The following comment in another thread got me thinking:

I wish i lived in the days where an adventure was still easy to come by. I believe this world is to boring. Thats why i am ditching this 9-5 as soon as i have some money saved up to just go...

Do we do too much waiting and not enough living? It seems like civilized society is structured in a very boring, mundane way - families and friends are seperated for the best part of 5 days a week, real LIFE is relegated to a few short hours in the evenings and weekends, and the occasional bright spot of a 2-week vacation.

Anyone found a way past this? Or is the only solution a complete structural overhaul of civilized society?

Yup. The Pruitan work ethic has destroyed us all.

Anyone found a way past this? Or is the only solution a complete structural overhaul of civilized society?
I've thought about this before too. Yes, we would have to completely overhaul the structure of society. The way our economy is now, we are slaves to our jobs, so we're forced to work our lives away to keep the few really, really rich. I can't see it ever changing though; we (as in humans) are too greedy and in want of "things" to live a more simple life even if it would probably make us happier.

Some people like to be productive, nobody is required to be productive. The conflict occurs where people want to be unproductive but still reap the fruit of the productive people's labor.

The way our economy is now, we are slaves to our jobs, so we're forced to work our lives away to keep the few really, really rich. I can't see it ever changing though; we (as in humans) are too greedy and in want of "things" to live a more simple life even if it would probably make us happier.

I think this is true only because we allow it to be true. The media and everything around us says that we have to have more, be richer, never be satisfied with what we've got. We buy into that myth, which is really just a lie. That doesn't mean that this is how it has to be. The answer to Colorful's question is to make our work as meaningful as possible. Yes, we all have to pay the bills, so we have to do some kind of work, we just need to find a way to make that work meaningful. I'm a potter. I work full time for a large company as a potter. I also spend about 10-15 hours a week in my own studio at home. I realize that my time at my job is "making the rich richer," but hey, they're paying me while I'm setting up my own business. Everyone wins. Someday (ideally in the next couple of years), I'll be out on my own full time. I'll never be rich doing what I do, but that's OK. We've got a nice house in a nice town, my fridge is full of food, we're both healthy, and hey, that's all that really matters!

Some people like to be productive, nobody is required to be productive. The conflict occurs where people want to be unproductive but still reap the fruit of the productive people's labor.

I'm happy living as basically as possible and working as little as possible :cool:

I'm happy living as basically as possible and working as little as possible :cool:

Thats what I am talking about. You realize that you have a choice about how you life your life and you have made it. Some people resent working 40+ hours a week but aren't willing to make sacrifices to get by with less. Other people resent working long and hard for less pay than professionals make but those professionals made a choice to delay income so they could make more later.

We have a lot of choices, but some people just can't accept taking the bad with the good.

i'd have to agree with my old friend remilard on this one. you have all kinds of choices.

in this society, i can pretty much do anything i have a desire to do. my plan is to build a 2500 square foot house for cash and be able to travel, etc. that's a plenty comfortable life to me. you sure can't take it with you. if you let them, your posessions can own you.

conversely, having nothing and living week to week would suck.

Thats what I am talking about. You realize that you have a choice about how you life your life and you have made it. Some people resent working 40+ hours a week but aren't willing to make sacrifices to get by with less. Other people resent working long and hard for less pay than professionals make but those professionals made a choice to delay income so they could make more later.

We have a lot of choices, but some people just can't accept taking the bad with the good.

Yup.

I plan to get full time, so I can save for some things in my life that I really want. I accept that I will need to work more to pay for those things and then be able to reduce my hours again at a later time.

When I was married, I made the mistake of trying to keep up with what people expected of us, material wise. We were not happy, we were always struggling to afford the next thing, I resented working as much as I did, etc. I'm much happier now.

*eta: I don't have a lot of choice in my current position as to how many hours I am assigned (which has been 15-18/wk for the last 4 months). So, I keep my living basic so I don't need to get another job while I wait to get full time there.

I have fallen prey to wanting too much as well. Material objects are such a distraction. When I was in my twenties I lived in a van and traveled the country on Dead tour and I was the happiest camper. Every time I would acquire a new item, I forced myself to discard something. It was a simple life and gave me time to do so many other things.
Then Jerry died. :cry:

My life is a constant wait for something else. Even right now, I'm waiting for something to happen so that I can move on. I'm always waiting. It drives me crazy. It's hard to focus on enjoying the present, for some reason.

Some people like to be productive, nobody is required to be productive. The conflict occurs where people want to be unproductive but still reap the fruit of the productive people's labor.

Ugh. Not again... :no:

Not even gonna go there.

Ugh. Not again... :no:

Not even gonna go there.

Good idea.

Good idea.

Hmm, now you're just asking for it.

Hmm, now you're just asking for it.

I might be asking for it, but you ain't got it.

I don't believe life is any more boring than it ever was. Adventure being easier to come by is an illusion created by historical novels and history books, which only ever relate the interesting things. They don't write entire novels about the average peasant, who was born and died in the same house, after a lifetime of labouring from dusk to dawn on the same strip of land. Adventure is out there if you want it. You just have to go find it. Or create it.

The following comment in another thread got me thinking:



Do we do too much waiting and not enough living? It seems like civilized society is structured in a very boring, mundane way - families and friends are seperated for the best part of 5 days a week, real LIFE is relegated to a few short hours in the evenings and weekends, and the occasional bright spot of a 2-week vacation.

