I am. I don't think my husband knows what to make of me now. Well, my decisons. Sometimes he seems supportive just becasue it's me, his wife, other times, not so much. Like most ominis (and I was there once, too), he doesn't realize what meat can be hiding in. On the one hand, he's quick to point out veggie burgers to me, since they are listed with the burgers. (At least he was when we took our trip to Philadelphia and NYC.) On the other hand, he doesn't think when surprising me with dinner or deciding on where to eat.

Tonight at a dinner party we went to, he suggested the baked beans. Baked beans generally have meat in them. I told him, "If they're from a bar-be-que joint, they're going to have meat in them." The hostess was more gracious it seemed.

Thursday he surprised me with taking me to an overpriced, overfancy restaurant. There were a few vegetarian appetizers and salads and one entree. The entree (which I ordered) was $19 of fancified vegetables artistically arranged on a plate. Yay. It was good, but not $19 good. I don't even remeber what it all was. Food wise, I was satisfied, but would have walked out of the restaurant full if we had gone to say, TGI Fridays' which sells a Gardenburger and meatless pasta. (Friendly's and Denny's also has veggie burgers.) I just don't get my husband. I just don't like spending any more money than necessary and $80 for one dinner was at least $50 more than necessary. (I should have suggested that we leave as soon as I saw the prices.)

Tonight he commented on my skinniness. He said that when he sees me laying in bed and sees my bones sticking out, then maybe I'm too thin (or something like that.) I thought something like, "Kinda makes ya wonder, eh?" My husband eats a lot of processed food, including meat. (I think he had like two bbq sandwhiches tonight. At least.) Blah. He's only 28 and already had one heart attack scare, you would think he'd learn, but he's gained more weight since. I do not want my kids to have a fat father, especially one who has to reach for an inhalor while chasing them around the yard. (He has an inhalor already and sometimes uses it after climbing the 38 stairs to our apartment.)

I needed to vent.

Anyway...

Any others like me? How do you deal? What about kids?

I'm just certain that I'm not the only one married to an omni and thought maybe I could start a vent/support thread. Y'know, all of the stuff we sometimes wish we could say to our spouse, but love them too much to do so....

How long have you been veg*n? He might adjust with time.

I was vegan for a while before marrying my husband (we were together for 5.5 years, and have been married for 6 months), but when we started dating I was just not eating red meat. He was a little uncertain when I started transitioning to vegan, and one of the things that concerned him was the fact that we wouldn't be able to share food that often, and that it'd be a little more complicated when going out to eat. We adjusted, however, and now he's great about it. He's also become a good label-reader, and knows what to look for.

While he still loves ham and cheese sandwiches (blech), he will eat more veggie-friendly food, like tofu, veggie burgers, etc. He's also discovered that he loves spinach.

No kids. We're 23, and don't want to go down that path for quite a while, if ever. I refuse to cook him meat (this is a recent thing, I finally put my foot down a couple of months ago. He was disappointed, but said that he understood), but I will do quick things like put milk in his coffee if I'm making us coffee, or make him a ham and cheese sandwich.

I don't like going out to eat that much. I prefer to make my own foods, but my husband, like yours, likes to go out to eat. We generally go to chinese food places, or Ruby Tuesday, places where I know what they have for me and what to ask for. I don't understand why people like eating out so much, but I was raised differently. My family rarely went out to eat, and if we did go for fast food, we didn't get meals. It was a treat, not food.

With my husband, his family are fast food nuts, and he was raised on Burger King and processed foods. He also doesn't know how to cook as well as I do. Is that true for your husband, too? I find that if people know how to cook (and like it), they'll do it more often than eating out.

i'm also married to an omni. it's no problem.

at first, it was a bit of a problem, but not necessarily because of the logistics. My husband basicly works from the assumption that people *should* behave "optimally" including seeking out a diet that is "optimal" and leads to "optimal health." unfortunately, he doesn't think that vegetarianism is optimal or leads to optimal health (i don't either--semantics). so, of course he had this 'concern for my health.'

even more 'insidious' was another thing he lobbed at me early on about how he was 'afriad i was just buying an agrument, not thinking, not looking for what's best, what's optimal.' and i just looked at him and asked him if he thought i was stupid and i needed him to make decisions for me because he has a 'male mind.' he said no. I asked him if he thought it would be insulting if his mother told him that weight training leads to people looking "ugly and fat" (anything other than runner-skinny is fat to her, and even though she's not runner-skinny, she won't consider herself 'fat.') and that she was afriad that he was not doing the appropriate research to determine a healthy exercise regime. Since this is a common occurance from his mother, he admitted that such an accusation is insulting. He also recognized that i, like he, am one of the better researched people out there. I practically thrive on research.

so, after a couple of little bumps like that, the process actually became quite simple and he was very helpful.

At this point, we're still debating the issue of children. Certainly, the pregnancy will be vegetarian. I would like to maintain a vegetarian diet for the children after their birth because of my particular spiritual stance on their spiritual needs (karmicly and otherwise). I want them to be old enough to understand what they are choosing, karmicly and otherwise, when deciding to consume meat. Not a 'hellfire and brimstone' approach (such as 'eating animals is bad, wrong, evil! you'll get bad karma!'), but rather from a perspective of--'if you choose this, this is the consequence on the larger scale. It's ok for you to choose it, if it is right for you and you are willing to accept those consequences.' I think that many people are willing and able to accept that karmic aspect, and therefore i have no qualms with them eating meat. If my children were to accept that, then i would have no qualms with them eating meat.

