I’m just curious as to what you think of this. I suppose it could never work since kids are allowed to drop out of high school and it might infringe on our rights as adults. Maybe a better question would involve the availability of college/vocational education. I know some people are very successful without formal education but when I think of the growing disparity in the US I worry. So I suppose what I’m really wondering is how can we deal with disparity.

Not everyone is cut out for college, even some really smart people. I think it would frustrate a lot of people and be a monumental waste of resources. I could see having the option of vocational education available, though.

Mandantory education should end at age fourteen, and the legal voting age should be lowered to same. If a "kid" can produce offspring, he should be treated as an adult, not taught that he's inferior. We could learn something from them. Let society,i.e., the government, be responsible for reading and writing; after that, let grownups make their own decisions. You can lower college entry to fourteen, while you're at it.

Not everyone is cut out for college, even some really smart people. I think it would frustrate a lot of people and be a monumental waste of resources. I could see having the option of vocational education available, though.

I agree. Not only is not everyone cut out for college, not everyone can afford it. Grants, loans and scholarships only go so far.

As far as availability goes, I feel for my younger counter parts. I’m an “adult student” and I don’t have to worry about some of the financial issues that a 21 year old has to. Since I’m over 23/25 my financial aid options are better. I forget what the cut off is. Aren’t parents expected to pay a 1/3 or something? What if the kid’s parents are unsupportive and they aren’t getting any parental help. I know some young students who have a very difficult time.

Anyone who doesn't have dependents can go to college, money isn't an issue. Federal financial aid + 15 hour a week job is more than sufficient to pay for a public school undergraduate education.

No we could fully fund the college experience but only allow admissions based on standardized test scores, like some countries do, but that idea would be highly unpopular with most Americans.

Anyone who doesn't have dependents can go to college, money isn't an issue. Federal financial aid + 15 hour a week job is more than sufficient to pay for a public school undergraduate education.

No we could fully fund the college experience but only allow admissions based on standardized test scores, like some countries do, but that idea would be highly unpopular with most Americans.
I don't know if financial aid would be enought to live on even with a p/t job. Plus the first year you get very little money to live on from what i have noticed.
As far as standardized testing goes, again what about disparity.

I don't know if financial aid would be enought to live on even with a p/t job. Plus the first year you get very little money to live on from what i have noticed.
As far as standardized testing goes, again what about disparity.

Cost of attendence at state schools is around 14,000 per annum, first year financial aid, if your parents are so poor that they cannot pay any, is around 9,000. Making 5,000 at a part time job is not hard. I've been there and done that.

There is always community college, if you really think the first two years at a four year school cannot be done.

i don't see how it will work if it's mandatory. you've got to want to do something before you're going to be worth a damn doing it.

there are ample educational opportunities for those who take them.

i don't see how it will work if it's mandatory. you've got to want to do something before you're going to be worth a damn doing it.

there are ample educational opportunities for those who take them.
I understand what you're saying but something still just doesn't sit right with me. I went to a terrible high school in northern new jersey (yuk) and i think there are only two people in my graduating class that went to college. It was never discussed by teachers or "guidence counslers". I just wonder how many people even know that opportunities exist.

Actually.... depending on the location of the college and other factors (whether or not you can live on campus, food and living expenses included in the amount of money for tuition, etc), a min wage job at 20 hours a week isn't really enough to do anything (amounts to about 4732 rounded up to $5K after taxes at $6.50/hr min wage) But if the education doesn't include food or living.... you need more hours to work.

And it is a tad bit hard for some to do well in college just by itself, working a few hours is exhausting to others, but having to work 30+ hours a week including having 15 hours of class time + about another 15 hours for misc stuff like studying... that's basically a 60 hour work week! Even if they could get by with 20 hours a week... that's still a 50 hour work week.

And not everyone can manage that without having their studies being affected.

And not everyone can manage that without having their studies being affected.
absolutely. i know that my academic scholarhips are gpa dependent. and if a person has big dreams for grad school or med school you have to do more than just study.

And it is a tad bit hard for some to do well in college just by itself, working a few hours is exhausting to others, but having to work 30+ hours a week including having 15 hours of class time + about another 15 hours for misc stuff like studying... that's basically a 60 hour work week! Even if they could get by with 20 hours a week... that's still a 50 hour work week.



Most jobs that require a degree have similar burdens so perhaps this provides a beneficial "weeding out" effect.

Most jobs that require a degree have similar burdens so perhaps this provides a beneficial "weeding out" effect.
That doesn’t seem fair to me. I am a very good student but I don’t do well when I have to work 25 hours a week. I’ve had many jobs in the past that required great responsibility and where I had to work 70+ hours a week but it’s not the same as being able to take six classes at a time and acing them which is what I need to do to get my full package. I’ve worked in offices, managed a night club for a few years, owned several small seasonal businesses and frankly being a student is one of the hardest things I’ve ever done though I suppose that can depend on what your major is.

I've yet to have a jobs give me exams every few weeks on subjects completely unrelated to my job, and then base my employment on it though... and that's what happens the first 4 years in college... You're forced to take classes that you hate, just because they're required for the BA/BS (there's between 2-3 years of core classes that colleges have for all programs).