Anyone found a way past this? Or is the only solution a complete structural overhaul of civilized society?

I'd say that's pretty close. But here I am, being a hypocrite, sitting at my computer during the summer when I could be out doing a million things because I'm a student and I'm off for three months.

I think people need to live a bit more. Instead of going to a movie (which can definitely be fun, but all the time?) why not go play in a park, frisbee and stuff, or run around and play tag like we used to? I'd so do it, but I don't think going to a park by myself would be very fun. And no one wants to go with me, because their idea of fun is getting drunk and grinding against boys they don't even know at clubs. woe is me.

Ugh. Not again... :no:

Not even gonna go there.

MP..I understand that this is a sore topic with you, but honestly don't you think that such people exist? There's no one in the world who likes to be on the dole? I can prove that supposition wrong with one phone call. :(

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why not go play in a park, frisbee and stuff, or run around and play tag like we used to?

I used to try to get my ex to play frisbee with me, no dice.

My life is a constant wait for something else. Even right now, I'm waiting for something to happen so that I can move on. I'm always waiting. It drives me crazy. It's hard to focus on enjoying the present, for some reason.

I find that as well. Why is that? I have the fortunate position of staying home with my son, which is the most meaningful job I can imagine right now, but I have to admit that I do my fair share of waiting - waiting for his naptime so that I can finally relax, waiting for Daddy to get home by the end of the day when I'm so frazzled (he is gone for 11 hrs every day including commute & lunch hour). And of course that waiting goes on in a larger scale too - waiting for the weekend, waiting for my next baby to be born, waiting for relatives to come to town to SEE the baby...sheesh

I know that my own attitude and mindset play a big part in this. Perhaps it's an attitude that is fostered in this society though, because it seems to be a pretty prevalent one...

you can always choose to drop out for a while. anyone who works hard and manages their money decently can take quite a bit of time off. if you run out and buy a new car and are stuck making payments.... that was your choice.

there's adventure everywhere. all sorts of stuff to do. how could life possibly be mundane?

>>Do we do too much waiting and not enough living? It seems like civilized society is structured in a very boring, mundane way - families and friends are seperated for the best part of 5 days a week, real LIFE is relegated to a few short hours in the evenings and weekends, and the occasional bright spot of a 2-week vacation. >>

The trick, I think, is to try and find a job that you would do if you weren't being paid for it (or as close to this as possible). If you get into work and think, "Man, they're actually paying me to do this?" you've done something right. If you find yourself living for weekends, something went awry. The problem with the above is that not everyone can afford this luxury, nor could the economy function if everyone did this.

>>Anyone found a way past this? Or is the only solution a complete structural overhaul of civilized society?>>

The latter doesn't sound like a bad idea.

>>Some people like to be productive, nobody is required to be productive. The conflict occurs where people want to be unproductive but still reap the fruit of the productive people's labor.>>

Yes, it is the case that we have to work to live, even if we don't want to. Still, I think it would possible for:
1. The workers to reap the fruits of their labor rather than having it siphoned as profit.
2. The workers to retain autonomy in the process of their labor.
3. Have the ****-jobs shared more equitably rather than relegated to a particular class.

>>I don't believe life is any more boring than it ever was. Adventure being easier to come by is an illusion created by historical novels and history books, which only ever relate the interesting things. >>

Insightful.


>>I used to try to get my ex to play frisbee with me, no dice.>>

I'll play frisbee with you.

ebola

I was just talking about this last night with a close friend who is visiting from 800 miles away. After walking about aimlessly in Syracuse, we just stood about and chatted. In the end, we both agreed there isn't much point to anything all.

Sadly, I brought it up. I immediately thought of being on stage and performing a show, the ephermal mode of modern music, the expanse of new technology instantly creating electronic obsolescence, the destructive nature of our ways. Here I am a musician, who is self-employed, who has all the things I've ever wanted to allow for 'ability'. I must point out that I tout 'ability' as the most important aspect in life.

Ten years ago, I had so little, yet I was much more creative. I began my journey of getting all the things I wanted over time, only to see these things which I spent so much money on become easily replaced by cheap consumer market goods years later. One time I thought the most important thing I could have would be a DAT machine, which is basically a digital tape deck. Well, who needs a $1500 DAT when a few years later CD-R drives cost $30? I don't need it anymore, but I have it in case I need it for something.

Sure somethings I've scraped every cent to get were worth it. The truth is, I have so many things to increase my 'ability' that I don't have any clear path as to what I want to do in a day. I now just am fumbling along with no clear path ahead of me. There is simply not enough time to do it all. It's so overwhelming to have too much ability that I often do nothing!

So what is the point of it all? I don't know, maybe I'll figure it out. Hopefully sooner than later.

MP..I understand that this is a sore topic with you, but honestly don't you think that such people exist? There's no one in the world who likes to be on the dole? I can prove that supposition wrong with one phone call. :(

I think bs blanket statements like the one remilard made are always unacceptable, regardless of whether there are a few people like that.

For every phone call you can make, I can go in to work and show you several women who are working for minimum wage, struggling to support their kids, and are sick of being judged.

Chaos. Chaos is fun. Why else would we simulate it in all our forms of entertainment?