My husband, on the other hand, thinks primarily about physical body-optimalness. Whenever you substract a food source from your diet, you're subtracting that source for all of the nutrients that the source has to offer. Meat, from the right sources, has a lot of nutrients to offer--nutrients that are healthy for growing human bodies. From his perspective, it is important to provide the chlidren with the 'optimal' diet with a broad spectrum of resources from which they can gain the most nutritional benefit. While he agrees that a 'healthy diet' can be gained from vegetarianism, he feels that an even healthier diet comes from a well planned omnivorous diet (that's his diet, a well planned omni diet). He isn't thinking about the karmic elements.

so, in a way, we're at a bit of a stalemate. I don't want to foist a karmic responsibility onto my children simply because of our western context; he doesn't want to subtract nutrient sources from their diet that may improve or provide 'optimal' health. While he sees and respects the karmic element for himself, what he doesn't see is that he cannot accept that element 'on behalf of' his children. What if they don't want to bear that karmic element--retroactively (as i am) or otherwise? To me, it makes sense to let them decide for themselves when they can make that sort of decision.

as for things i say to my spouse--i say anything. truthfully, i'm really lucky. my husband is far from a 'typical' omni. he's a very thoughtful, spiritually driven, intellegent, and compassionate man. he's also very open to criticism (as i am from him). So, if i think he's thinking, acting, or being stupid, i just say so. He reciprocates. i think that kind of communication is important--if you can keep the egos out of it.

our debates about child-diets are interesting. i want to raise the children lacto-vegetarian (perhaps lacto-ovo) and he wants them to be omni. Ah well, we have a few years yet. I'm still holding to the karma element. i think spirit trumps body unless body has something to say about that.

Well I'm not married but might as well be.I have been with my BF for 7 years and we have two girls.I went veg during my second pregnancy last year.he has supported me other than the occasional ribbing.He knows I won't cook meat at all for anyone,and I won't touch it to clean it up or whatever.If he wants meat he has to cook it himself.Except lunchmeat for some reason I don't mind making his sandwiches for lunch.I think because he works really really hard and making his lunch is a small way for me to say I appreciate it.He listens to all the advice I give him about his diet,but hasn't joined me yet.However he does completely support my feeding our kids healthy foods,so he hides his junk food so our oldest isn't always at it.

Regarding kids,our philosophy is a work in progress.Nothing is set in stone.Originally I wanted my kids to be vegetarian no exception.Since then I have come to the conclusion that it will be better for my four year old to make the decision for herself.Mostly to combat a rebellion.She is very independent.(I mean fearcely independent)I only cook vegetarian dinners and she eats pretty well.She knows why it is better for her.The instances of asking Daddy for some of his sausage has declined almost 100% and she now delights in telling everyone around her she is a vegimatarian.She declines it when people offer it to her,most of the time,and I have noticed that 75% when she takes it she doesn't eat it.

So maybe I'm pretty lucky.

I am married & he still eats meat I havent had any problems although sometimes hes says some of the stuff I eat looks weird :D I get him to try different thing sometimes & for the most part he says its not bad but he could never go no meat.

My daughter (16) and I are vegetarian, my son (20) and husband are omni.

My husband cracks me up. I'll go on about all the reasons - environmental and cruelty wise - to be vegetarian and he shakes his head, agrees, deeply agrees. Then he bites into his burger.

They both eat vegan meals at dinner. Although a lot of times my son is absent at that time.

I'm engaged to a (sort of) omni. Technically, he's an omni, and will have the occaisonal hamburger (like once a month or so). I asked him the other night if he missed living with an omni woman and he said he kinda likes it this way, since we're both eating way healthier than we were before.

My husband is also an omni. I made the veg*n switch after we got married. He's very considerate--I've offered to cook meat for him and he says no. Whenever we go out to eat, he makes sure it's someplace that I'll get something to eat and he's the first to tell people that I'm a vegetarian. At first, I think he was skeptical and worried that I'd try to force him into being veg*n, but it's been 6 months and he knows that's not the case. We tend to eat separate meals now, but have decided that when we have kids we'll eat as a family. I'll allow meat and he'll eat more veggies.

My husband was a hard core, meat-and-potatoes omni when I decided to go veg. It didn't take very long before I couldn't stand to have dead animals in the house. So I converted him. It was surprisingly easy to get him to start walking the path because he loves our dogs so much, and he saw my point about "What's the difference between a dog and a pig?"

He's still an omni because he still eats fish. He eats fish less and less often now that he is starting to notice that our Coi have individual personalities (we did not purchase the fish; they came with the house), but he still eats it once in awhile. Other than the fish, he eats ovo-lacto. I make some allowances for that; there are currently locally grown, cruelty-free eggs in the refrigerator, and he can purchase cheese or clam chowder if he wants. I will cook him eggs. I will not cook any other animal products. Recently, a family friend sent him gourmet crab cakes. He cooked a few of them, and I thought I would gag from the smell. He was sympathetic, and he won't be cooking the rest when I'm at home, and he told his friend, "Thanks for the crab cakes. They were a delicious treat, but please don't send more because the smell really bothers my wife."

His goal is to be Vegan. He struggles with food addiction issues, so this is a difficult transition for him. I recognize that and cut him some slack.

I recognize that I am very lucky. Everyone in a veggie/omni relationship needs to set up their own ground rules and make their own compromises.

Oh lord. I just typed out a long thing and then lost it. :furious:

Anyway, here goes again... I'm not married, but my bf and I are just starting to live together and it looks like it's heading in that direction, so I'm glad you started this thread. Like zoebird's husband, my bf is not your typical omni. He doesn't eat meat every day, he's environmentally conscious, saves stray kitties and gets them vaccinated and fixed, etc. He has a different philosophy about meat eating than I do, although he respects my choices as well. He even brags to other people about my diet and sometimes comes to vegan gatherings I go to. If he gave me a hard time about being vegan I don't think we'd be together.

