Hey everyone, I haven't had meat for a week now, <mommyof1 pats herself on back> but I'm feeling really icky. I'm lightheaded, tired, I can't focus on anything, and I feel like my body is dragging. My chest hurts, and I'm short of breath, but I think that's bc I'm sick... I have a headache, but I think that's from quitting caffine (might as well do it all at once....) My left kidney hurts... never had kidney stones, but I can imagine this is what it feels like...and, yes, I've been drinking at least 1/2 gal of water a day. Anyway, I feel kinda drunk... (no, I'm not!) I think I've been getting enough food... been drinking a lot of soymilk, eating nuts, fruits, veggies, all the good stuff. And I'm beyond irritable. I do have blood sugar problems, not diabetes, but I have hypoglycemic episodes... Can you have meat withdrawls??? Eeew, that sounds so gross. On the flipside, I haven't been having any bad cravings, except for chocolate (a luna bar fixed that) and cheese... And, I went to the store last night to grab some stuff, and in trying to find the 'Gimme Lean' I walked by all the packaged meat, and started to feel sick. Then, I got really depresses as I imagined all the animals standing in the refrigerators looking at me... (I'm a very visual person.) All the videos from the PETA website haunt me... And I'm disgusted that I ever ate meat. So that's good, right? Can you help me out with the other stuff?? Thanks.

Good for you for trying! I can't really offer any nutritional advice, but I know caffeine withdrawal can leave you with bad headaches, and I also wonder if you should be eating more carbs. Sounds like you're hungry
.

if you have the blood sugar problem, you need to behave as if you have diabetes when it comes to managing diabetes with diet (i'm in a similar situation, btw). There are diabetics who are vegetarian, so never fear.

now, those diabetics who are vegetarian are often lacto-ovo vegetarians because of the protien/carbohydrate balance. so, that's something to consider or look into.

do eat throughout the day and make sure that what you eat is balanced (protien, fats, and carbs). try 5 or 6 small meals at regular intervals rather than 2 or 3 large meals and snacks.

also, food diary often helps. consider starting one to see how you feel and what's going on. ok?

if you have the blood sugar problem, you need to behave as if you have diabetes when it comes to managing diabetes with diet (i'm in a similar situation, btw). There are diabetics who are vegetarian, so never fear.

now, those diabetics who are vegetarian are often lacto-ovo vegetarians because of the protien/carbohydrate balance. so, that's something to consider or look into.

do eat throughout the day and make sure that what you eat is balanced (protien, fats, and carbs). try 5 or 6 small meals at regular intervals rather than 2 or 3 large meals and snacks.

also, food diary often helps. consider starting one to see how you feel and what's going on. ok?

Thanks for the suggestions... I kinda knew I shouldn't cut out dairy for my health, but I did anyway... I guess I'm an 'extremeist' -- all or nothing. I feel rotten about having dairy... Maybe I'll have to go buy a few cows....

Please post exactly what you ate yesterday, with portion sizes. I don't think you are eating enough or as often as you should be from the sounds of it.

here's the thing. before you cut something out, you need to have a handle on what you need to do.

i understand the all or nothing mentality. i do it too. but, i've also learned the wisdom of tempering that. you may, eventually, be able to go dairy free. you may not be able to. it all depends upon you, your needs, and what you know and what your options are. in the mean time, try to get raw, organic milk products if possible. these farms are very different from modern commericial 'factory farms' as is biodynamic agriculture. it's worth looking into.

Good luck!

Okay, here it is- I apologize if I screwed up eating any of these things- as you know, I'm still learning...

breakfast- (I've never been one to eat breakfast- I had a hard time choking this down...)

oatmeal
apple w/organic P.B
soymilk

Snack-

Homemade juice from- carrots, apples, celery, tomatoes
BBQ flavor 'soy crisps'

Lunch-

Lentil soup,
'veggie crackers'

Snack-

Small bag of nuts
Carrots
Soymilk

Dinner-

whole wheat pasta w/ tomato sauce, onions, garlic + spices
Carrots
Broccoli
1 glass of wine
Whole fruit popcicle

If I made any mistakes by ingesting any animal product, please tell me... and I apologize. :-/

ok, first of all. . .whta are you talking about? how do you 'screw up eating?' who are you apologizing to? and why?

recognize that this is a process. first, it's a process of deciding to do it. then, it's a process of learning how to do it. and then it's a process of refining to fit your particular needs.

