the dogs out weigh you. The bottom line is, the dogs will ALWAYS prefer you over each other and they will be extremely depressed if they are not allowed in the house with you. They need to atleast be allowed to come inside and spend time with you and escape the elements. Just because huskies CAN be in cold climates doesn't mean they like to be outside when it is below freezing. I'm sure they would rather be inside the warm house. A little dog hair on my couch is worth my dogs happiness.
When I was younger, I had an outside only dog. His name was Cody and he was a husky/collie mix. I would go outside every morning and feed and water Cody before school. Every time I would go out there, he would jump all over me. After awhile, I got tired of feeding and watering him because I knew I was going to get scratched up and muddy. My mom had to force me to do it, and after awhile she took over the duty. I would go outside to play, and get so annoyed because Cody was always jumping all over me. I liked Cody, but he was so hyper even though we had a huge yard. All he ever tried to do was dig out of the fence. One day, we accidently left the fence open and Cody ran away. We never found him. That was the first and last outside only dog I had.

*tear* It's a lovely dream.

I think keeping large dogs outdoors is fine, but not so much with little ones like Jack Russels or Sausage dogs.

I have a German Shepard and he is happy enough to be kept outside. My cousin has one of those sausage dog things (sorry not sure what they are actually called, we just call it a sausage dog.) and I dont think it's right to leave him outside since it's only small.

I think keeping large dogs outdoors is fine, but not so much with little ones like Jack Russels or Sausage dogs.

I have a German Shepard and he is happy enough to be kept outside. My cousin has one of those sausage dog things (sorry not sure what they are actually called, we just call it a sausage dog.) and I dont think it's right to leave him outside since it's only small.


daschund.

I don't believe in outdoor dogs at all. What's the point of having dogs then? However, as someone else said - if you are rescuing some dogs off death row and have more than adequate shelter and food and water - I think that's better than them being killed.

Domesticated dogs are not meant to be outside 24-7-365. Just as they are not meant to be inside 24-7-365. Generally speaking, I go by the rule, that if I wouldn't be comfortable outside (dressed for the weather), then neither would my dogs. Like kids, dogs can get themselves into all sorts of trouble when left alone too long. When dogs are left outside unsupervised, here are a few examples that have actually happened to people I know ...

1) A dog is left outside on a warm spring day with water while her person runs a quick errand. Dog tips over water dish. Person gets distracted and ends up taking longer than expected. When person comes home, she finds her dog convulsing. Dog dies on the way to vet. Cause of death = over-exposure to heat/sun mixed with dehydration.

2) Another dog is left to wander at her leisure. She's a very friendly pooch who would never harm anyone and her people have never had any luck keeping her fenced or leashed. Unfortunately, this dog is not car smart. She survived being hit full on by a car once. More recently, she had her paw crushed while walking behind a vehicle backing out of a driveway.

3) A dog is tied up in a fenced yard. Dog gets bored or sees something interesting. It jumps the fence and ends up hanging itself.

4) A dog is left in its yard. It won't run away. Its got shade and water. It doesn't walk in front of cars. It does ... bark excessively, snap at neighbors/friends when they try to get to the door, attack animals that enter its yard, get injured by other animals or people, eats whatever strange things its comes across.

I really don't see leaving a dog outside 24-7 as a responsible decision. Safety is of greater importance than boredom.