However, I'm not overly fond of having meat and dairy in the house, and if he cooks eggs and sausage in the morning (very rarely) I have to leave the house because the smell of those particular foods can literally make me vomit. Luckily, as I said, he's not a huge meat eater. I guess my tolerance of his meat eating is due to my own philosophical stance. I don't believe that eating meat and other animal products is unnatural or immoral as some vegans do. I just don't feel right using animal products when I don't have to. I don't adhere to veganism with religious fervor--it's just the way I've chosen to live. As a result, I can tolerate meateating loved ones as long as they're thinking about the amount of meat they eat and where it comes from (ie. factory farms vs. alternative sources).

Regarding children... I plan to have a vegan pregnancy and I don't see myself ever feeding a child animal products. However, this hypothetical child will also have a father who has the right to give the child meat if he wants to. I think my stance is that, while I will only make vegan foods, the child will eventually have to decide how he or she wants to live. I won't be able to control everything in that child's environment. Just like I would never impose a religion or a political philosophy on a child, I wouldn't require a child to be vegan. Through my example, however, the child would be exposed to veganism and I would hope it would have some impact on how the child lives the rest of his or her life. Luckily, my bf and I agree that it's not good to feed cow's milk to children. That's something!

i'm married to an omni too, and it's not a problem. i was vegetarian for a few years before i met him, and while we were dating i told him flat out that i would never go back to eating meat (and he told me that he would never go veggie). HOWEVER, i would say 90% of the time we eat vegetarian at home, since we cook a lot together. he is really really supportive, and i couldn't be with a better man. when on vacations, we try to go to vegetarian places to try them out (nyc was fun) and he is even more "adventurous" when we're grocery shopping than i am (he even reads the labels for me)! sometimes he will cook some meat for himself (like bacon, sausage, whatever) and when he does it doesn't bother me too much since i know the rest of the time he eats veg. i got really lucky. regarding kids, we haven't discussed it at length yet, but i've told him that i'm having a veggie pregnancy and i'm not feeding my kids meat. they can make up their own minds when they get older. i do think they will be exposed to it growing up though, if not through my husband then DEFINITELY through my parents, as meat is the center of their diet (yeah, i'm not really looking forward to those arguments).

i suggest you sit down with your husband and explain to him why you made the choice to be vegetarian, and that you won't be going back to your meat eating ways. maybe if he hears your reasoning, he will be more receptive to your eating habits. regarding his own, would you be able to get it across to him to eat less meat so that he would get healthier? or why he should eat less processed foods? like instead of having 2 BBQ sandwiches, why not just have 1 with a bunch of sides?

Wow. The replies are almost more than what I expected, in both quanitiy and quality. Thanks. With all of the other crap going on in my life now, it's nice to have support and freindship for something. I started the thread, in part because I'm ticked at my husband for other things (I won't go into detail here) and wanted to vent about something.

I think my husband is an ostrich-ized omni. ("ostrich-ized" is my word for one who likes to keep his head in the sand) He's in seminary, future reverend, yet, what he does for the planent is little. Most of the recycling he now does is simply because I "taught" him to do it. Going vegetarian just turned into a natural outlet for my beliefs. After six months, I don't think he still knows what to do with it. This is the first major personality change I've made since we started dating seven years ago. On the one hand he's supportive of it because it's me. On the other hand, well, I think he's adjusting.

Elena:
I'm like you. There isn't much I can't find on regular chain restaurants. I guess I was just ticked that he forgot that I generally don't like his surprises. Blah. Also, for us going to McD's was a treat. A sit down place was a HUGE deal. He was raised, more or less on fast food. I don't know for sure about the rest of them, but his sister was allowed to go go McD's for dinner if her mother (my MIL) was making something she didn't like. I would have had to eat it, whether I liked it or not. A look at their kitchen reveals bags of cookies and chips and other processed stuff. :sick:

I'm not sure about the kids yet. We have other issues, religious-wise that we have to iron out. As far as I'm concerned, though, this is also religious-wise for me.

Bother. The computer lab is going to be closing in less than 10 minutes. I'll come back when I get home if I get on. (I came over here because our printer is broken and I wanted to print some stuff for my class.)

Again, thank you. :vebo:

I think my husband is an ostrich-ized omni. ("ostrich-ized" is my word for one who likes to keep his head in the sand) He's in seminary, future reverend, yet, what he does for the planent is little.

I would say that he's probably in a spot where he can't think on these issues at great length. To be in seminary is to be in school, but it's a difficult school because the politics are so much more intense. how he does here affects, directly, what sorts of jobs he gets, whether or not he'll be a fit for the church(es) that he wants, and so on.

To give an example, my in-law's chuch currently has a new seminarian. their former seminarian was a member of the church before going to seminary, so of course, she would pastor there (and has since been hired as the 'associate pastor'). the new seminarian is a young man from out of state. the church is a *very* local church with most members coming from the immediate neighborhood--about a 5 block radius. So, it's *very* provencial. This new seminarian is a really interesting guy.

We went to dinner at my in laws, where the pastor and the seminarian were invited. They attempt to 'reconvert' us at regular intervals. There's a UCC church literally within walking distance from where we live, but we do not attend for a variety of reasons (noteably, because we're not 'UCC'). This drives his mother nuts--even though she never says so outwardly. So, they came to dinner.

Since i knew we'd be getting the church-tactic throughout dinner, i asked ryan if he would eat vegetarian for me. WHenever we have dinner there, i'm required to bring my own food if i want it to be good, healthy food (instead of green beans and cambells mushroom soup). So, i made my food to take with me (and i always have to make enough for everyone, even though they don't eat it, or if they do they tell me it 'doesn't taste right' becuase it's 'too spicy.') and ryan said that he would eat it. he knew that i'd need mroe support than usual.

interestingly enough, i really liked the seminarian. we had some things in common (moved a lot growing up), and he was very interested in my work and what i do (teach yoga, practice thai yoga massage which is a form of energy work, and i'm currently getting into sound healing/mysticism). he mostly asked a lot of questions about it, why i did it, why i was vegetarian, and so on. It was actually pretty cool.