If someone's going for a job, they can, to an extent, choose they're work environment, what they're doing, etc, from the start. It's not like a:
"you're hired for the junior programmer position, but we're putting you in the mail room for 6 months, then the cafeteria for 6 months, then security guard for 6 months, then we'll train you to use the computers for 6 months. Then, you'll get the job we hired you for"

It's a "you're hired for a junior programmer job. You start programming this week"

Actually when I was in college, it was said that:
# of credit hours you have*4=the total time you spend doing college work

actually that doesn't apply to everyone, but does for some, the 3x is closer really from what I saw... if the 4x is accurate for some... that's a 60 hour work week, if 3x, that's a 45 hour work week. Tack on a 20-40 hours for employment work, that's really a 80-100 hour week for some, a 65-85 hour for others....

Actually when I was in college, it was said that:
# of credit hours you have*4=the total time you spend doing college work

actually that doesn't apply to everyone, but does for some, the 3x is closer really from what I saw... if the 4x is accurate for some... that's a 60 hour work week, if 3x, that's a 45 hour work week. Tack on a 20-40 hours for employment work, that's really a 80-100 hour week for some, a 65-85 hour for others....
and then add on how many hours of volunteer work many do plus research hours. crazy

I've yet to have a jobs give me exams every few weeks on subjects completely unrelated to my job, and then base my employment on it though... and that's what happens the first 4 years in college... You're forced to take classes that you hate, just because they're required for the BA/BS (there's between 2-3 years of core classes that colleges have for all programs).


It's called "paying your dues" and nobody has to do it if they don't think it is worth it. I don't see a problem with the college system spitting out the people who were willing to work hardest for the degree.

But that's the thing...

Two people, identical... same knowledge, same intelligence, etc.

One has to work to pay for college, the other doesn't.
One of them has to work a lot harder for the exact same degree, and will be more likely not to do as well on tests as s/he could if not working.


College gives degrees to people who pass all the required classes. They don't say "hey, I know you work 30 hours... so how about 10 extra points on your exams for the hard work" But if someone's program involves a Masters... the grade point average MUST be a certain level (for any program I've seen at least).

But to say that "Most jobs that require a degree have similar burdens so perhaps this provides a beneficial "weeding out" effect." There aren't any jobs that I've heard of that have the same stresses, hours, etc as that of going to college AND working at the same time. All it does is "weed out" the people that don't do well in certain subjects, or just work so much that they can't do a 70-80 work week.

It's called "paying your dues" and nobody has to do it if they don't think it is worth it. I don't see a problem with the college system spitting out the people who were willing to work hardest for the degree.
I think most people can manage to earn a degree. Some people graduate with gpa's of 2.5 lol. The majority of folks I known in my major have a an average gpa 3.2-3.5 which isn't bad but it will bite you in the behind as far as scholarships go. It just seems like the system is kind of a cookie cutter and a bit backwards. The students I know in my major that work less do better then those who have to work 20-25 hours a week. It's not a matter of intellect but one of time. So you can get more $ in scholarships if your gpa is 3.7 but that’s hindered if you have to work and for those who don’t have to work as much don’t get the scholarships because of their parent’s income. I don’t know. I do agree that it puts hair on your chest and having to work extra hard may give you an advantage if you can pull it off.

There aren't any jobs that I've heard of that have the same stresses, hours, etc as that of going to college AND working at the same time.


You must be in a very sheltered field.
And let me tell ya, the "3 hours of work" per credit hour is nonsense. Everyone has the cake classes somewhere that you should be able to ace (if you aren't a mouth breather) without much effort.
I worked my entire way through undergrad and graduate school with a variety of jobs. My experience was that those who were humping multiple jobs tended to do better, as they had more motivation.

Oh... but to make it mandatory... it wouldn't really do too much. Right now you have to have a BA/BS to really get a job that isn't a min-wage thing (and even for some of them!). If it was mandatory, they'd have to make it so that everyone can attend, without having huge loans, or anything that would be hard to pay off with a min wage job.

It'd have the side effect of "McDonalds -- BA in Food Hospitality required", or similar types of things... then... the jobs that now do require a BA/BS, would up their requirements to a Masters. Those requireing a Masters, a Doctorate.. Those a Doctorate, might go to a double-doctorate.

You must be in a very sheltered field.
And let me tell ya, the "3 hours of work" per credit hour is nonsense. Everyone has the cake classes somewhere that you should be able to ace (if you aren't a mouth breather) without much effort.
I worked my entire way through undergrad and graduate school with a variety of jobs. My experience was that those who were humping multiple jobs tended to do better, as they had more motivation.
Do you think majors matter? If you don't mind me asking what was your major? Out of 120 credits my major is 82 of them! I've had one cake class which was sociology and another that i took just out of interest that was pretty easy which was intro astronomy. I loved them both.

You must be in a very sheltered field.
And let me tell ya, the "3 hours of work" per credit hour is nonsense. Everyone has the cake classes somewhere that you should be able to ace (if you aren't a mouth breather) without much effort.
I worked my entire way through undergrad and graduate school with a variety of jobs. My experience was that those who were humping multiple jobs tended to do better, as they had more motivation.

The 3-4 hours per credit hour is what the colleges used, for me personally, I never studied anything (didn't even open most of my books), but got close to perfects on all the tests -- many times I didn't even listen in class. And I was working 50-60 hours a week at an actual job.

You might have a few cake classes... but a cake class for one, isn't for another. Out of all the college hours I have (I think about 200, only 30 were non-major related).
The easy classes (for most/all people):
Orientation
Art History (compared to the Film History class)
Typing
Psych 1
Speech
Intro to ______ (many intro classes didn't require anything other than physical presence, but not all)

Education should be always free but never mandatory...but I got a lotta other ideas.