Ok, given some interest in inter-faith dialog, what are the creation stories that are important to you?

Note that this topic is for sharing, not for debate. If you want to debate, start up a new topic in the Heap. If you feel that someone is trying to kick off a debate, ignore them.

Ohh, hungry so I'm really going to be brief:

A long time ago, an old star died. It's death was catastrophic, the gravity pulling it in stronger than the fusion fires that supported its bulk. The core of the star compressed to form a substance more dense than lead, and harder than diamond. On this anvil of pure neutron were forged the elements of our existence, iron, copper, carbon, titanium, and they were flung out over the galaxy. Until another star formed, and another solar system created from this stardust.

All right: in for a penny, in for a pound: if I'm going to be a flake I might as well go all the way.

As a musician I really enjoy Tolkien's creation story in the Silmarillion. It describes Melkor, the Lucifer-figure, striving for independence and notoriety and creating more and more outlandish themes in the overall music...but his colleagues and assorted demigods keep bringing it all together ["Take it to the bridge!"], and of course the music becomes richer and richer as a result. Apparently it is out of this process that the world is born.

Instrumentation and lyrics, if any, are not mentioned.

Big Momma Makes the World (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0763611328/ref=pd_sim_b_4/103-2916336-5531014?%5Fencoding=UTF8&v=glance), by Phyllis Root. I love this book.

I just posted this elsewhere, and as it's a creation story (well, a nutshell of the Gnostic interpretation of the OT creation story) here it is again!


Yeah, it really does. *Basically* and according to what I have read about Gnosticism, the OT god is the "demiurge" - a powerful and self-concious diety that found itself amidst chaos produced by the shattering of the True God. True God "somehow" (the same somehow, interestingly, that caused Jiva to shatter and is found at the beginning of Genesis, according to Gnosticism at least) shattered into concentric waves that can, for all intents and purposes, be considered "worlds" - the farther out the worlds go, the less "heavenly" they are.

The demiurge finds itself amidst the chaos with the power give order to the chaos. However, what the demiurge cannot create of its own volition is life, so it charges its lifeless creations with the breathe of (True) God - this is the Neshaman - Hebrew for Breath of God - found in Genesis. This is the breath of the True God, though. This introduces problems.

The life that Demiurge creates is more Neshaman than Demiurge, and as such the will of Neshaman is pulled towards True God as the waves of the world collect back into one. This is not the will of Demiurge, of course, who as a concious being wishes its will be be the will if its creations. Because by its nature as the energy and ground and basis of the existence of each world, the True God cannot participate in any of the worlds, but sends special beings - sparks to do its bidding. It is only through making the beings of each world come to know (ere go gain "gnosis" - knowledge) that the God of the OT is NOT True God that True God can call its Neshaman back to its source.

So there is the inversion - the OT God is not EVIL per se, but clearly antagonistic to (although, if I recall, not aware of) True God's will. Who are the sparks True God sends to the world? Moses and Jesus, obviously. As far as I know, it is widely believed that Muhammed or at least Gabriel is a spark, and many Gnostics believe that even Buddha and the Bab and other leaders are sparks, although there are degrees of "sparkiness" if you will.

Most interestingly to me is the first spark, the serpent. Genesis 3.1 (Oxford Annotated Study):
Quote:
But the serpent said to the woman, "You will not die; for God knows that when you eat of it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil".

And then, of course, they ate it and BOOM! Out of the garden you go.

I'm sorry for the lecture - I just really like the Gnostic stuff and I should really learn more - it's so cool!

Cool thread.

I don't believe that the universe was created as the things in it were created. I suspect that the universe came into being when consciousness recognized itself. That is, it needed some means of expression in order to be fulfilled, and for that, it needed something OUTSIDE itself, hence, matter. In that way, awareness and matter came into existence together, one the interpreter, and the other the interpreted, but ultimately, one in the same.

There is a theory in physics called the Holographic Universe model which was dreamed up by David Bohm, a protege of Einstein and a pioneering physicist in his own right. According to his model, the universe is actually a complex web of wave forms, constantly interfering with one another. How our brains interpret those forms gives shape to the material universe. Given the effects that observers have on quantum experiments, and the wave/particle duality of matter, this theory makes alot of sense. It also explains things like reincarnation, psychokinesis, ghosts, and other paranormal phenomena for which there is a great deal of anecdotal evidence, but little laboratory verification.

His theory spells out the relationship between consciousness and matter in a compelling way. The idea I described above is my interpretation of it, as I understand it so far (more books are on order :D ).

We create reality in the same way that we create our dreams, we just create it from material that doesn't originate in our heads.

:nigel:

The Rev

Great thread. And great subject!
My bookshelf holds various versions of the 'Creation' story collected over the years, mostly in the form of multi-cultural and folk tales made into picture story books for children... I love the similarities and differences interwoven throughout the stories...

My favorites would be: "How We Came to the Fifth World ~ Cómo vinimos al quinto mundo" an ancient Mexican Creation tale, And "Coyote and the Third World ~ A Navajo Creation Story".

1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.

2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.

3 And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.

4 And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness.

5 And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day.

6 And God said, Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters.

7 And God made the firmament, and divided the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament: and it was so.

8 And God called the firmament Heaven. And the evening and the morning were the second day.

9 And God said, Let the waters under the heaven be gathered together unto one place, and let the dry land appear: and it was so.

10 And God called the dry land Earth; and the gathering together of the waters called he Seas: and God saw that it was good.

11 And God said, Let the earth bring forth grass, the herb yielding seed, and the fruit tree yielding fruit after his kind, whose seed is in itself, upon the earth: and it was so.