You don't have to apologize for anything. You don't have to justify anything to us (i guess, unless you want to). You don't have to ask for permission or absolution. Just be yourself, do whta you need to do. :)

off the top of my head, here's the thing that i see: you need more green vegetables. actually, more vegetables in general. you need to reduce your glycemic index thing a bit by moving away from carrots. they're very 'sugary' (or they have a high glycemic index). treat carrots as treats, similar to candy. go for various other kinds of greens which are rich in nutrients--salads, broccoli, cauliflower, zucchini, etc. Expand into sprouts like bean and seed sprouts (sunflower seed sprouts, for instance).

you also eat a lot of processed foods here--soy crisps, veggie crackers (huh--made from vegetables or made from grains?), even pasta (whole wheat is better than white--so good there). the first two contain refined carbs and the soy crisps likely contain soy protien tht is so processed yoru body can't absorb it. other than 'traditional' soy (miso, tofu, tempeh, and perhaps soy milk, though that's not traditional), most soy is inabsorbable. Refined carbs shoot up the blood sugar issues.

carbs are an important factor for people with blood sugar issues to consider. we have to watch our simple carbs--too many and we get a head ache, we get the shakes, we get to feeling like we can't get warm (feel cold all the time), etc. You have to balance it with your protiens and fats. Other than the fat in the nuts which you ate only twice according to that diary (and how much is a 'small bag' as far as a serving goes?), you don't have enough fat in your diet (unless you added olive oil or some other oil to the soup and the sauce). similarly, your protien needs are lacking.

ok, so, here's todays' meal plan, which only has two meals left:

breakfast (also difficult for me, so i eat 1 hour after waking): smoothie that contained frozen tropical fruits (mango, papaya, pineapple, passion fruit), kefir (home made yogurt-like beverage made from raw, whole milk--2 servings), coconut oil (1 tbsp)

snack: apple, walnuts, hard boiled egg

Lunch: large salad with mixed baby greens, tomatoes, cucumbers, celery, white onion, carrots (three baby carrots cut into thin strips), sprouted beans (adzuki, chickpeas, and mixed lentils), broccoli and cauliflower with home made dressing (olive oil, whole mustard, lime juice, white balsalmic vinegar, sea salt and pepper)

snack: cut veggies with home made bleu cheese dressing (ok, this one gets complex. I started by making my own home made mayo with one whole raw egg, vinegar, salt, white pepper, mustard, and olive oil. Then, i pureed/mixed this with about 1/2 of a serving of raw (unpasturized) bleu cheese crumbles. Then, i stirred in the rest of the bleu cheese crumbles). The cut veggies were red and green peppers, carrots, celery, broccoli, cauliflower, lightly steamed asparagus, and i also had a few strawberries.

dinner: tonite is our chili nite so it's black bean chili with jalapeno corn bread and roasted veggies (onions, peppers, zuccini and yellow squash as well as 'mexican' spices). the whole dinner takes 20 minutes to cook once the prep is done (chopping vegetables).

snack: mixed summer berries in whole cream or we'll make it into ice cream with whole, raw milk, whole raw cream, agave nectar or white grape juice, vanilla extract, and then the berries. If i don't feel like having this, then i'll likely have my favorite 'second meal' broccoli with garlic. I simply sautee broccoli in a bit of vegetable broth with some garlic. i think broccoli is one of my favorite vegetables.

it's likely that i'll have ice cream because looking at my intake right now, i only have two eggs down and three servings of dairy in. I'll either need to add eggs to something (two more) or add another serving of dairy to get my cholesterol needs. but, i really just want more broccoli.

trust me, it's no fun going back to dairy and eggs once you're comfortable being vegan! LOL it's hard to go, ok, did i eat all of my eggs today? did i eat all of the dairy that i needed to eat? of course, i could butter my corn bread and that would give me another serving of dairy-fat, which would probably solve my problem. Ok, so there it is. butter on my corn bread and then i can have my favorite garlic broccoli for late snack.

