Non-spanking forms of discipline

[colorful]

Okay, we had the spanking thread and a lot of us have decided not to spank our children.

So, what forms of discipline work for you? We're constantly trying new tactics, and adjusting old ones, but whenever a tactic appears not to be working, my husband always comes back to "maybe we should re-think the spanking issue." *sigh* We had another one of these discussions (arguments) last night, and I told him I had tons of literature that I could show him that supports why NOT to spank. My husband said, "I'm not interested in hearing what NOT to do, I want to know what TO do." Smart man.

I'd like to hear what the non-spankers on this board are doing as far as disciplining their kids. And spankers, too, for that matter, what are you doing besides spanking? What works? What doesn't?

[Jinga]

Since I've not had my own kids, I've never had the option to spank. Generally speaking, the kids were very responsive to any consistant discipline. The punishment would really vary depending on the 'crime'. In a room filled with one year olds, my options were fairly limited. If they were misusing a toy (ie-hitting other children over the head, throwing it across the room, etc.), I just took the toy away for the rest of the day. If they were using their bodies to hurt other children, I simply removed them from the situation for a few minutes. If they were bored and getting into things, we got out a new activity. Your son is starting to get beyond the age of my old kiddies, though. Perhaps, if you posted a specific behavior you are wanting to correct, the VB experts could give you some more accurate advice.

[colorful]

. Perhaps, if you posted a specific behavior you are wanting to correct, the VB experts could give you some more accurate advice.

Okay, I'll give you a specific behavior we're struggling with right now. My son hates having his diaper changed, and lately he will hit us, pinch us, or kick us while we are trying to change his diaper. Now, generally when he exhibits this kind of aggressive behavior, I respond by walking away from him for a bit, which has been working beautifully. However, on the changing table I know he is doing it because he is trying to get out of having his diaper changed. I feel that if I put him down and walk away, then his aggressive behavior has gotten him EXACTLY what he wanted - it's gotten him out of having his diaper changed (or at least delayed the process). So, that tactic doesn't work in that particular situation, and I'm at a loss of what else to try.

BTW, this is one specific example, but I am also interested in hearing what non-spankers use as their discipline tools for all ages, all behaviors! My son is 20 months now, but I'll be raising him for many years to come so it's all relevant to me!

[smedley]

is there a special very desirable toy/object you could give him just prior to changing so he will be distracted?

[colorful]

is there a special very desirable toy/object you could give him just prior to changing so he will be distracted?

Yes, prevention is the main tactic we are using right now. When I see that he needs a change, I tell him it's time for a diaper change. If he is protesting strongly, I usually say, "okay, you can play for 2 more minutes, then we'll change your diaper." I set the kitchen timer and when it goes off, I tell him that it's time. Then I say, "choose a toy to bring with you" and I let him bring one along.

However, even with all these efforts, he occasionally is just in a foul mood and will lash out at us on the changing table. It's at that point that any special toy we try to give in is immediately thrown on the ground in a violent rage, followed by him hitting, or whatever else it might be.

[smedley]

do you always change him in the same spot? maybe he does not like the changing table? kids get weird ya know?lol
do you have to tell him you are going o change him? maybe do not tell him and give something unusual like one of your hair clips or something?
tough one. can you restrain all of his limbs with one hand and chnage with the other as quick as possible? constant verbal reminders that we dont hit/kick whatever because hitting/kicking hurts.
have you tried singing while changing?

[MollyCat]

This may sound odd but have you watched either Supernanny or Nanny 911? I've seen Supernanny perform miracles with unruly children, much worse than what you decribe. She usually favours something called a 'naughty place' or 'naughty chair' but I'm not sure if that would work in your situation.
I like Smedley's idea of giving him a favourite toy that he's only allowed to play with during diaper changes and afterwards. This way he'll have something to look forward to. Maybe even treats of some kind would work. Healthy treats, of course, but something that he really likes and gets rarely. I think the main thing to do is be consistent and if he acts up during a diaper change, he doesn't get the treat or the toy.
I hate to harp on TV shows but Dr.Phil has been doing his Family First series and he has great advice on how to deal with children of all ages. Maybe check out his website.

[smedley]

IMO it is a very very very bad idea to give food treats to modify behavior.

[MollyCat]

IMO it is a very very very bad idea to give food treats to modify behavior.

Okay, it was just a suggestion.

