I'm wondering if anyone identifies with the following or if anyone has any thoughts on the following:

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Because we are failures in our endless attempts to eliminate dukkha (affliction), we adopt dysfunctional strategies. We hide our feelings and fear to give ourselves away by asking for help. People go about their lives in denial, pretending all is well. We keep up a front. Other people all seem to be alright. Only we ourselves seem to have troubles. So we pretend to be alright too and feel fraudulent. 'Other people think I am strong and that I have got my life together, but I know that inside I am weak and a mess'. This, or something very like it, is the secret conviction of millions of people. The reason that other people all seem to be doing all right is that they are pretending, too.

From the book "The Feeling Buddha" by David Brazier
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I'm posting this here because I think it relates directly to relationships, friendships and family. I'm amazed that as I get to know people more and more that they are more willing to share their weaknesses and strange quirks -- even those people who before seemed to have it all together. In fact, I often find that those people who seem the most together are really putting on the most intricate facade but they are only found out when everything falls apart.

I also find it interesting, for instance, that this one guy I know is all into poetry and the meaning of life and stuff and we'll talk about all that but he won't reveal this part of himself to his hockey buddies. And I guess I won't either. My hockey friends are just that -- hockey friends. Although some of them are both -- life friends and hockey friends. But don't those hockey people also have that depth to them?

My hockey friends are just that -- hockey friends. Although some of them are both -- life friends and hockey friends. But don't those hockey people also have that depth to them?

Sure, but just because a person has that depth doesn't mean they want to reveal it to you.

Yes, of course, I guess I didn't word that very well. I mean I think that all people have depth to them including hockey players.

The thing with jocks is that they seem to be people who have to have the appearance of being strong and it is still not acceptable in our society for sports people to show weakness. But then I meet this hockey player who is also a poet and I can guarantee that no one in the dressing room knows he's a poet. And if someone did find out he was a poet no one would ask him to read one of his poems before or after the game. We never would talk about any sensitive type subject.

But I know that it isn't just the jocks who don't reveal their insecurities. I know that outside of hockey (and inside) I am also keeping up my facade. It seems like others do have it all together but then when I get to know them more deeply I find out they don't. But I still have some kind of strange perception that all those others do. I don't know -- it's all so strange. So many people walking around hurt and alone but unable to tell others. And so then we feel even more alone. But I know that the percentage of the population taking meds for anxiety and/or depression is on the rise.

It might not just be a product of gender/sports roles. Technology can dictate how and what people say. (A lá the books Technopoly and Amusing Ourselves to Death.)

I realized years back the idea of how people internalize things that will just make things worse in time, and how people act as if they are fine when things are not. How people pretend to be part of things that mean nothing.

I have since kept in mind to be myself at all times and not to feel like I need to hide things or be part of a trend to fit in. This includes being wrong. There is nothing bad about being wrong, except where you refuse to sdmit that you are. If I fail at something, I'm not concerned because I will learn more about how not to fail something.

I try my best to be as real as possible, and that usually pushes a lot of people away. At the same time, I usually befriend people that aren't desturbed by my open intimacy quickly. It's sort of a filter, if they can handle who I am when they meet me, they can't be shocked by something I haven't said, because I'm not hiding anything.

I am another person who hides themselves even though I am naturally quite sociable and loud. I have been let down by a lot of friends and find it hard to really be me around people because I have got so used to hiding. I am making an effort to change that because I am going to university soon and need to make friends, so there is still hope.
What you have said is very true.

i have boundaries--and that's important.

but otherwise, i'm honest. what you see is what you get. but, because of my boundaries, i may not reveal certain things to certain people at certain times. This doens't mean that i'm hiding or trying to be 'other' but that i don't feel it is safe or appropriate for me to be completely open all the time with that individual (or group of individuals). this is also appropriate.

Interesting topic. Psychology + sociology + interpersonal communications. Right up my alley!

There are two sides to this subject. Let's use a new (dating) couple as an example.

1. Most people hide who they are at the beginning of a relationship and only expose their true selves months later. This results in the "honeymoon period". Of course, there's more to the honeymoon phase, but that's the basics of it. It takes 3 months or so to really discover a person. The discovery process goes on for the rest of your time together, but around the 3 month mark is the big discovery period. This is why a lot fo relationships end aroudn 3 months. you find out that the person you're dating isn't who you thought they were.