here's my broccoli and garlic:

broccoli, garlic, veggie broth, olive oil, sea salt, pepper, and raw cashews. sautee first three, toss with last three. eat. :)

Thank you for that! I will try your broccoli, as I too consider that one of my favorie vegetables. I'll try you're suggesions, but is there sonething I could swap the eggs for? I'll eat them if I have too, although I've never really liked them. :)

Oh, and where in the world do you get raw milk? Where do you live? I live out here in California. I thought raw milk was a myth... J/k :p

Organic Valley has a line of raw milk products...

raw milk is legal in california. here's a list of resources in california:

Lindsay: Three Sisters Farmstead Cheese, 24163 Road 188, Lindsay, CA 93247;
(559)562-2132, fax (559)562-0911, serenacheese@hotmail.com, http://www.threesisterscheese.com. An American original Italian-style cheese made from a family herd of Jersey cows. It’s neither sharp nor salty with a slight bite that Parmesan imparts and the sweetness and nuttiness typical of gruyere.

Point Reyes, Giacomini Family's Farmstead Cheese - Original Blue raw milk cheese from Grade A raw homogenized milk from a closed herd of Holstein cows that graze on the green pastured hills overlooking Tomales Bay. Contact www.pointreyescheese.com. Available at many stores across the country--see website for retailer listing. Also available for order online.

Watsonville: Claravale Dairy (831)789-9525 sells raw milk from Jersey cows in many stores throughout California.

Winchester: Winchester Cheese Company, 32605 Holland Road, Winchester, California 92596, Phone: (909) 926-4239, Fax: (909) 926-3349, Email: sales@winchestercheese.com , http://www.winchestercheese.com. Made from raw milk, Winchester Sharp Gouda is aged over six months. It has a distinct sharp taste and nutty, butterscotch-like flavor.

Yerba Santa Goat Dairy raw cheese from grass-fed goats (707) 263-8131.
Organic Pastures, www.organicpastures.com. Raw milk from pasture-fed cows is now available in health food stores throughout California. (559) 846-9732. .

as for swapping for eggs--you don't have to eat eggs, it ws just an idea as to what i eat in a given day. you can use tofu (tofu scramble is good) or tempeh or you could use beans of various sorts and in various ways (soups, dips, spreads, sprouted, cooked and chilled, etc). nuts are great too, and you can puree them into butters, eat them raw and whole, roast them with seasoning (i'm enjoying tamari almonds right now, in general), or make them into milks and creams (soak in water overnite, then puree with water in the morning--coconut water is a good option too for the pureeing). So, you have options.

organic valley is an co op of organic farms across the US. their raw dairy line is restricted to raw cheese (at least in this area). They are good raw cheeses, though.

if you want raw milk, cream, buttermilk, and butter you'll either have to go to the farm or to a farm's seller (such as a health food store that carries their products). here, we're able to get raw cheese and raw milk at the store, but we have to get raw butter, raw cream, raw yogurt and raw buttermilk from the farm. My raw yogurt that i got is lasting me too. I took a tablespoon of it and put it in my raw milk (part of it separated out for my own use) to make kefir (which is a yogurt drink, but not as thick as regular yogurt)--and i'm still using that family of enzymes, as i withhold some of my kefir from each batch to make the next batch. generally, i make kefir twice a week.

admittedly, it's nice living in pennsylvania where i'm within 20 minutes to 1.5 hours to some of the best farms for raw dairy around!

Well, you *can* do a blood-sugar friendly diet without using dairy. :) I'm not preaching that it's what you should do personally, but don't see it as a choice between your health and eating dairy.

A couple of things that stand out:
* a heavy glycemic load at dinner. Pasta, tomato sauce, carrots, wine, popsicle. This could easily give you that "sugar coma" (when the sugar spike wears off) feeling.

*I'm not sure how much soy you're consuming as quantities aren't listed, but you might want to watch how much you take in. Granted, the jury's still out on soy's effect on thyroid, but there's at least some strong anecdotal evidence that large amounts of processed soy can cause some problems (tiredness, fatigue, etc.)

*your morning snack of juice might be better served with a meal, to help balance out the sugarload of the apples/carrots/tomatoes

*you may consider adding some healthy fats..I see only the PB and the nuts as sources of fat in the sample menu.