[smedley]

Okay, it was just a suggestion.
i did not mean it to be attacking you in any way. just my opinion. it is commonly done. :D

[hazardbliss]

Changing my son's diaper started getting really difficult at around eight months of age. So I just stopped changing him while he was lying down. What I did (and still do) was just rinse him off in the sink or bathtub, that way he actually got excited about changing his diaper, as he loves playing with water. What I also love about this method is that it is not wasteful, and I never have to use wipes. I know this may not be practical for everyone, but it worked for me.

As far as discipline goes, my son is only 18 months old, so when he "misbehaves" I just remove him from the situation or distract him. If we're at home and he throws a tantrum, I usually just give him a great big hug until he calms down, and that works like a charm for both him and me-- at first we're both frustrated and angry but the act of hugging just melts it all away.

[Kreeli]

colourful, have you considered just letting him go diaper-free? maybe it's time for toilet learning? 20 months certainly isn't unheard of as an age to begin life without diapers. it could be that he's just finished with them but doesn't have the words to tell you that.

[hazardbliss]

^^that's a good idea. :yes:

We go diaper free most of the time, and this takes a lot of the stress that goes with changing diapers away. My son is down to about two diapers a day, and goes in the potty the rest of the time. I wouldn't say that he's potty trained by any means, but spending so much time without a diaper has made him very away of his bodily functions. With the diaper free method all you need to do is wipe with some toilet paper after a bowel movement, it's so much easier!

[Jinga]

Some of the kids in my class had trouble staying still for changing. My best advice for that is to come up with some game or toy that is only played (or played with) at the changing table. It may also be a sign that he will soon be ready for potty training :D

[colorful]

colourful, have you considered just letting him go diaper-free? maybe it's time for toilet learning? 20 months certainly isn't unheard of as an age to begin life without diapers. it could be that he's just finished with them but doesn't have the words to tell you that.

Yes, we started potty training about a month ago. I guess I never considered that there could be a connection between starting potty training and his increased bad behavior on the changing table.

We're letting him lead the potty training at this point, since he's still so young. He tells me probably 2 or 3 times a day that he wants to go pee pee, then he sits on the toilet for 10 minutes or so, and about half of the time, he'll pee, about half of the time, nothing happens and he finally says "all done." I don't think he'd be ready to go diaper free at this point. He's never pooped in the potty yet and we are renting a fully carpeted apartment!

[Kreeli]

well, my point was, that maybe it's about discerning the reasons behind an undesireable behaviour (like hitting you when you're trying to change him) and trying to pre-empt it rather than waiting for the poor behaviour to happen and then disciplining him for it. yk?

i'll tell you something - after raising two kids through infancy and toddlerhood, they do go through phases that are viscious sometimes. it's mostly because they are frustrated at their lack of independance and self-sufficiency and their inability to make you understand what they want/need through words. so my suggestion is to move away from diapers, or get pull-ups, to let him know that you're willing to forgo the diaper changes if he's willing to take the next steps towards being diaper-free.

if that's the only time your son acts out like that i'm thinking it's a pretty clear sign that he feels ready to get off the changing table.

[angel22z]

My daughter is 15 mo. and we are having the same problem she's always trying to stand up, turn over, get away - when distracting does not work what I do is... stop trying to change her but I make her lay down & keep turning her over (until she stops trying to turn over) a lot of times she'll start kicking and throwing her fists so I hold her fists and go up close to her face (even if she is screaming at the top of her lungs) and look her in the eye and calmly talk to her I ask her to please stop, tell her I need to finish changing her diaper after I talk to her for a minute 99% of the time she will let me change her diaper (crying but not fighting). Once in a great while she is tired or frustrated and is just having a meltdown then I just have to wait it out. It takes a lot of patience. Sometimes it is necessary to step back from a situation for a second (even if only mentally) then “go back” and do your best. Good luck.

[frenchie]

is there a special very desirable toy/object you could give him just prior to changing so he will be distracted?

Don't change him on the table in the first place. You know how he is going to react to that situation, so avoid it from the get go. Change him on the floor.

[rainbowmoon]

I've never met a kid who didn't fuss when I tried to change their diapers, actually. Usually its all about getting a stuffed animal and having them talk to the kid, or trying to distract them with music or something. I don't know, maybe I've just babysat for little monsters!

[FreshTart]

Don't change him on the table in the first place. You know how he is going to react to that situation, so avoid it from the get go. Change him on the floor.

...and what happens if the kid does the same on the floor?

[colorful]

I've really appreciated all of your suggestions re. the diaper changing issue.