12 And the earth brought forth grass, and herb yielding seed after his kind, and the tree yielding fruit, whose seed was in itself, after his kind: and God saw that it was good.

13 And the evening and the morning were the third day.

14 And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years:

15 And let them be for lights in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth: and it was so.

16 And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: he made the stars also.

17 And God set them in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth,

18 And to rule over the day and over the night, and to divide the light from the darkness: and God saw that it was good.

19 And the evening and the morning were the fourth day.

20 And God said, Let the waters bring forth abundantly the moving creature that hath life, and fowl that may fly above the earth in the open firmament of heaven.

21 And God created great whales, and every living creature that moveth, which the waters brought forth abundantly, after their kind, and every winged fowl after his kind: and God saw that it was good.

22 And God blessed them, saying, Be fruitful, and multiply, and fill the waters in the seas, and let fowl multiply in the earth.

23 And the evening and the morning were the fifth day.

24 And God said, Let the earth bring forth the living creature after his kind, cattle, and creeping thing, and beast of the earth after his kind: and it was so.

25 And God made the beast of the earth after his kind, and cattle after their kind, and every thing that creepeth upon the earth after his kind: and God saw that it was good.

26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.

27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.

28 And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth.

29 And God said, Behold, I have given you every herb bearing seed, which is upon the face of all the earth, and every tree, in the which is the fruit of a tree yielding seed; to you it shall be for meat.

30 And to every beast of the earth, and to every fowl of the air, and to every thing that creepeth upon the earth, wherein there is life, I have given every green herb for meat: and it was so.

31 And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day.
:)

Vggiegirl: Love it. The best version of all in my opinion!!

For all the folk-tales, stories and legends of Creation that I collect, the Biblical account will always be my "original"...

You forgot the seventh day of the Creation week.... "...the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them. 2 And on the seventh day God finished his work which he had done, and rested from all his work 3 So God blessed the seventh day and hallowed it,

You gotta love the idea that a God powerful enough to create an entire Universe actually 'rested" - He took a break, took the a day, set it aside, and just sat back and enjoyed what He had created. I think He probably looked around at the animals playing, the birds, the trees, the sunset - all of it - and said "Wow - awesome!!" That's the coolest part of the story for me....

You gotta love the idea that a God powerful enough to create an entire Universe actually 'rested" - He took a break, took the a day, set it aside, and just sat back and enjoyed what He had created. I think He probably looked around at the animals playing, the birds, the trees, the sunset - all of it - and said "Wow - awesome!!" That's the coolest part of the story for me....

I wonder if he's disappointed now
:sick:

from judeo-christian roots: i prefer the second creation story in genesis to the first. In it, male and female were made at the same time, and made first, then the rest of the earth and stuff made for them.

i like a lot of different creation stories--hindu/vedic, various aboriginal, and so on. i read too much probably. :)

I wonder if he's disappointed now
:sick:

Vggiegirl, for what it's worth, I don't think so. :hi: It's not like h/He had it all set up like a Lego Medieval Castle and then somebody came and stomped on it. I think it was meant to be a process, and a process it most certainly is.

hehe someone emailed this to me today:

Where did pets come from?
A newly discovered chapter in the Book of Genesis has provided the answer
to "Where do pets come from?"

Adam and Eve said, "Lord, when we were in the garden, you walked with us
every day. Now we do not see you any more. We are lonesome here, and it is
difficult for us to remember how much you love us."

And God said, I will create a companion for you that will be with you and
who will be a reflection of my love for you, so that you will love me even
when you cannot see me. Regardless of how selfish or childish or unlovable
you may be, this new companion will accept you as you are and will love
you as I do, in spite of yourselves."

And God created a new animal to be a companion for Adam and Eve.

And it was a good animal.

And God was pleased.

And the new animal was pleased to be with Adam and Eve and he wagged his
tail.

And Adam said, "Lord, I have already named all the animals in the Kingdom
and I cannot think of a name for this new animal."

And God said, " I have created this new animal to be a reflection of my
love for you, his name will be a reflection of my own name, and you will
call him DOG."

And Dog lived with Adam and Eve and was a companion to them and loved
them.

And they were comforted.

And God was pleased.

And Dog was content and wagged his tail.

After a while, it came to pass that an angel came to the Lord and said,
"Lord, Adam and Eve have become filled with pride. They strut and preen
like peacocks and they believe they are worthy of adoration. Dog has
indeed taught them that they are loved, but perhaps too well."

And God said, I will create for them a companion who will be with them and
who will see them as they are. The companion will remind them of their
limitations, so they will know that they are not always worthy of
adoration."

And God created CAT to be a companion to Adam and Eve.

And Cat would not obey them.

And when Adam and Eve gazed into Cat's eyes,
they were reminded that they were not the supreme beings.

And Adam and Eve learned humility.

And they were greatly improved.

And God was pleased.

And Dog was happy.

And Cat didn't give a s*** one way or the other.



:

Oh oh oh! This is fascinating stuff. I remember continually returning to a library reference book called "Creation Myths". The downside was that I had to read it at my school's library; I couldn't check it out because it was reference.

So many different kinds of stories to explain our existence... Most of the accounts in that book involved God or other deities creating the Earth, though sometimes by accident. Obviously we have the creation ex nihilo (out of nothing) myth, but I was intrigued to read about cultures whose myths said the world came from a divine sneeze, a divine BM, or incest among the gods. I felt disturbed to note how often creation was seen as a violent act. I'm not accustomed to thinking about life origens as inherently violent, but that could just be me.