Fall Marathon Training

[sophiesox]

Hi, I'm training for the Chicago Marathon in October. Thought I would start a new summer thread for anyone who is training for a fall marathon anywhere, because for us, this summer's going to be critical! I'm a vegan and this will be my first marathon.

I've been bashed on this board before for not doing my "homework" and figuring out there's already a thread on my topic, so if there's something I'm missing, let me know, but I did try to look and didn't see a current thread for summer training for a fall marathon.

Thought we could regularly share our progress. There must be others out there working for fall marathons.

My current concerns: it's my first marathon, and I want to come in under 4 hours. I should also lose 10-20 pounds this summer, to get faster. So I have lots on my plate! Comments?

[Richard]

Hey Sophiesox;

I'm training for the Toronto marathon this fall... I'm signed up for a couple 1/2's this summer.. and hopefully by sept I'm ready to do the full 42K... Are you following any plans? (I'm on hal's plan)

http://www.halhigdon.com/halfmarathon/novice.htm


Hi, I'm training for the Chicago Marathon in October. Thought I would start a new summer thread for anyone who is training for a fall marathon anywhere, because for us, this summer's going to be critical! I'm a vegan and this will be my first marathon.

I've been bashed on this board before for not doing my "homework" and figuring out there's already a thread on my topic, so if there's something I'm missing, let me know, but I did try to look and didn't see a current thread for summer training for a fall marathon.

Thought we could regularly share our progress. There must be others out there working for fall marathons.

My current concerns: it's my first marathon, and I want to come in under 4 hours. I should also lose 10-20 pounds this summer, to get faster. So I have lots on my plate! Comments?

[sophiesox]

Hey, good to hear from you, Richard!
When is the Toronto marathon? I have relatives in Toronto. Maybe I will do that next year.

I will check out Hal's plan. I'm going to follow Kuehls' "Four Months to a Four Hour Marathon," a book I got about a year ago, when I was training for a spring marathon...but then I got some weird hip problem, had to stop, worked that out, now feel fine. It's a good plan, daily training regimen and suggestions about diet.

Have you ever run a marathon before?
I should probably do some half marathons before I do the whole one.

[CaptainSwab]

:hi: A bunch of us over in the hamsters run full and half marathons. It is a good spot to share our progress. My next marathon may or may not be this Saturday (haven't decided if I want to run the full or the half yet) if I do, it'll be my 5th one. Either that or I"m already signed up for Las Vegas in December. I guess that isn't really fall though is it?

Anyways, I jsut wanted to say that you should check out the hamsters. :yes:

[Cassiel]

I'm training for my second marathon (Portland) in October. Glad to hear from other psychopaths (or so my family calls us). :D Under 4 hours for your first marathon? I am in awe. My first took me over 5 hours, though my only goal was to finish. This year I'm focusing more on speed, though even my "fast" time this year will only be relatively so. Some of us truly are penguins. Happy penguins, nonetheless.

[Pigeonwhole]

I'm training for the Chicago marathon also. I'm a little worried that I'm doing to much at once but I'll see what my body tells me. I'm doing a sprint triathlon this summer and thats about it before the marathon in October, I believe thats when it is. I'll see what happens over the summer and if I actually train properly. How long have you been running for? I've only been running for about 3 months seriously that is, and the most I've run in a race is 10 miles. Hmm maybe I will wait a year or maybe I won't.

[brownieB26]

I'm signed up for the Chi marathon also!! :D :D

My training starts in June, and I'm going at ten minute miles (4 1/2 hours). I've got about 30 pounds to lose (I gained two freshman fifteens :worried: ) but I'm thinking it will come off with the running. Anyway, go to the homepage of the marathon and they'e got great tips. Running marathons shouldn't be any harder just because you're on a vegan diet. Just make sure its extremely balanced!!!

[Pigeonwhole]

Brownie what school do you attend? I'm following that same training pattern and my goal is the same as yours. I really think I'm going to do this as soon as I get some new shoes.

[Richard]

Hey Sophiesox:

Yea, the toronto Marathon is going to be in September... I've done a few 1/2 marathons, and have some this summer (as part of my training) - but this year will be my first full... (I must be nuts :)

As for diet suggestions... other than the big pasta dinner I have the night before.. and a good power bar in the morning.. I don't follow much else.. but, if you checkout the newsgroups, there are some awesome running areas you can get great info from.




Hey, good to hear from you, Richard!
When is the Toronto marathon? I have relatives in Toronto. Maybe I will do that next year.

I will check out Hal's plan. I'm going to follow Kuehls' "Four Months to a Four Hour Marathon," a book I got about a year ago, when I was training for a spring marathon...but then I got some weird hip problem, had to stop, worked that out, now feel fine. It's a good plan, daily training regimen and suggestions about diet.