I'd like to stear this thread back to a more general discipline discussion, as well. I know that whatever we are dealing with this week, or this month, is going to change just as quickly as it started. Some of you have older kids, and I would love to hear what discipline techniques you are using with them.

My concern (and my husband's concern) is that, with our no-spank philosophy, we are going to end up with an unruly child on our hands. So, I would really like to know what the non-spanking crowd does when their children just REALLY cross the line, what kind of recourse there is, what discipline techniques you use?

[Christine]

As far as the diaper changing problem, I also think potty training might be the solution. Both my kids were day time "trained"(I hate that word) by 18 months (a boy and a girl, and despite what everyone told me to expect, my son was not any harder to teach than my daughter) - It took a little work and a lot of consistancy, but contrary to popular belief (at least in this country) it's really not that hard to teach s child to use the toilet before, or at least by, age 2. Another idea if you aren't ready for potty training would be to try changing him standing up for the "pee" diapers. Obviously he'd still have to lie down for the poo changes, but those are less frequent than the pee changes. And if you do see him starting to push, run him to the toilet and save yourself the hassle! :)


We are also a non-spanking family and the most effective form of discipline I have found is using a time-out chair. I will give them one warning and tell them if they don't stop they will get a timeout, if they do it again it's straight to the timeout chair and I set the oven timer for however many minutes the timeout is for (bigger no-no's get longer time) It's also VERY important to take time to get on their level, eye to eye and talk to them about why what they did is wrong and talk with them about suggestions to do differently in the future. When kids feel respected, they feel better about themselves and therefore behave better. Postitive reinforcement when they are being good is also very important. Also when it applies, I try to make the punishment be the logical consequence of the action (i.e. you hit your sister w/ your dinosaur toy = your toy gets taken away and put up) Most, if not all, of my discipline problems come w/ my kids fighting (which really doesn't happen that much, they get along wonderfully 95% of the time, but it can occasionally get ugly - especially when they are tired and/or bored), so I am trying to teach them how to compromise and talk things out between themselves so they don't run to me about every little disagreement or end up screaming at each other. Individually I have very little discipline problems with either of them, in fact I can't think of anything at all that either of them have gotten in trouble for (aside from fighting with each other) in a long time. I guess we're doing something right! LOL! I highly recommend Dr. Sears "Discipline Book" it helped us tremendously through the more difficult years (my kids are 3 and 5 now, so it's a LOT easier now that they can be reasoned with). Also know that phases pass and if you remain positive and consistant, it gets a LOT easier down the road. :)

Anyway, I kind of rambled on but hopefully there might be something helpful in there somewhere!

Christine :)

[bethanie]

I have to agree with kreeli...the more you can move him toward 'independence' of the changing table altogether, the better it will go....give him a pull up, show him how to put it on.

As for the original question, I am finding more and more that whenever I can let my daugther have independence, coupled with responsibility for one's actions, the better she does. In Montessori, we teach...respect for self, respect for others, respect for environment. I don't time out in the classroom. Children are responsible for cleaning their own messes, for fixing their own problems with friends (occasionally teacher intervention is needed to facilitate 'polite' conversation ;)), and dealing with the consequences. I've been doing this more and more at home in the past year and finding the results at home have been really good. You're responsible for you. If you make a mistake, you need to fix that. We all make them, and I set an example by cleaning up after me, apologizing when I've been wrong, etc. But I also enforce the 'natural consequences'....things that get broken are not automatically replaced. When my daughter came to a point where she'd broken two of our good glasses, we decided she needed to use a plastic cup for a while, and try again when she's taking better care of things.

With arguements...if you are talking back to me, I won't stop you physically and I probably won't yell, but I also don't want to be around you right now because you aren't treating me well....please go have some time to yourself.

I think expectations should be VERY age appropriate, that children do not need to feel a sense of 'shame' or 'guilt' so much as a sense of responsibility, and respect...and wanting to help take care of the community. This takes time and patience of course, but it works for us.

B

[bethanie]

My daughter is seven btw.

One more addition...it's important to be consistent to a FAULT. If they find the holes in your system, of course as humans are tend to do, they will find the easiest route out. My daughter just started doing dishes. She wants an allowance. We'd tried it before but found she really wasn't willing to put the effort into doing chores, so I told her we'd try later. The other day she told me she would wash dishes three days a week, and I told her this would be a great help to me (as I have always done all the dishes, and we don't have a washer). So tonight after dinner, I reminded her it was her turn to do them if she wanted to meet her three night a week goal.

B

[TreeManEarthSteward]

:devil: *peeks in* :down: :devil: .....*peeks out* :up: