das_nut
08-27-05, 06:20 AM
Well, just recently I've been wondering if becoming a vegetarian might not be a bad idea.
I'm a young Republican, so I'm not thinking about this simply because I'm part of the recent wave of young indie-crats and emo-crats that pretend to have an interest in politics and the earth, but do little about it except attend protests. If I'm offending anyone, sorry, but I guess you know who you are.
The thing that turns me off about vegetarians is that the whole lifestyle seems very self indulgent. When you make the decision to be a vegetarian it means that you have decided that the best lifestyle a person can lead is a meatless one. However, billions of people simply don't have that kind of luxory. Poor subsistance farmers have to slaughter and eat their livestock, their survival and their children's survival depends upon it.
I have decided that the best diet I can lead is a meatless one. That doesn't mean that a starving farmer in Korea shouldn't eat his last chicken.
But even then, my lifestyle has an influence -- the world produces enough food to feed everyone. But much of that food is fed to animals to produce meat. We waste our food while people are starving to death.
I don't think that is right.
Then there is the fact that humans are made to eat other animals. We have canines designed to dig into flesh. Our stomachs can digest meat protiens and have for thousands of years.
What humans have done in the past doesn't justify your actions now. Cannibalism has a documented history for both humans and humans closest relatives. There is a strong possibility that rape was an evolutionary advantage during at least part of human and/or prehuman history. Yet few people would condone either behavior today.
Also, by its very nature, existance is destructive. Every day we are alive we kill millions of micro-organisms, swat flies, cut down trees to build houses. The only way to avoid killing other things is to stand still and just die. I know it's possible to say that a cow and a microbe are completely different things, but does it really matter? Life is life, and philosophically speaking, our human existence is extremely destructive whether or not we choose to make it so. In fact, the atoms and molecules in my body are little bits and pieces of the earth that could have gone into creating other animals, but instead, they are a part of me, and as long as I am alive, nothing can be made out of my bits and pieces.
A cow does have a brain that seems capable of sensing and reacting to the world around it. From what we know about neurology and biology, it is likely that a cow can feel pain and that a cow can suffer.
Microbes do not have any "brains" that we know of. They are not sentient, and neither are plants. Of course, through our actions, some animals will die. But, morally, there is a difference between inadvertant death and planned killing. If you are walking down the street and your yellow T-shirt distracts someone, causing a fatal accident, that is not a crime. If you had shot that person directly, that would be a crime.
That being said, I still am reluctant to continue eating meat. I could not kill a cow. I don't know if this is because I have lived a sheltered and spoiled life, or if it is for some other reason.
My question then, is what everyone's reasoning behind becoming a vegetarian is. I'm not looking for "animals are cute and I feel a special connection" type answers. For me, that simply isnt's satisfying enough. I am very interested in philosophy and think that all good actions require good reasons, so, if anybody has some, I'd appreciate to hear them.
From what I've seen of dogs and cats, I have no problem with believing they are capable of planning, of organized play, of depression, dreaming, of feeling joy and pain. They can think. While they are nowhere near the intelligence of man, they are far from Voltaire's Mindless Automations.
I don't want to kill something which is an individual, and it is my theory that mammals are capable of being individuals. Birds seem to have personalities. That rules out both those groups. I haven't studied reptiles, amphibians, fish or insects enough to figure out if they are are capable of understanding pain and suffering, but I want to err on the side of caution.
From a human rights perspective, humans waste food by feeding it to farm animals rather than feeding it to the hungry. I'm uncomfortable with that.
From a health perspective, a vegan diet can be quite healthy with only slightly more effort than a healthy omnivous diet. I'm planning on living a long time, and diet contributes to health. A plant-based diet is healthier than a meat-centric diet, as most nutritionists will tell you. While a good vegan diety may not be healthier then a good omnivorous diet, it isn't less healthy either.
Plus being vegan confuses people. Obviously, as a young republican, you can understand the draw of that. :)
I'm a young Republican, so I'm not thinking about this simply because I'm part of the recent wave of young indie-crats and emo-crats that pretend to have an interest in politics and the earth, but do little about it except attend protests. If I'm offending anyone, sorry, but I guess you know who you are.
The thing that turns me off about vegetarians is that the whole lifestyle seems very self indulgent. When you make the decision to be a vegetarian it means that you have decided that the best lifestyle a person can lead is a meatless one. However, billions of people simply don't have that kind of luxory. Poor subsistance farmers have to slaughter and eat their livestock, their survival and their children's survival depends upon it.
I have decided that the best diet I can lead is a meatless one. That doesn't mean that a starving farmer in Korea shouldn't eat his last chicken.
But even then, my lifestyle has an influence -- the world produces enough food to feed everyone. But much of that food is fed to animals to produce meat. We waste our food while people are starving to death.
I don't think that is right.
Then there is the fact that humans are made to eat other animals. We have canines designed to dig into flesh. Our stomachs can digest meat protiens and have for thousands of years.
What humans have done in the past doesn't justify your actions now. Cannibalism has a documented history for both humans and humans closest relatives. There is a strong possibility that rape was an evolutionary advantage during at least part of human and/or prehuman history. Yet few people would condone either behavior today.
Also, by its very nature, existance is destructive. Every day we are alive we kill millions of micro-organisms, swat flies, cut down trees to build houses. The only way to avoid killing other things is to stand still and just die. I know it's possible to say that a cow and a microbe are completely different things, but does it really matter? Life is life, and philosophically speaking, our human existence is extremely destructive whether or not we choose to make it so. In fact, the atoms and molecules in my body are little bits and pieces of the earth that could have gone into creating other animals, but instead, they are a part of me, and as long as I am alive, nothing can be made out of my bits and pieces.
A cow does have a brain that seems capable of sensing and reacting to the world around it. From what we know about neurology and biology, it is likely that a cow can feel pain and that a cow can suffer.
Microbes do not have any "brains" that we know of. They are not sentient, and neither are plants. Of course, through our actions, some animals will die. But, morally, there is a difference between inadvertant death and planned killing. If you are walking down the street and your yellow T-shirt distracts someone, causing a fatal accident, that is not a crime. If you had shot that person directly, that would be a crime.
That being said, I still am reluctant to continue eating meat. I could not kill a cow. I don't know if this is because I have lived a sheltered and spoiled life, or if it is for some other reason.
My question then, is what everyone's reasoning behind becoming a vegetarian is. I'm not looking for "animals are cute and I feel a special connection" type answers. For me, that simply isnt's satisfying enough. I am very interested in philosophy and think that all good actions require good reasons, so, if anybody has some, I'd appreciate to hear them.
From what I've seen of dogs and cats, I have no problem with believing they are capable of planning, of organized play, of depression, dreaming, of feeling joy and pain. They can think. While they are nowhere near the intelligence of man, they are far from Voltaire's Mindless Automations.
I don't want to kill something which is an individual, and it is my theory that mammals are capable of being individuals. Birds seem to have personalities. That rules out both those groups. I haven't studied reptiles, amphibians, fish or insects enough to figure out if they are are capable of understanding pain and suffering, but I want to err on the side of caution.
From a human rights perspective, humans waste food by feeding it to farm animals rather than feeding it to the hungry. I'm uncomfortable with that.
From a health perspective, a vegan diet can be quite healthy with only slightly more effort than a healthy omnivous diet. I'm planning on living a long time, and diet contributes to health. A plant-based diet is healthier than a meat-centric diet, as most nutritionists will tell you. While a good vegan diety may not be healthier then a good omnivorous diet, it isn't less healthy either.
Plus being vegan confuses people. Obviously, as a young republican, you can understand the draw of that. :)