Have you ever run a marathon before?
I should probably do some half marathons before I do the whole one.

[sophiesox]

Glad to hear about the Hamsters running Marathons...I'll check that out.
Yea, I'm being optimistic about the 4-hour first marathon. Frankly, when I do quarter-mile splits, getting them under 2 minutes is tough. Averaging 9 minute miles? for 26? maybe. The time will more likely be 5 hours, so don't be in awe.

On training: That "4 months to a 4 hour marathon" is a good book. I don't run in a lot of races or half marathons--I'm more of a loner as a runner, which probably isn't good training for a 30,000+ group run, ha ha.

Toronto marathon sounds cool. Maybe I'll make that my second one. I'd also like to check out Vancouver--do they have a big marathon?

Hey, all Chicago marathoners, let's find each other before the run starts and run together. I'm sure you'll be able to find me. I'll be wearing shorts and running shoes. :lol:

Just got back from my run and I'm all goofy.
How's everyone else coming along with training?

[smiling sara]

This is so AWESOME!

I'm currently debating training for a fall marathon - likely Columbus Oct 16, and then a 2nd, 2-5wks later (per Higdon back-to-back plan)....

I've done one marathon before (Cleveland '03, 4:07) and been on the runnersworld forums for a few years now, but, as I'm newly meatless, I was kinda wondering how Vegetarian marathon-trainers increase their protein for muscle-recovery. I realize vegetarians have plenty of protein sources and most meat-eaters get way more protein than humans need but still it'll be good to see what other endurance athletes do (I'm all about sleep & protein for recovery esp. right after long runs).... I imagine iron is important too.... But I'll be interested to see how likely-slightly-higher-carb intake before long runs may help???

This time I want to break 4hrs. I'm faster than I was when I started training last time, so with any luck/decent effort that should be realistic. Right now I'm at 20 miles/wk w/ a 10-mile long run; I write my own plan b/c I run 4x/wk (mid-long run mid-week helps keep mileage similar to tried & true plans) and space my LSD's out 1 1/2 wks towards the end of training....

Will be nice to have a support group here if you'll have me!
Good luck, especially to the first-timers!

[slynny]

Hi sophiesox, I just ran the Green Bay marathon last weekend and I plan to run the Lakefront in Milwaukee in Oct....it will be my 3rd.
So, what is your running experience? Have you run any races? How far is your longest run? What is your plan? What have you done so far? 4 hours is a great goal....nothing wrong with 5 though, I'll still be trying to break 5 in the fall. I'm pretty much a lone runner too.

smiling sara, Hi! I guess I've never worried to much about the protien. I take in a lot of soy products which provide all the protien I need. Iron, well...I take supplements...I'm anemic. I think carb intake before the runs is very important...and during the long runs too. I do the nasty gu stuff for anything over 12 miles. Yes, it helps.

good luck guys!

[sophiesox]

Hi all,
On protein, I never much worry about it either, because I eat so many nuts and beans...if anything, I'm probably over-fed in the protein department. Smiling Sara, are you talking about recovery after a long run, or after the Marathon?

I've never run a marathon. My longest run now is 12 miles. I run about 30 miles a week. I am trying to do some time trials, just to feel how a 9-minute mile feels.

Yea, I'm starting to think 5-hours is a good goal for marathon number one.
For those of you who have run marathons, please answer some questions for me: are there porta-potties along the way? maybe you don't even need to think about having to winkle :bow: because you are using up all your fluids...I'm a dork, I have all the doofus questions, but I'm not afraid to ask... :dizzy:

slynny, is the nasty gu stuff that jelly in the packets? never used it. how many should one bring along for a marathon?

[zoebird]

here's the thing that i like about distance running.

At some point, you are confronted with yourself--deeply and profoundly. And you either embrace that and work with it and keep running, or you walk away from running. If you try to run from it, it will chase you.

Marathon runners are the bomb-diggity at this distance running phenomenon. it's not an easy path. i commend you for it.

[Amy SF]

Please everybody read my thread in the Product Reviews forum about athletic socks and vegan athletic shoes. I'm really anxious for feedback on it. Thank you.

[sophiesox]

AmySF--I will read your product reviews on socks and shoes and get back to you via this.

zoebird--you are so right about the distance running. Just today I was running, and lately as I train I have been stopping to walk. I don't know why. So I thought, when I am about to stop and walk, what would happen if I just kept running?
Now mind you, I'm not approaching a heart attack or anything when I start to walk. My body is weirdly on auto pilot and it just walks. So I thought, I'm just going to keep running, putting one foot in front of the other, and watch what happens.
And it was weird, like an out-of-body experience, just watching myself run, feeling my legs get very heavy but keep on running. I think there's some lesson in this that will make sense in the marathon.