2. If you go into a new relationship bearing all, the other person is not used to this. We are used to people having walls up, and don't expect to learn everything right away. It will still take them 3 months to realize that this person they are dating is actually who they appear to be. These relationships can still end after 3 months, because the friendly person they thought they were dating is actually exactly what they appeared. They weren't extra frienly to you, they are just friendly to everyone. suddenly you realize that they weren't trying to impress you in the first few months, you truly are never going to have a quiet evening out.


As much as I'd like to say that I show my true self when I first meet people, I know I don't. I don't lie to people. I am very open about being vegan, and if asked, I will give the honest answer to most questions. However, at work, I'm not going to talk about my personal life, and I try to be sensitive to other people's interests, and won't go on for hours about work to my friends if they don't appear interested. I know this is exactly what you mean though. so back on topic...

As much as I'd like to show my true self in a first meeting, I don't. People are expecting a facade and a chance to learn about me gradually. I want to make a good impression like anyone else does. I've spent so many years putting up a false front, that I don't think I know how to instantly expose myself.

I don't think it's bad thing to put up a front. I have friends for different purposes and I don't see any problem with that. With some we gossip and go out dancing, with others we have deep intellectual discussions. I know that everyone has different levels to them, and have discussions of all types. The deciding factor on what our discussion will be on is the way we naturally interact with each other.

Also, keep in mind that people and relationships change over time. You many find that the interactions between you and your hockey buddies changes dramatically when you go through something together. If one breaks a leg, or gets married, the experience may open the door for differnt types of communication.

Sorry for rambling. Hope it makes some kinda sense.

I agree with a lot of what abc said, but I disagree a bit with the wording. I, too, react differently to different people. However, I don't see that as "putting up a front" which implies that I am somehow hiding who I am. Rather, the point is simply that there isn't any pure, objective "you" being hidden by some "front". Rather, it appears to me that different "fronts" you show to different people is just an appreciation, by you, for who the people you are dealing with are. In short, I just don't think there's any "you in a vacuum"; you will always socialize in the presence of other people, and what you know about those people will always influence your actions towards them. Therefore it is meaningless to discuss some sort of false front when dealing with different people, because there's no truth behind it to make it false.

Not to say that people can't put up facades, where they react as if they themselves were a different person. However, I see that as being different from the various reactions you make to different people.

that may explain why after 8 years, my husband and i are still 'honeymooning.' when i first started dating, i told myself that i wouldn't hide who or what i was in order to attract or keep someone. either someone was going to like me for who i am, or they weren't. if i didn't show them who i was, right away, then that would be false to them and false to me.

i guess he really does like me for who i am then. . .:)

I have it all together, I just forgot where I put it. :yes:

Very interesting stuff. So much to respond to but I don't have the time right now. But I am wondering about life on the whole. I mean I do see the purpose of not revealing everything right away but I do wonder if we (our society) has taught us to perhaps be more ashamed of who we are than we should be. And I know that some people have been able to throw off some of this but I know that so many people, myself included, are afraid of being ashamed of so many things that are so basic to our humanity. We all go through tough times but it's almost like we have to pretend that we don't.

How about this question: How many of you, if you felt like singing while walking down the road, would do so in hearing range of strangers.

I wouldn't sing loud enough for strangers to hear me while walking down the street unless I was drunk or with a group of people who were also singing (mob mentality).

I agree with you, goatee, that society teaches us to hide things that are basic to humanity. Not only things like going through a hard time, but also farting, and other natural bodily things. I'm sure I'm not the only one who won't just roll out of bed and walk out the door, or who's caught myself sucking in my stomach a wee bit when walking up to someone I like. I'm not one who cares a lot about how I look, but I would be waaaaay too self-conscious walking down the street with my hair sticking in every direction.

Damn society got inside my head!

I am another person who hides themselves even though I am naturally quite sociable and loud. I have been let down by a lot of friends and find it hard to really be me around people because I have got so used to hiding. I am making an effort to change that because I am going to university soon and need to make friends, so there is still hope.
What you have said is very true.

Actually going to a university is a great oppurtunity to just open up and actually get enough support and community to be very confident in who you are. I had a great time in college (what we Americans call it, even though it is University).

I have not been very together lately, and I know it's partially my fault. I'm moving away from my parents and into an apartment (or flat) with my boyfriend. Lots of things are going to change and my body and mind are reacting. Part of me just wants it over with, while another part understands this is just another part of life to draw knowledge from.

How about this question: How many of you, if you felt like singing while walking down the road, would do so in hearing range of strangers.

I "sing" all the time - very quietly and to myself... but other people can occasionally hear me... much to the annoyance of my children...:rolleyes:

Tht's not to say I MEAN to sing or am concious that I'm doing so - it's sorta an under-my-breath unconcious habit like whistling to ones self...when I notice I'm doing it, I shut up immediately.

I enjoy singing though - I never burst spontaneously into loud singing because that'd be annoying to people around me - but If I "felt" like singing aloud, I wouldn't care if strangers heard me ...

I'm the type to sing whenever I feel like it, except when I think it will annoy someone else. Considering that I'm a singer/songwriter, I think that was an easy question for me. Hell, I've sung naked in front of hundreds of people many times before.

Reference:
http://99centspecial.howdymusic.com/99downs.htm

I think it's fine not to reveal yourself completely to everyone you encounter as long as you're revealing yourself to someone. I definitely have bounderies with most people. For instance, I share certain personal information with my college students, but I'm not going to reveal my innermost thoughts and feelings to them because it's just not appropriate and could lead to a lot of problems in the classroom. That doesn't mean I'm putting up a facade. I'm still myself, I'm just not sharing all of myself with them. I share much more of myself, obviously, with my bf, but still not every single thought and feeling. It's ok to hold something back just for yourself as long as you're not living a lie.

In regards to "having it all together," no one does. Sure, some people are healthier and happier than others, but everyone has their own fears and anxieties. I find that once you get to know people, you start to see that eveyone's f%@#d up to some extent. It's simply impossible to have no emotional baggage.

I'm sure I'm not the only one who won't just roll out of bed and walk out the door, or who's caught myself sucking in my stomach a wee bit when walking up to someone I like. I'm not one who cares a lot about how I look, but I would be waaaaay too self-conscious walking down the street with my hair sticking in every direction.

Damn society got inside my head!


LOL!!!

Ok, how about these questions:

If you break your leg would you be ashamed of telling someone?

If you broke your mind (ie a nervous breakdown) would you be ashamed of telling someone?

If you broke your immune system (ie became sick with the flu) would you be ashamed to tell someone?

I wish I could respond to all the posts here because I find them all fascinating. I wish I could hear tofu n sprouts and exit singing in the street. I love it when people are walking along and singing.

I haven't responded to anything else in this thread because there's just so much to read through! But I'll answer these questions..

If you break your leg would you be ashamed of telling someone?

I wouldn't just attempt to live with a broken leg. I'm actually proud of my clumsiness, so no, I wouldn't be ashamed.

If you broke your mind (ie a nervous breakdown) would you be ashamed of telling someone?

This has happened to me, and it was in front of a LOT people over a period of time, at school and at home.. so obviously there was no way to not avoid telling someone. But yes, I was ashamed of not having my life together. Up until then I'd acted like I was fine, even though I was dealing with anxiety and depression, and then it built up too much and I couldn't pretend to be okay anymore.

If you broke your immune system (ie became sick with the flu) would you be ashamed to tell someone?

No, I'd need to tell someone for my own sanity, and probably for everyone else's health so they wouldn't catch anything from me.

I wish I could respond to all the posts here because I find them all fascinating. I wish I could hear tofu n sprouts and exit singing in the street. I love it when people are walking along and singing.

Haha, ditto!! I envy people who can start singing without realising it, or who can walk around in public singing as loud as they can without being embarrassed, even if they sound bad! Your questions really make me think.. if I'm not afraid to be myself when it comes to the things in the questions above, why can't I be myself 100% of the time? There's something to work on.. being more carefree. :yes:

Great answers Cass. I find it so fascinating that we are "allowed" to have physical breakdowns but not mental ones. I've had many now because of my illness (Adrenal Burnout Syndrome) and really they are similar to physical breakdowns -- I get way overtired and I can't function. But if I get physically run down I feel no shame. And we are body, mind and soul (if you believe in souls).

My friend had a great way of unmasking herself. She and a friend would challenge each other to do things such as singing a song to a stranger.

I agree, especially when mental breakdowns can be unavoidable! When I had my big meltdown a couple years ago, I was kind of surprised at how differently people looked at me! I think they were kind of shocked, because I spent the entire day in a nurse's office crying, and it just wasn't like me to start crying in public.. I left public school the same day and have been homeschooling since, and haven't kept in touch with anyone. I'm kind of curious to know what people were thinking had happened, lol.