After that main part of the conversation, he mentioned to the pastor that perhaps they should consider having someone come in to talk about these issues--the health, environmental, social justice, animal welfare, and myriad of other issues that relate to the christian message of peace (since that is basicly how i framed the whole deal anyway). the pastor and my MIL weren't too happy.

So, now the young seminiarian is on the "shiitake" list of a number of 'elders' including my MIL, the pastor, the other associate pastor. He isn't 'long for this world" in regards to that church. they've asked the seminary to find a new placement for him. This doens't look good on his record--so he may be 'hard to place." this may also hurt his job prospects in the future!

Being a seminarian is hard. Getting an MBA and then finding a job on your own involves much less political stuff! So, if he can't address this particular issue right now, i say that's ok and it's ok to give him a little slack! If he has to deal with people like my MIL on a daily basis, i'd cut him a LOT of slack.

Going vegetarian just turned into a natural outlet for my beliefs. After six months, I don't think he still knows what to do with it. This is the first major personality change I've made since we started dating seven years ago. On the one hand he's supportive of it because it's me. On the other hand, well, I think he's adjusting.

i want to point out that this is not a personality change, but an expression or lifestyle change. In councelling, i learned that we ahve a sort of 'core personhood' or 'personality' that basicly stays the same, but that our understanding of that personhood, what it wants and needs, how it wants to live and express itself, changes over time. You haven't changed dramatically at the core, you've simply found new ways to express who you are, new ways to live that are more in allignment with this core self.

it does take people time to adjust. at a certain level, my husband still isn't adjusted. he wants me to be omni every day of the week. he thinks it's the optimal diet, best for my health and he "worries about my health" even though i'm one of the healthiest people he knows (next to himself, of course). he's a whole-foods omnivore--so he's picky about where his meat comes from. he also says that if i don't see a moral/ethical difference between his kind of omni and my kind of veggie, then why not be omni.

The truth is, i don't see a moral difference, but i do see a karmic difference. every day, i make choices. i have to accept the karmic ramifications of those choices. i'm ok with this. There are those choices that are sort of 'neutral' in and of themselves, but still have a ramification. To me, if you choose to eat meat, if you accept those ramifications, then it's ok to eat meat. If you choose not to eat meat, then you are avoiding those ramifications. Is it better to avoid those ramifications? i don't know. I think that for me it is, but it may be 'worth' those ramifications for another. I think that for my husband, it's worth it. For me, it's not worth it. But, in another area, it may be worth it.

if you have fundamental philosophical differences about it, that's ok. recognize that he's likely coming from a different perspective. My husband comes from a perspective of perfectionism (via "ultimate, optimal, healthiest diet") and values that physical health above all else. I come from another perspective (maybe spiritual? philosophical? cosmological?), and that's why we're at a bit of an impasse.

He really wants me to eat meat if/while i'm pregnant. but that's not going to happen. he also wants the kids to eat meat, and we're still discussing that.

I was just ticked that he forgot that I generally don't like his surprises.

i think it may be important for you to mention this. my husband loves shoes (particularly women's shoes) and he loves to buy shoes for me. his tastes are not my tastes. usually, i find about 1/3 of the shoes he likes to be terribly ugly. some of them are more fetishy and i can't really wear them out anywhere. He buys them as 'gifts for me' when they're really gifts for him (he wants to see me in them). I hate wearing ugly shoes, even for him, so i have to remind him to ask me before he buys a pair of shoes for me. he still forgets. he hates to return them. So, i do it.

I'm not sure about the kids yet. We have other issues, religious-wise that we have to iron out. As far as I'm concerned, though, this is also religious-wise for me.

for many people it is. it is definately a spiritual (not so mcuh religious) issue for me. this is why i'm bent on having veg kids until they can understand and accept the karmic ramifications of choosing to eat meat. Not that i think it's 'wrong' per se, but that there are these elements attached to it and you have to accept those as part of the picture if this is what you're going to do. it's like that with everything. but, before they can choose this, i don't think they should be forced to accept those ramifications (as i was/am).

i look forward to seeing you around!

That's how I am. My wife is an omni, but she only eats turkey and chickan and seafood. It's tough because I'm vegan and she's not. I'm trying to compromise because I believe that's a huge part of marriage. But she's a great supporter of me and actually cooks a lot of vegan meals for me. But when she wants to cook something with meat, she has to keep some aside for myself before she throws in the meat. It makes for interesting dinners let me tell you :) But my in-laws are very OK with it, since they go out of their way to not cook meat products when I come over.

Restaurant wise it's a bit difficult since we don't have a lot of vegetarian/vegan ones here. And the few that we do have are usually very pricey and just not worth it. And hey I love to cook at home, but sometimes it's just nice to go out, you know? But luckily my wife likes healthy food for the most part and when I take her out on dates, we can accomadate each other's needs.

Perhaps one day she'll come over to the light side, but till then, we'll make do the best we can. Don't know if that helps, but I find when we go to gatherings where they are going to gril, I just provide my own things to gril or bring my own food. My food usually gets eaten the quikest for some reason ;) Funny how that works.

Thanks!! :bobo:

Seminary is definately a whole other world, even for spouses. It was here where I was fully exposed to vegetarianism. We met one couple who are both vegetarians. I just remember thinking how cool it was that they were. (They're also hippie-ish. I am, too, some, but I consider my look to be somewhat preppy-hippie; i.e., I'll wear the home made tie-dye shirt with a pair of kahaki shorts and my old Chucks; or I'll do the preppie shirt and shorts with the Chucks.) Anyway, they aren't the only people at school who are. There is actually a large enough veg*n population that it has been said, many times, that there should be more of a meatless option for the school lunch service. (Although their salads are pretty yummy.)