Running is endlessly fascinating, telling you so much about yourself... :idea:

[smiling sara]

Hi all,
On protein, I never much worry about it either, because I eat so many nuts and beans...if anything, I'm probably over-fed in the protein department. Smiling Sara, are you talking about recovery after a long run, or after the Marathon?

I've never run a marathon. My longest run now is 12 miles. I run about 30 miles a week. I am trying to do some time trials, just to feel how a 9-minute mile feels.

Yea, I'm starting to think 5-hours is a good goal for marathon number one.
For those of you who have run marathons, please answer some questions for me: are there porta-potties along the way? maybe you don't even need to think about having to winkle :bow: because you are using up all your fluids...I'm a dork, I have all the doofus questions, but I'm not afraid to ask... :dizzy:

slynny, is the nasty gu stuff that jelly in the packets? never used it. how many should one bring along for a marathon?

Protein? Important to me after both long runs and the race (or any shorter hard run/race that leaves you sore). I do agree that we can get plenty w/out meat; it's just gonna take a conscious effort for me.

12 mile long run and 30 miles/wk? That's an excellent base to start from for your first marathon! But try to have tiers of at least 3 goals such as: "Minimum I'll be happy with: finish and be a MARATHONER" "If I have a pretty-good day: this time" and "If weather cooperates and stars are in alignment and I'm feeling especially awesome: this time".

Yes, there are porta-potties along the way. But if there's not one at the exact point you need it, many runners will just find a bush and go anyway (yes, sometimes women too). And you may be less likely to need it than you think b/c like you suspected, once you start running, liquid is getting used rather than going to your bladder. You can get an idea about what to expect, and the best ways to fuel/hydrate, from your long runs. One strategy that works for me is to hydrate the day before, drink a big glass of water when I first wake up, but then drink nothing for 2hrs before the race (if your pee is clear you ARE hydrated!), except maybe 4oz 20 min before. Of course this involves getting up 2hrs before your long run which may or may not be convenient. On race day it works about right, considering drive-time to the race site. I think I think about this stuff way too much though (tummy is starting to turn knots). Try NOT to worry too much and just take things as they come. No matter how much you anticipate, something will not go as expected, but hopefully/usually this just won't be a big deal. Worrying only wastes energy.

[sophiesox]

Slynny, wow, you are a marathoner. How was the Green Bay marathon? I like your idea about making tiers of goals. My most basic one...just finish under 6 hours (that's when they shut the thing down!!!) If I'm feeling pretty good...I'd be VERY pleased with under 5 hours. Under 4 hours is a dream, but I'm not going to be unrealistic; I mean, this is my first marathon.

I worry about the first marathon jitters. I'll be running on a course I'm not familiar with. I'm not even living in Chicago; I'll have to drive up the night before, stay at a hotel, and get up super early. So different course, different city, although I'm familiar with Chicago.

Just got back from a long run. Feeling good this week...actually total of about 35 miles this week.

Other experienced marathoners...any tips for first-timers? Any things you wish you had known before your first marathon? I (we) need all the tips we can get.

[kathym]

Well gang I've been running marathons off and on for years and I have never done under 7 hours!!!!! In fact one year it was either the late 80's or early 90's a friend of mine talked me in to doing a marathon out in Northern California that had only about 300 runners at that time and it was a 6 hour limit. I knew that I should not do it; it was so hilly that not only was I the last one to come in but it was shut down and the only people left were the clean-up crew and the medics driving behind me. I offered to quit so they could leave but they told me to take my time. HA! Later I thought I bet they are getting over time pay. Hehehe! But hey… if they got an hour over time...Good for them!

So every one of you should be proud of yourselves. Now that I’m (cough-cough) 50 (cough-cough) something I actually seem to be getting faster SO see what you all have to look forward too…you’ll get even faster with age!!!!

I’m training now for the Atlanta Thanksgiving Day ½ Marathon so I guess I fall into this Fall training category!

[sophiesox]

kathym, you're awesome, keep running the marathons.
I'm all talk but I have no idea what my time will be like.

Anyone else doing Chicago in October, I signed up for the 18-week Hal something online training. A daily training regimen, sounds good! I like the idea of not having to think about it on my own, trusting a proven program. Anyone else doing this?
I got smart and signed up as a novice.

Did a long run today.

What does everyone do if their lower back starts to ache just a bit after several miles from holding yourself in the same position for so long?

