I'm feeling conflicted and looking for some advice/opinions.
It's long been my feeling that individuals who are in an abusive relationship should get out. Break up, divorce, just get out. End of story.

Background: I grew up in a household where my mother was emotionally abused by her first husband (my father) and then physically abused by her second husband. After several years, the abuse stopped; there was no counseling, now finding of religion, no legal action, it just stopped and my mom tells me that she'll leave him if he ever hurt her again. She's still married to her second husband and, while not overwhelmingly happy with their relationship, intends to stick with him. I'll never forgive him for all the hurt he caused my mom and I (plus he's a cattle rancher which has never endeared him to my heart).

The situation: My best friend from college has told me that her husband threw her into a wall and threatened to kill her. He's since apologized and they're now going to marriage counseling. He has an explosive temper she didn't know about before the marriage and continues to yell at her and the babies (ages 4 months and 16 months). She wants to wait it out a few months and see if he can change.

The dilemma: I want to tell her to leave him because he hurt her but I also want be supportive of her efforts to save her marriage because he is at least *trying* Although the abuse is so far an isolate incident, I fear for her and the children.

The question: Does anyone know of angry, abusive people who shaped up their act (like my step-father eventually did)? Should I be supportive or urge her get out now?

Well my dad had a pretty explosive temper when I was very young. He would hit us and I remember a couple times he slammed us into walls, but I don't think anything that would constitute abuse. And he screamed and yelled a lot at my brothers and me. But he never yelled at or hit my mom to my knowledge. Now he is a lot more mellow. Like I can tell when he gets exasperated with something and he generally gets pretty snarky and sarcastic, but he doesn't really yell anymore and it's been a really long time since he's hit anyone. I was scared of him for sure, but no one in my family ever was scared that we would be severely hurt or anything.

I don't really know about this situation though. He threatened to kill her? That's a really not good sign. And verbal abuse can quickly escalate to violence in the heat of the moment. Maybe they should separate until he has made more progress with controlling his anger. They could separate without getting a divorce. For both her sake and for the safety of the children.

I think it's a shame that anybody should ever have to be in that situation.

No matter what you tell her to do, she's ultimately going to do what she wants...whether you agree with it or not. However, I would definitely point out that she needs to think about her children and make sure that they're safe.

I really hope that things work out for your friend. It's hard to see people you love being hurt.

When I was about 12 years old, I spent the night at my mother's friend's house. Her husband was going to be home really late, because he was going out drinking with a friend. When he arrived home, he came in and accused his wife of having an affair with the friend he had been out drinking with. Evidently, after he had a few drinks, he got into a fight with the friend and took a cab home. He took his wife to the bedroom, and sat on her chest and began bending each of her toes back and breaking them until she would admit they had an affair. All of us kids ended up sleeping in one room with the door locked and a few of us had baseball bats. We could hear him screaming at her all night long, and hear her crying and screaming back.

When I was a little older, I found out this wasn't the first time this kind of thing had happened. He had beaten her before when he had come home drunk, and beat the younger kids around also. He was a drill sarge in the army, and the army kept promising my mother's friend that they would get her husband help. They told her he was in anger management and they would get him help when it came to his drinking problem.

The Army didn't help out much, and the couple ended up seperating. About two years ago, they ended up getting back together. My mother's friend claims that he has changed, but I don't really see it. He still drinks a lot, but she is gone more because of the war, so she isn't around for him to beat on. He is also busy because of the war, so he might just not have the time or energy to beat her or get as drunk as he used to.

I don't really think people can completely change though. You don't beat someone and treat them like garbage for years, then just wake up one day and stop. It just doesn't happen. If there are small children involved, she should do what is best for them and seperate with their father until his anger problem is taken care of.

One thing I would recommend is getting your friend hooked up with the nearest domestic violence agency in your town. There are a lot of great people out there willing to help. I work for a domestic violence/sexual assault agency in Nebraska and I've seen this senario played out all too often.