I can definately relate to having to bring own food to the in-laws. It used to not bother me, until I started wising up. There can be times when the healthiest thing for dinner at my in-laws is canned veggies. They're okay, but I like the taste of frozen better, despite the fact that they're healthier. (I don't know what the cost difference is between frozen and canned veggies; It's the one price difference I don't care about, although I can usually get a pound of fozen for about a buck.) Although, having gone vegetarian in January, my parent in-laws don't even know, I don't think unless one of my SILs told them. (My husband's older sister thought I was weird when I told her; She also thought it weird that I've never liked potato chips. Although she did think it cool when I told her I quit smoking.) My parents were not health food store shoppers when I was growing up. I was exposed to a good share of processed foods, even the "healthier" ones. However, things like potato chips and cookies were not a regular thing in my house. I can go to my in-laws' and find several bags of cookes and chips and other "stuff". The last time I was there they ordered some pizza. They made sure to get me some mushroom, as that's what I've always requested even when I was a junk food eating omni. (I've just learned this week that mainstream cheese isn't vegetarian. I wonder what they will say when I tell them I don't eat cheese any more. He he.) And now I'm rambling.

Yeah, I think you have a good point about my husband. It just not be his time yet. There may be some truth in the cutesey relationship articles about leading by example with stuff like that. The last one I read like that was for dating couples. I got a good laugh from that.

Re-reading my, "I'm not sure about the kids yet. We have other issues, religious-wise that we have to iron out. As far as I'm concerned, though, this is also religious-wise for me," comment kinda made me cringe. I hate the use of "religious" for the heart-felt practice of beliefs. The wanting to do for God because of what God has done for me type stuff. It seems as though maybe you mis-took the word for that use. Anyway, what I meant was that we have some differences in beliefs that we need to figure out before we have children. We're members of the Evengelical Lutheran Church in America. They practice infant baptism and confirmation in middle school. I was clueless when I was baptized in the first year, probably the first six months of my life. I was just as clueless about confirmation 13 years later. I don't agree with either of those. (Well, there is more I don't agree with any more, but that's a different story.)

At least your husband is a conscious omni. My husband will eat something because it tastes good. I'm even getting pickier about eating out. Last night we went to GameWorks (a huge arcade with restaurant desinged, I'm convinced to suck money from people) for dinner. They have a half-priced drinks and appetizers happy hour. I ordered the nachos without chicken, but with the cheese. I'm trying to cut back on cheese, but it was the only calcium and stuff to touch my body in a couple of days. (I'm poor. I didn't buy milk this week.) When/If I'm working, I'm going to start buying more organic milk and eggs. I felt guilty about eating the cheese, but not enough to not do so. Kinda like the way I did when I first started to become more concious about eating meat. Hence the no cheese on pizza comment earlier. My husband will go to McD's and order to burgers and some fries because that's what he wants. If I'm with him, I'll order the yogurt parfait (the new Fruit 'n Yogurt salad is not worth $4; I only got one because I had a coupon for $1 off the salad with a Dasani water purchase; It made for a decent breakfast) and maybe a side salad if I know I'm not going to be home for awhile. I might steal a few of his fries though, for taste. Anymore, even a small is too much for me.

I got a laugh out of your shoe comment. The last two evenings I went to a couple of Goodwills with my husband (he actually offered to buy me shorts :bobo:). Some of his selctions were, interesting. I tried a couple on though becasuse I was thisclose to being desperate. (I had one pair of kahaki shorts, a kahaki skort, one of those that looks like a skirt in front, shorts in back, they were free and second hand, so they work, and an olive green pair; I wanted a denim pair and/or a white pair, and/or another kahaki pair--something that would be flexible with my shirts.) Last night I did find a pair. for only $1.:bobo: We were also looking at shoes because one of my pairs of Chucks are getting worn through the bottoms. Again, interesting. It's okay though. I have a nice pair of Hanes Her Way canvas that are a size too big, but in almost new shape. (I got them because I needed sneakers and they were on sale for only $3 at Wal-Mart.) If I stiff the toes with either old hose or cotton balls and wear socks (ew) they'll work too.

Sorry for the rambling. Thanks for your support. I do think it's cool that your in-laws invited the pastors over, by the way. I'm a pastor's daughter (my dad is also in the ELCA, when I went to an Assmeblies of God church for awhile, he didn't like it. I left that church because I didn't like the church. The pastor talked about filling the church, of having the "problem" of building a bigger building, yet, I didn't feel included, and he didn't "make rounds" much with parishioners, it seemed. Too bad I wasn't stronger then, I would have talked to him about it. Blah. He was happy though when I found an ELCA church that I liked. I was still living at home, but I didn't like my father's church. They were actually understanding about that at least.) Anyway, as a member of a pastor's family, I know what it feels like to be on the edge of the parishioners. Some people pedestal the pastor. Not good. I remember going to a wedding reception where members were :eek: that my father had a beer. :lol:

Pastors are human too. People would be surprised at the amount of drinking that goes on here. Not college frat level, but it's not uncommon.

Again, I ramble.

Woah. That's really long.

PS: I also liked your karma comments. Karma is something I've heard of, I knew something of, but never really looked into until recently. Although, I'm not sure why. There's defiantely Christian aspects in it, though. (Karma is not mentioned in confimation. Martin Luther, apparently, did not speak of it.:lol:) After all, if my husband wants to eat processed grease and then freak out about gaining weight or other health problems, then say, gee, I guess I should eat better only to eat mor junk, that's his problem. I do what I can, but I'm not his mother. (For that matter, his mother is not his mother in this case. However, his mother doesn't always eat right herself; She's supposedly "boarderline diabetic" but still eats sweets and stuff. Go figure.)

Again, thank you.