[brownieB26]

I haven't done long runs in a long long time, but whenever my back got sore I remembered to hold myself up using my core ab muscles. I don't know if that's what you're talking about, but tht's the only reason I could think of that your back would hurt during a run

[CaptainSwab]

Hi all,
On protein, I never much worry about it either, because I eat so many nuts and beans...if anything, I'm probably over-fed in the protein department. Smiling Sara, are you talking about recovery after a long run, or after the Marathon?

I've never run a marathon. My longest run now is 12 miles. I run about 30 miles a week. I am trying to do some time trials, just to feel how a 9-minute mile feels.

Yea, I'm starting to think 5-hours is a good goal for marathon number one.
For those of you who have run marathons, please answer some questions for me: are there porta-potties along the way? maybe you don't even need to think about having to winkle :bow: because you are using up all your fluids...I'm a dork, I have all the doofus questions, but I'm not afraid to ask... :dizzy:

slynny, is the nasty gu stuff that jelly in the packets? never used it. how many should one bring along for a marathon?

I know that smiling sara already answered your question on portta pottys, but I will just add that depending on the race you are running, the lines can be verrrrrry long. Two years ago at the LA marathon, I had to go so bad that I stood in line for 15 minutes just to use one! They had tons out there, there were just so many runners. I dont' know why, but it seems like I only have to pee on course when I am running in a large event with long lines. :D

How much gu you want depends on your needs. Some people just stick to gaterade. Some people take a gu every hour. Some take it every 5, 6, or 7 miles. Just depends.

Not sure about your back pain...

[slynny]

Sophie, Green Bay was great.
I've dreamt many a times about qualifing for the Boston....my hub just keeps telling me I need to train faster.... :furious: It seems I try so hard already, but I know he is right. Hehehehe....I'll just stick to the under 5 hour dream for a while. Everyone worries about the coarse and is nervous....everyone! It helps to get a map of the coarse and I'm thinking for Chicago you should be able to get one on-line...I should check it out myself I guess...I've thought about doing Chicago. I don't think Chicago is very hilly,
Most marathons have lots of water, gaterade, and sometimes .....gu, cookies, bananas, and oranges along the way. You should be able to find this info when you register as well as rest room stops, or at least when you pick up your packet. I don't know how Chicago goes, but be warned the last two marathons I ran, the race info was inconsistant with what was on the coarse. So, if you want gu, bring your own...just in case, if you are going to use gu, you should train with it. I'd say that goes for anything with your marathon. If you're thinking about taking it on the marathon, take it on a long run first. If you haven't taken it on a long run, don't take it on the marathon. wait till you really have to go bad...go when you see a line not to long.
Sofar I've always driven to the race the day before and stayed overight, it's easier to get ready the next day. I would suggest if possible to get a place close to the start....it's that much eisier.
Ack...I'm falling asleep....I'll write more later.
slynny

[Professor12]

Well I've been lurking on here (and on runnersworld forums) for a long period but this seems to be an appropriate time to chime in. I have been running long distance for about two years now. I ran my first marathon, the Phoenix Rock and Roll, this January and ended up coming in at just under 3 and a half hours. I had actually been hoping for a better performance but a combination of factors ended up hampering me on race day.
For the first time marathoner I think my best advice would be to take the training slowly, making sure to increase mileage at a rate of no more than 10 percent or thereabouts a week. Coupled with this is the necessity to take an "easier" week once every three to four where you cut mileage back a little in order to let your body recover and prepare for your next increase in mileage. Since your following Hal's program, you need not worry about this as it is already a part of his training schedule but it is something to keep in mind in the future (I have learned the lesson the hard way by overtraining ---> getting injured ---> overtraining etc.). As for the race itself, go out at a comfortable pace, slower than your goal pace. You don't want to burn yourself out early in the race when you have another 20 or more miles ahead of you (another mistake I made... I went out too fast, did the first half in a little over 1:30 and subsequently crashed during the last twelve or so miles). Also make sure you keep yourself hydrated and that you eat a solid breakfast before the race (though it is VERY important that you eat something you have tried multiple times before long runs as a common problem for long distance runners is stomach distress leading to some very unpleasant moments especially when a porta-potty/bathroom isn't forthcoming).
I went vegetarian right after my marathon and have been vegan for about a month now and have not experienced any ill effects to my training. My only advice in that regard is to make sure you are eating enough to support your rising activity levels and basing your diet around whole foods. Hope this helps.


Btw... Anyone else running the marine corps marathon in the fall?

Oh and you might want to include a core strengthening regimen with your running especially if you're have difficulties with your back. Distance running relies on core strength for stability and support. Runningtimes and Runnersworld both have online articles with strength training tips for runners which would be appropriate.