*double check your iron intake. It's hard to tell from the menu, as I don't know how large a portion of nuts you're eating, what kind of lentil soup it is, if your pasta's fortified, etc. The symptoms you're describing (although unlikely to appear after just a week) can be caused by iron deficiency/anemia.

:up: to you for taking the time to work this through...I'm sure things will balance out soon and you'll get to feeling better. :)

Well, you *can* do a blood-sugar friendly diet without using dairy. :) I'm not preaching that it's what you should do personally, but don't see it as a choice between your health and eating dairy.

A couple of things that stand out:
* a heavy glycemic load at dinner. Pasta, tomato sauce, carrots, wine, popsicle. This could easily give you that "sugar coma" (when the sugar spike wears off) feeling.

*I'm not sure how much soy you're consuming as quantities aren't listed, but you might want to watch how much you take in. Granted, the jury's still out on soy's effect on thyroid, but there's at least some strong anecdotal evidence that large amounts of processed soy can cause some problems (tiredness, fatigue, etc.)

*your morning snack of juice might be better served with a meal, to help balance out the sugarload of the apples/carrots/tomatoes

*you may consider adding some healthy fats..I see only the PB and the nuts as sources of fat in the sample menu.

*double check your iron intake. It's hard to tell from the menu, as I don't know how large a portion of nuts you're eating, what kind of lentil soup it is, if your pasta's fortified, etc. The symptoms you're describing (although unlikely to appear after just a week) can be caused by iron deficiency/anemia.

:up: to you for taking the time to work this through...I'm sure things will balance out soon and you'll get to feeling better. :)


Thanks. :) You're probably right about the sugar at night. That's probably why I wake up feeling so crappy. I'm going to add avacados to my diet for the fat. (I'm going to try to stay away from dairy as much as possible...) And also, good call on the anemia thing. I have been diagnosed with iron-deficiency anemia. I've been on iron supplements, and do notice a change in how I feel if I forget to take them. (are they okay for vegetarians??) And I haven't taken them for a few days. Thanks. I'll put them out so I remember. As far as the nuts, I'll eat a portion sized bag- 1.5 oz. It has peanuts, walnuts, almonds, hazelnuts and pistashios. It's 220 calories. Do you think I need more? I also got some spinach for salads which will help the iron. Thanks for the help guys!!! I'll let you know how I'm feeling tomorrow. :hi:

I also got some spinach for salads which will help the iron.

Just an fyi. While spinach does contain iron, very little of it is absorbed by the body because of it's oxalic acid content. So you're better off choosing alternate iron sources. (i.e kale, blackstrap molasses, beans, some nuts/seeds)

Just an fyi. While spinach does contain iron, very little of it is absorbed by the body because of it's oxalic acid content. So you're better off choosing alternate iron sources. (i.e kale, blackstrap molasses, beans, some nuts/seeds)


true story, but since iron is a mineral you can just cook the hell out of the spinach to kill the oxalic acid, you'll also end up being able to absorb more of spinach's calcium that way too!

another little blurb, for all you peanut butter eaters... we all know it's not healthy, so sometime try mixing equal portions of blackstrap molasses and tahini... you get all the iron and a good portion of the calcium you need in the day and nowhere near the sat. fat's of PB... it also kind of tastes like nutella... but it 's an aquired taste, so try it before you go mixing them together and hating and then blaming me ;)

Peanut butter is unhealthy? Do you mean the hydrogenated fat versions, or peanut butter in general?

Just curious, because I've never heard such a thing. :)

Natural peanut butter isn't any less healthy than tahini ;-)

Peanut Butter is fine.... only thing I can possibly think is wrong is that it is all Omega-6's and absolutely no omega-3's. :shrug:

That's what I've always believed. Peanuts in their natural state provide "healthy fats". It's only when they are heavily processed that they become a health hazard.

Natural peanut butter has slightly more fat than tahini (8 grams vs 7 grams per TB), and slightly more saturated fat (1.5 g vs 1 g per TB), but I don't see 1 gram of fat, or 1/2 gram of saturated fat making much of a difference.

*Note: calories & fat may vary between brands!