That's how I am. My wife is an omni, but she only eats turkey and chickan and seafood. It's tough because I'm vegan and she's not. I'm trying to compromise because I believe that's a huge part of marriage. But she's a great supporter of me and actually cooks a lot of vegan meals for me. But when she wants to cook something with meat, she has to keep some aside for myself before she throws in the meat. It makes for interesting dinners let me tell you :) But my in-laws are very OK with it, since they go out of their way to not cook meat products when I come over.

Restaurant wise it's a bit difficult since we don't have a lot of vegetarian/vegan ones here. And the few that we do have are usually very pricey and just not worth it. And hey I love to cook at home, but sometimes it's just nice to go out, you know? But luckily my wife likes healthy food for the most part and when I take her out on dates, we can accomadate each other's needs.

Perhaps one day she'll come over to the light side, but till then, we'll make do the best we can. Don't know if that helps, but I find when we go to gatherings where they are going to gril, I just provide my own things to gril or bring my own food. My food usually gets eaten the quikest for some reason ;) Funny how that works.

I'm starting to like the challenge of finding food at steak restaurants. My in-laws really like steak restaurants so that's where we go when they come to Columbus. Some are better than others. If we could get them to go go Tumbleweed more, it would be cool. (They have Tex-Mex and I can substitute beans for meat.) Or at the very least more buffets. Blah. As I said to Zoe, I'm going to like seeing their reaction when I start to eat less cheese. Besides, I'm guessing that cheese accounts for a lot of the grease on the pizza. I take paper napkins to degrease it any way. (It's really gross to see what the napkin absorbs and to think that my arteries could have had that.) Some pizza places will substitue another topping for the cheese. (We have a freind who has all but said that cheese is from the devil, but won't elaborate and that's how he orders his pizzas.) Of my in-laws, my younger SIL might be the most apt to change. Even when I was still omni, she would make comments like, "Maybe I should go vegetarian," then eat meat. (She also says comments like, "Im fat," then eat an oversized piece of chocolate pie with whipped topping or some cookies or something else like that.) However, she's more apt to do something because she thinks it cool. In this case, it may be a double-edged sword.

Overall, though, it's not too bad. Many chains are starting to offer veggie burgers, I've learned. TGI Fridays (who has some meatless pastas), Friendly's, Denny's and Ruby Tuesday's and Burger King are the ones I know of. (I've never been to Ruby Tuesday's. Thursday night while polishing up my final paper for a class I took I heard a commercial for them saying that they had 36 types of burgers, or somehinng like that. I thought, "I wonder if any of them are veggie." I went to the site, looked at the menu and found for or five different veggie burgers.)

We're leaving for Lakeside, OH today. (Which is why I should get off my butt and start getting ready.) Lakeside is a small private town on Lake Erie. It's one of those towns that time forgot. Cars are rarely used, people take bikes or walk. Kids, under high school age, can play safely in the street (Those who do drive through expect to see people in the street so they drive carefully.). Kids can go downtown and to the river front park with out adults, or at least with older kids. Once there, though, it's like I forget time and the real world. Which is waht I need after the class I just took. Anyway.... Even in the few restaurants there I can find vegetarian stuff. Last summer, when I just started to eat healthier but would still eat meat (I'd skip the fried beef and go for the grilled chicken), I had a veggie burger at the one sit-down restaurant. I was pleasantly surprised to see it. Yikes. I was going somewhere with this, but my mind wandered.

Okay. Off to continue packing and stuff. Blah. (Although it's hard to feel motivated if my husband is still in bed.)

Seminary is definately a whole other world, even for spouses. It was here where I was fully exposed to vegetarianism. We met one couple who are both vegetarians.

that is cool that you have a lot of vegetarians in your church community. there are many that are very 'anti-veg' and those students who are veg get a lot of crap for it.

I can definately relate to having to bring own food to the in-laws. It used to not bother me, until I started wising up.

how did you wise up? (just confused, curious)

i've found that the best i can do is just bring my own food. my husband is the same way. if we want fresh, organic, whole foods--we bring our own. actually, everywhere we go, we bring our own. My parents are the exception--they'll always keep 'our foods' on hand (frozen veggies, spices, etc). Otherwise, whenever we go anywhere, we always bring our own food. We bring our own food to weddings, to outtings, to friends houses (unless it's a dinner party where a meal is prepared and they're making accomodations), etc. We just alway take food. We may not eat it, but we take it anyway!

I've just learned this week that mainstream cheese isn't vegetarian. I wonder what they will say when I tell them I don't eat cheese any more.

you can still eat cheese, you just have to find the rennet free or the cheeses that use microbial or plant rennet. Trader Joes, if you have such a place near you, has lists of cheeses (brand names that they sell) and what sorts of rennet they have.

THis is why i'm picky with my MIL. i've explained it to her many times, but she still doesn't get it. She thinks i do it because i want things 'fat free.' so, she always says 'but it's fat free' and i have to explain, again, that it's not about fat. it causes some problems.

Yeah, I think you have a good point about my husband. It just not be his time yet. There may be some truth in the cutesey relationship articles about leading by example with stuff like that.

i don't see my behavoirs as 'leading by example' mostly because i've let go of the notion that my SO needs to be vegetarian or has to be vegetarian. He doesn't. he only has to be conscientious. after that, he can eat whatever he wants. i accept and embrace his decision making faculty and thereby his decisions.

I hate the use of "religious" for the heart-felt practice of beliefs. The wanting to do for God because of what God has done for me type stuff. It seems as though maybe you mis-took the word for that use.

i didn't misunderstand, actually, just wanted to differentiate. Religions refer to the spiritual disciplines, cosmologies, cultures and perspectives. Spirituality refers to the practices of these disciplines in light of certain cosmologies and perspectives.

i certainly wasn't judging you for the use of the term; i just assumed it was mis-used, as you, yourself stated in this quote above. I believe you originally meant 'heart felt practice of beliefs' which is more of a spiritual aspect than a religious one (whereas the beliefs themselves may be of a religious sort). that is why i mentioned it before and then addressed that, rather than the religion itself.