My first tip would be to continue supporting her. It was a big step for her or any woman to admit being physically or emotionally abused. Often times abusers isolate their victims and they find they have no support system. So above all, be her friend. As for marriage counseling, I'm sorry to say, but this probably won't help. The problem is not the marriage or how the couple interacts, the problem is the husband wanting CONTROL and POWER over his wife. I see a lot of cases where husbands are sent to anger management or marriage counseling and in the long run it usually doesn't help much. He should get himself checked into a batterer's program to really focus on his abuse and his triggers.

Again, I would say be supportive, let her vent to you and things you can say are: I am afraid for you. I am afraid for your safety. I am afraid for the safety of your children. I care about you. I am here to listen. You always have someplace else to go. NO ONE DESERVES TO BE ABUSED. Keep in mind this is going to take a long time for her to heal. Often times women's self esteem and confidence are destroyed by their abusers and it may take her a while to gain some of that back. Keep in mind also that on average it takes a woman 7-12 times before they eventually leave the abuser or die trying. And the average time a woman is in an abusive relationships is 8 years.

There isn't much you can do other than supporting her to convince her she needs to leave. It is ultimately her choice and something she needs to decide for herself. BUT....If you EVER suspect child abuse, YOU ARE MANDATED TO REPORT IT!!!

I guess this is pretty long winded, but if you want more resources, I would be more than happy to talk to you over the phone and send you some literature over the mail. My email is llechler@bbc.net.

Hope this helped, I could go on and on but hopefully this answered some questions.

Thank you all so much for your advice and stories. I'll continue to support her and I'll fly across the country to get her if she needs me; she's all alone in a new state so she's awfully lonely and isolated. I'm also not optimistic about the counseling but if it's what she needs to do I'll support her attempt to save the marriage, especially if she can consider the relationship done if the counseling fails. She's like a sister to me and I hate to see her hurting.
She, the husband, and the babies are visiting family in the city next week so I'm hoping to get some time alone with her to talk and give her lots of hugs. She's a strong woman and I admire her for calling a domestic abuse support line and going into marriage counseling but I'm going to worry about her regardless.

Well my dad had a pretty explosive temper when I was very young. He would hit us and I remember a couple times he slammed us into walls, but I don't think anything that would constitute abuse.
Sweetheart...hitting someone and slamming them into a wall is abuse. :hug:

I do believe people can change, even when they have deep-seated, serious "issues." People change every day. It happens. When people really want to, and have a lot invested in it, they can and do change. There are no guarantees, but it's far from impossible.

I think it's great that they are in counseling...I'm surprised that they are still living together for the time being though...usually counselors will recommend a separation while the abusive partner works on his or her anger issues. But of course that is not financially feasible for everyone. :-/

I really liked Llechler's post and would only like to add to it that "love" is a powerful word. Some of my friends who were in abusive relationships only heard that word from the abuser.

If you love your friend, tell her so. Feeling that she can be loved without being hurt is important in maintaining (or creating) self-esteem while in a bad relationship.

Also, I think it's a good sign that she's telling you about this. I'm hoping it means she won't put up with it again. At the very least, she's not in denial, and that's a better place than a lot of abused women.

I've known a few men who've "changed their ways" through programs especially designed for batterers.

Agreed with those who said that your friend *needs* to leave. She can still work on the relationship if she wants, but her safety (and that of her children!) should be without question, her #1 concern right now.

At the very least, I would encourage her to make an "safe bag"..the things she needs to survive if she has to leave in a hurry (medicines, spare car keys, records for the kiddos, etc.) As mentioned, violence can escalate very quickly..being able to get away fast can often mean the difference between safety and a trip to the hospital (or worse).

Support her the best you can, but don't sugar coat the situation for her. If her husband is abusing her, then she needs to get away.

i agree with jen and molly.

1. it is important that you support her so that she doesn't feel disconnected. For your own peace of mind, i would recommend that you set up a 'safety net' for her--get the numbers of domestic abuse hotlines and centers and be prepared to give them to her when she asks.