My friend had a great way of unmasking herself. She and a friend would challenge each other to do things such as singing a song to a stranger.
Isn't that like "truth or dare" in a way?

I don't really get what you the OP means by "all together".

I don't think I know of a single person who has every aspect of his/her life perfect. I personally am doing well in certain areas, but working towards goals in others. Heck, I've had Depression... a long term illness is generally not "all together".

However, if you measure using some standards, my life is pretty put together. I have a kid, a wife, and new baby on they way. I have a job that pays for me to do work that is both interesting and easy, and I have lots of future prospects. I get to travel, and vacation often. I am in great shape, and I am well respected in my community.

I don't have a facade of being "perfect". However, I also don't let people in closely unless they are good friends... and then, I only let people in to certain areas of my life. I have hundreds of aquaintances, and many people who'd say they are my friend. I am happy with that set-up. I don't think that the OP's suggestion that everyone be open about every small disclosure of their lives is a good policy in a social world.

The thing about the original post is that it is unclear. I measure it, perhaps egotistically, by where I fit and those most close to me fit... the fit just isn't clear to me. I, and my closest friends, fit in certain areas, but have a lot of work to do in others. Heck, the same is the case for successful movie stars, business people, and just about everyone I can think about. Even MLK Jr. didn't have every aspect of his life "perfect".

In what way does the original poster mean "all together"? Emotionally? Physically? Monetarily? Socially? Ethically? Spiritually? Because some areas just don't matter as much to some people and other areas mean the whole world to the person who doesn't have it "all together".

Please elaborate.

Took me a while to stop caring about what other people thought of me. Years. I was always the one in school that *tried* to fit in. I didn't understand it. No matter what I did, I was always on the outside. It wasn't what I said, it was who I was. I wasn't being myself, and maybe that was what people saw. I still can't say, it's very odd to think about it in retrospect, I can see it, but only guess as to why people acted like they did.

Anyway, I rebelled instead of conforming, in college I 'found' myself, lived without my parents for the first time, and made new friends. It was my first time I could grow. In 1991, I began writing music more than before and soon after college took to the stage. From there I let it all out. I shouted, I screamed, I handed out ice cream.

People didn't know what to think, but from the first show, I knew I was on to some serious therapy. That show I met my drummer-to-be and now one of my best friends. I've grown so much from that time. I've learned to be myself with no fear of consiquence.

So go nuts, scare people by being open, confuse them by refusing to chit-chat about the weather and bring up a serious topic like blood diamond, teenage pregnacy, the effects of global warming. You soon might find some people are really not worth the time to talk to while others might respect you for being bold and open.

Go sing now.

Hi xrodolfox,

I guess I wrote the title to this thread as a way of drawing people in to this discussion. Personally I believe what other people have already written in this thread -- that no one has it "all together". But as the author of the book I quoted says, many people who are going through tough times look around and get the impression that everyone else is doing well when in fact many people at this time are suffering and everyone will go through a tough time at some points in his/her life so why should we be ashamed to be going through a tough time at this particular moment? Or why reflect on a past tough time and feel shame?

I'm glad things are going well for you at this time in your life. I believe in the joy and wonder of life but I also believe as St. John of the Cross says about growing internally through the dark nights of the soul. It's a balance in the ebb and flow of life.

Exitof99, you say "Go sing now". Cass, you are wondering if I was referring to a version of "truth or dare". Yes.

So I'm wondering if anyone is into a game of dare. Someone has to think of something that the veggieboarders can do to challenge the mask wearing culture we are in. It has to be legal and not humiliating (I know that's a subjective word). Then the people who actually go through with it can post the experience back here. But it must be stated here and now that there are a lot of people in general who feel challenged by others who step out so beware of such people. They can even be violent. I also want to say right now that due to my illness I likely won't be able to play. But I would if I was well because I think it's funny to do weird stuff.

Ok, how about this for a first challenge: go to a city park and hug a tree. Trees love that and you may find it wonderful to connect with life in this way. I hugged trees when I went for my walks in Germany. But never in a city park. I did do it downtown once but I had to pretend that I was just looking at something on the tree, lol.

Third person to post on this subject gets to think of the next dare.

But please don't do something you aren't comfortable with if you really don't want to do it. Doing challenging things with a friend is often easier.