Also, i wanted to point out that you may have a differing spiritual take, and yet still participate in the religious aspects of your community. If you have qualms with the religion, then that's something else entirely.

Anyway, what I meant was that we have some differences in beliefs that we need to figure out before we have children. We're members of the Evengelical Lutheran Church in America... (Well, there is more I don't agree with any more, but that's a different story.)

everyone is going to have different spiritual experiences and interpretations. don't expect it to be perfect. we are different spiritually in many ways (and in other ways the same)--and this is a positive thing because we learn from each other.

But, what you're talking about in the quote above is actual, religious differences. If there is something that your church (religion) teaches that you disagree with, then this is something rather serious. If your husband is working to become a minister in this religion, and you disagree with the religion--this may put a HUGE strain on the marriage, let alone any children. It's definately worth looking into *very* deeply to determine what you believe (spirituality, regardless of religion), and then how you want to practice (religion).

At least your husband is a conscious omni.

i'm not fond of the term 'at least' because it seems to place a value judgement on his choices. He's not vegetarian, so he's 'lesser' than we are, but 'at least' thoughtful. Many vegetarians are not thoughtful. Many omnis are not thoughtful. Many veggies are thoughtful; many omnis are too. It is important to recognize that we are equals because we think, not necessarily based on what we do (though there is an element of this too, because what we do demonstrates what we believe).

The Bhagavad Gita, a great eastern text, speaks that it is not action or inaction that makes something right or wrong, but how we approach something that makes it appropriate or inappropriate. We neither get the 'sin' nor the 'reward' of the action, if we are of the right mind and devoted to God (in the text, as depicted by Krishna). Sometimes, action is right; sometimes inaction is right. It's knowing when, why, and how that determines whether or not something is right or wrong.

It is not 'at least your husband is conscious' but rather "because my husband is conscious.' in this way, the action (eating meat) and the inaction (not eating meat) are the same, because it is conscious--in right mind.

My husband will eat something because it tastes good.

this is where the 'problem' lies, actually. it's because he's not thinking. Encourage him to think, without encouraging vegetarianism. He may come to vegetarianism on his own; he may not. But if he's thinking about it, it is the same either way, and definately more liveable for both of you.

I'm even getting pickier about eating out. I ordered the nachos without chicken, but with the cheese. I'm trying to cut back on cheese, but it was the only calcium and stuff to touch my body in a couple of days. (I'm poor. I didn't buy milk this week.) When/If I'm working, I'm going to start buying more organic milk and eggs.

it may be helpful for you, since you're on a limited budget, to do a good deal of research regarding vegetarian nutrition that isn't excessively reliant on eggs and dairy. For me, these are 'add ons' and a little bit goes a long way. YOu can get calcium from a number of vegetable, grain, and bean sources, and it will help you to know what those are. Then, you don't think that you have to have cheese or eggs or milk or whatever to think or feel like you're getting everything that you need. Dairy and eggs are nutritious, when utilized in the appropriate amounts.

when you do work, it sounds like a good idea to buy more organic milk/eggs. I recommend Organic Valley--as they are a good company. I can't 'guarentee' them, but there are many places that dupe customers with terms like 'free range' and the like. So, it's a company that many here have researched and find appropriate. If possible, try to find a local farm through your small, independent HFS, and see if you can get dairy straight from the farm. It may cost far less, and you'll know the living conditions for the animals.

I felt guilty about eating the cheese, but not enough to not do so. Kinda like the way I did when I first started to become more concious about eating meat. Hence the no cheese on pizza comment earlier.

if you were doing what you thought was best and healthiest for you at the time, why would you feel guilty? refer again to the post about action or inaction. If you're thinking rightly, for you at that moment, then it really doesn't matter, does it? And if you know that, in other circumstances, you would have behaved differently, then the context, and therefore 'right action' would be different and you would do differently.

to some, this seems like a process of 'justification.' but for me, it's really about 'realization.'

there is no need to feel guilty. 'Do i fully accept the rewards (nutrition) as well as the 'sin' (animal harming) of doing so? Yes. Am i attached to either one? no. What i am attached to is doing my best to serve my truth--my devotion is to God, and God alone. Because of this, there's no need for guilt. I did my best, and God recognizes this.'

Sorry for the rambling.

i think i'm the unofficial queen of excessively long posts. :)

I do think it's cool that your in-laws invited the pastors over, by the way.

i think it's cool that they're active in their church. I don't think it's cool that they invite him over in order to strive to convince us to attend our local UCC church. He can't answer our questions anyway (or won't, but at this point, i'm assuming can't), and i can run biblical and doctrinal circles around him. I mostly find it annoying. Well, not him, so much as what my in laws are striving to do. It's not enough that we go to a buddhist sitting group, a vedic satsang, and a quaker meeting. No, we should abandon three religious services a week for one empty service that is JV and meaningless to us. sometimes, it gets my goat!

:D

I also liked your karma comments. Karma is something I've heard of, I knew something of, but never really looked into until recently. Although, I'm not sure why.[quote]

most people spend most of their spiritual time, particularly early on, in their own religious context. this is not unusual. it is also a good idea. in doing so, you gain an understanding of the teachings of that religion, and how they fit into a larger, more universal picture. Then, it makes it easier to understand other concepts--such as karma--within their own religious and spiritual contexts because you have a place where you can compare.

[quote]There's defiantely Christian aspects in it, though. (Karma is not mentioned in confimation. Martin Luther, apparently, did not speak of it.:lol:)

Christianity, like all religions, has a universal application at it's most pure form. It is a finger, pointing to the moon. Some people look at the moon--where the finger is pointing--and some people look at the finger (these are people who are religious, but not necessarily spiritual, or have an immature or poisoned spirituality because they put too much emphasis on the religion and not enough on the spirituality).