2. it is important that while she is trying to work things out, that she and her children are safe. if they are unsafe in their own home, they either need to a. leave or b. ask him to leave. I think that the second option is actually best. She should change the locks after he leaves.

she can explain to him, at the councellor, that she is doing this for the safety of their children until he demonstrates that he is changing and has changed. I believe that people can change, but it takes hard work and firm boundaries.

3. if she's unwilling to do 2, then i recommend the safety bag packed and a list of places to go and numbers to call. i also recommend that she set up a 'safety fund'--a private account that her husband doesn't have access to. This account should have enough money in it to get them started on a new rent, to make sure that the basic needs of the children and mother are taken care of.

The safety bag is a great idea....another thing that you could do is keep a log or journal of all the times your friend discloses abuse to you. If, in the future, she decides she wants a protection order (a legal and less messy way to kick the husband out of the house) you can give her this log/journal to add as documentation of her abuse. Hopefully, when she was injured she had pictures taken or some sort of documentation/police report/doctor's report. The more paperwork you have on him the better the chances of her getting a protection order when she wants one.

I love the idea for the safety bag and I'll mention that to her when I talk to her. Unfortunately, it's not feasible, from what she says, for them to live separately right now since he (the sole source of income) frittered away all their money on useless crap to the point that their electricity was turned off! I'm fixing up my spare room and checking plane fares just in case she needs a place to crash.

Thank you all for your ideas and support!

I know it's scary, but if she wants to live seperately she can do it. There's HHS services available to help single parents who are victims of domestic violence, she can get on tanf, food stamps, etc. until she gets back on her feet. Also, most domestic violence agencies have shelters where she and her children can stay free of charge until she gets work and a place of her own.

I love the idea for the safety bag and I'll mention that to her when I talk to her. Unfortunately, it's not feasible, from what she says, for them to live separately right now since he (the sole source of income) frittered away all their money on useless crap to the point that their electricity was turned off! I'm fixing up my spare room and checking plane fares just in case she needs a place to crash.

Thank you all for your ideas and support!

I think you sound like a really good friend and I'm sure that she'll appreciate you being there for her. People in abusive relationships need somebody to remind them that they are valuable human beings...so kudos to you.

VB - I agree with all the above posts and have to tell you again, you are being a GREAT and supportive friend... keep up the good work...

I left an abusive relationship 2 years ago for my safety, sanity and the mental health of my kids... It took me 15 YEARS to get the nerve to do it, and it was only with the support of friends (family didn't believe me, he was incredibly adept at "hiding" the abuse) that I managed to get out reletively intact....

He's gone through two years of drug rehab., court ordered therapy and counseling...and even though our relationship can never be mended, I honestly 'do' think he's changed... I respect how far he's come and the fact that he love his kids very much and wants to be able to spend time with them... (he never raised his voice - or a hand to them, or around them - but even so....)... I'm still not comfortable being around him due to the memories, but I do sense a huge change in him and know he's put a tremendous amount of time and effort into trying to change...

Who knows if it's permanent? Who knows if it's even "real"? I will never "get back together' with him - I've grown and changed too! I've become a LOT stronger...but I am optimistic that maybe sometimes abusive people "can" change.

At any rate, your friend's situation is different - she needs to take care of her children and herself NOW. All suggestions above are great - and she's lucky to have a friend like you!!!

Agreed with those who said that your friend *needs* to leave. She can still work on the relationship if she wants, but her safety (and that of her children!) should be without question, her #1 concern right now.
:yes:

And as far as my father goes... he used to by physically abusive to my mother and us kids. He has changed, kinda. He doesn't hit us anymore. As a child I wanted more than anything to call the police on him but I was too scared.

" He was a drill sarge in the army, and the army kept promising my mother's friend that they would get her husband help."

That is crazy. your mother's friend is the one that needs help, not her husband.

Yelling at a 4 and 16 month old (let alone the violence) makes me think he has VERY serious problems, the kind that aren’t fixed in a few months. If she were my friend I’d try my best to convince her to leave.