Because christianity points to something greater than, yet inclusive of, itself, it is not so strange that it holds within it a mirror to the concept of karma. that Luther didn't speak of it is also not strange, as Luther was a man of one religion (and deep personal spirituality) and thereby used the only language of that religion to describe his spiritual landscape. Certainly, he wouldn't have done a comparative study with eastern notions of karma for a number of reasons--but most noteably because that wasn't his interest. He was greatly interested in church (and thereby political and social reform) and the development of the idea of individual conscience--which is a major breakthrough in philosophy of self. Pretty powerful work from a deeply spiritual man. I am impressed by him.

After all, if my husband wants to eat processed grease and then freak out about gaining weight or other health problems, then say, gee, I guess I should eat better only to eat mor junk, that's his problem.

one thing that we have to recognize about a lot of processed food is that it is highly addictive. part of the problem of getting off of junk foods is that it does take time to cleanse the body and it takes a behavoiral process as well (much like AA, for example). So, on the one hand, we want to be angry and frustrated because he just doesn't seem to 'get it' but on the other hand, we have to recognize that it's also addictive and this can be problematic and it may take more than just a change of mind or willpower to move away from these foods.

I do what I can, but I'm not his mother.

he's old enough not to need his mother, though. And, you, of course, are not responsible for his health. THis is where trust and treating him like an equal comes in. It is his body and his choice. YOu also have a choice as to how you react to it, how you participate in it, and so on. Addicts often have co-dependents, so we need to be mindful of that aspect within ourselves as well.

do what you can to work on you, and don't worry about him. encourage him to think, encourage positive choices. strive to not push a particular diet or agenda.

Good luck!

thank you.

you're always welcome. :)

Don't let people use the excuse that you are too thin BECAUSE you're a veggie. I was stick thin my whole life and when I became a vegetarian I gained 5 lbs. It's a lot easier for me to gain weight now, I think cutting out meat helped me get to a more healthy weight.

This is something that really worries me. In the past my boyfriend of 4 years had made comments that its stupid to cut out a whole food group etc.
I've cut out red meat for health reasons and am considering cutting out poultry and fish now as well. I spoke to him about it and he says do whatever you want to do..(like i'm not anyway)..but he's a real meat n potatos guy, as are both our families.
We're looking for a place together and I worry that our diet differences will cause problems. He already keeps offering me steaks n burgers knowing I dont want them. Additionally, he's overweight and unhealthy and I never harp on him to eat better, though I hope some of my eating habits will rub off on him...

I'm not married to an omni yet, but I'm headed down that path, and I'm worried about the differences between us. While my boyfriend and I have core things in common and love each other like crazy, some things are starting to bridge a gap between us; my veg*ism is one of them. He's an omni and a fast food junkie with disdain for trying new things. I try to through in little tidbits of info (last night while he was eating a BK burger, I said "do you know that that burger has meat from about a dozen different spent dairy cows?") but he basically just calls me biased or waves me off. He doesn't want to hear anything about it. That's what's most frustrating to me. It's like he doesn't take what I have to say seriously, and that hurts. He even said, last night: "Think about it this way, there are innocent people dying in Iraq, and you haven't done much to help that." Looking back on it now, that was even more harsh than I thought at the time. I just don't know how different is too different. I also don't know if I'm being too pushy with my beliefs, and should just let him discover things on his own. The thing is, I don't know think he will go and try to find things out on his own, because he simply doesn't want to know. He's a compassionate person, and shows a deep appreciation for animals and nature, but he is extremely set in his ways, and stubborn to boot. I just don't know.

I sort of needed to vent but any advice would be much appreciated!

acadia:

i think that, in a way, you are being too pushy. i think it's ok to share--to a point. once he brushes you off enough, you have to learn to let it go.

today, after 5 years of me being veg, he being omni, the only thing i'll say is this. When we drive past the cows in pasture in our area, he always says "oh, beautiful cow babies!" and i say (chirpy): "you eat them!" So, it's just to make the connection. Everything else, he's on his own.

but, the thing that he (and you) also have to look at is the fact that you havent' been vegetarian for very long. You're still *really* excited about it and *really* interested in having people know what you know and see what you see--and agree with it. We do mellow, even though we're still passionate about people knowing and seeing and agreeing--we find new ways of approaching the topic that may be less touchy. So, i think it's ok to cut yourself (and for him to cut for you) some slack.

also, changes are tough. here ya are, his normal girlfriend, and now you've changed. It's not a big deal really--but he'd have the same problem if you'd both been big movie goers and then you decided that you wanted to take up dance classes. Usually, you go to movies on M, W, and Fri, and here you are, dancing on M and W and fri is the only movie nite. I mean "WTF?" didn't we *always* just go to movies? So, it's not really a 'big deal' it's just a change, and changes take a while to get used to.

landi:

my FIL still offers me meat. I finally realized that it's not to undermind my choices or pester me--it's his way of being generous and sharing. it's somewhat cultural. Perhaps that is the case with yoru BF too.

Thanks for the advice, zoebird. I definitely see what you mean about my changes and how they affect him, too. It's almost a relief to know I'm being too pushy...now I won't feel like I have to say things to him. I think I sort of had it in my head that it was my duty to inform him of these things.

Oh, and he is the exact same way when we pass cows. Any cows, really, but especially the calves. He coos and gets all excited. I really wish he would/could make the connection b/t cow and hamburger, but I spent my whole life driving by those cows and didn't make the connection for a couple decades.

making a joke about it seems to work.

ryan will say "i know i know bad me! bad karma! but i need to eat them!" after i say you eat them! he gets the idea of it all the way. he takes responsibility for it. i think that's appropriate.

you don't really have any duty other than to yourself. :)