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I'm with you on this. :yes: I consider Nature a Goddess, but it's more a turn of phrase than a belief that Nature is a human-like being living in the clouds & having immense powers.
I am very puzzled by the popularity of Jesus. So much blood has been shed for some religions it makes me devoutly against them.

Well when she and I were having breakfast on the porch Saturday, she said you'd probably bring this up...

Thats easy..God saved the Jews out of Egypt, of course there was that Hitler thing a few centuries after that. Well I saw one of those TV guys..Benny Hinn lay hands on a lady and God cured her of headaches, well then there was those 250,000 he seemed to overlook in that Tsunami. Ummm..Mary appered on a grilled chesse sandwich!..but then theres that drought in the Sudan..I hope this helped.

Gosh..I almost forgot and had to add..the Pope is doing better! Of course theres that bird flu,AIDs,and world hunger thing..but we still got the Pope and Jimmy Swaggert!

I think that if there is a God, then there are ways to understand the phenomenon aside from blind faith, which has always been my issue with religion. So far, the focus is on believing, rather than questioning. Since questioning things has been the source of all human knowledge, I think that to know god (in the human sense) we need to question more, especially in the supernatural arena.

:)

The Rev

I'm agnostic. To be honest I think humans need a god and we rightfully created the idea of one. Do I know there's a god? No. But I cannot prove there is one nor disprove there isn't. If it shows up at my doorstep and says "Here I am! Happy now?" I'll say "Yep" and believe.

You still wouldn't be able to get my bum in church...but that's another topic. :p

I guess I'm agnostic too because like Tiggzie I don't have proof that God exists and I don't have proof that he/she/it doesn't. There is this faith people talk about where you believe even if you don't have proof but I guess I don't have that..

I have complete faith in the divine. However, I'll never let a pandit, imam, prophet, priest, minister, missionary, building or edifice, ecclesiastical or otherwise, book, edict, commentary, AND ESPECIALLY NOT a politician, family member, website or other e-construction, get in the way of me and my God.

I think in some cases religion forms an excellent structure for people to relate to their conception of the divine. As Yann Martel says, "Certain illusions about freedom plague [religion]", and while its contribution to worldwide bloodshed cannot be disputed, there are some practitioners who are cultivating a beautiful, positive faith that helps them and others live in this life.

In other cases, it's responsible for countless acts of everyday brutality, thoughtlessness and hatred. So I'm spiritual, but not religious. I don't think the two necessarily relate unless the religious practitioner in question relates them.

He's real, he's there, he's personal, he loves me. But you are just going to have to take my word for it. He's not going to force himself on you, so if you don't believe, he won't bother you. You are missing an adventure though.

He's real, he's there, he's personal, he loves me. But you are just going to have to take my word for it. He's not going to force himself on you, so if you don't believe, he won't bother you. You are missing an adventure though.

:up:

Having been a devout Christian at one time and not being one now (though I'm not an atheist), I can only say the religious/spiritual experience is personal and you can't assume your experience of reality is any more "real" than someone else's.

So please don't apply your religious/spiritual beliefs to other people, such as this example:

He's not going to force himself on you, so if you don't believe, he won't bother you. You are missing an adventure though.

That's about the rudest thing you can do to a person, in my opinion.

Having been a devout Christian at one time and not being one now (though I'm not an atheist), I can only say the religious experience is personal and you can't assume your experience of reality is any more "real" than someone else's.

So please don't apply your religious beliefs to other people, such as this example:



That's about the rudest thing you can do to a person, in my opinion.

Ludi, I'm confused. I took from Life2K's post that she was encouraging others to pursue their own experience, not applying or forcing, and I certainly didn't think she was being rude. Can you explain that a little more, for my sake? You can PM me if desired.

I've always been a person who thinks things through and tries to apply reasoning to everything. This situation is no different. I have never been offered proof that god exists. In fact, most scientific evidence points towards the fact that god doesn't exist, or at least does not support it.

I also have a small problem with the fact that religion has been, and still is,one of the main reasons for wars, racism, sexism, and countless deaths in the same of some higher power. (Note that I'm not applying this only to Christianity.)

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So please don't apply your religious/spiritual beliefs to other people, such as this example:

He's not going to force himself on you, so if you don't believe, he won't bother you. You are missing an adventure though.



I was going to mention that as well, but I didn't want to offend anyone...

Here's how I view religion- There are two ways that the universe came into being. One is that it didn't-something, be it matter, particles, whatever...has always existed. This theory is hard to believe because the concept of an infinitely long universe existence is hard to accept. To me, the second theory is more plausible, although very confusing as well-at some point, something came from nothing. That something-the first bit of material in space-has evolved and changed ever since its coming into being. I have no way of knowing if it evolved superhuman powers. Maybe it evolved into humans, maybe something else that created Earth. But in my opinion, the first bit of space material, the one that came out of nothing, is God.

The mere fact that EVERY religion thinks their spiritual leader is the one and only should make you think. If we assume that a god exists, then only one god could have created the world, hence only one religion can actually be correct. Which one is it?

I cannot speak for Ludi but what Life2K said can be taken as "Yeah he exists. If you don't believe, you're losing out" as opposed to saying "Yes he exists for me" God doesn't exist for everyone therefore it should not be stated that anyone is missing out on anything.

I for one am glad you found God, Life. I'm just pointing that out. :D

But it should be noted that religion/spirituality is not a prerequisite to kindness.

I agree, Comrade.

So in this thread we are discounting any and all subjective experience? If it cannot be proven, it doesn't exist? Not trying to be snide, just clarifying....

his theory is hard to believe because the concept of an infinitely long universe existence is hard to accept.



But in my opinion, the first bit of space material, the one that came out of nothing, is God.


So in other words, it's hard to believe unless it support the theory that god exists?
That theory is just as infeasible if you place God at the beginning of the chain. If nothing can come from nothing, then God cannot come from nothing.

I'm retiring from this thread. If anyone cares to discuss this reasonably, just IM me. :yes:

My experiance was Christian recording artist/worship leader/ speaker/youth minister. I became more and more aware of the inconsistancies in the church and what is supposed to be. I tried the just trust me I know route and was used and abused. Ive seen people minipulated. I saw people on a huge power trip. But its what I didnt see that opened my eyes. I didnt see any changed people..it was all the same behaivour,just now it was in the name of god. I started looking at things like why an airplane crash kills 300 people..but god will heal someone of a headcold. When I had these questions and asked my dear brothers I was slowly riden out of the kingdom on a rail. Im glad it happened, I dont want to be like them. And if there is a heaven and god I sure couldnt see sing worship songs to him for eternity being much fun. Plus the downside of being with those people would drive me nuts! Anyway thats how I feel. Im really really sorry if I hurt anyone but I had to give my 2cents. I just dont believe.

If nothing can come from nothing, then God cannot come from nothing.

It isn't very easy to believe, but if you think that something never came from nothing, then you think that something has always existed (unless you have another theory.) That to me is even more unbelievable than something coming from nothing. If you thinkI am being unreasonable, I honestly don't care. I am stating my opinion.

I think that's it not for me to know. If he is real, that's great, but I don't think about it too much. I'll know soon enough. I respect other peoples' beliefs though. I just do what I think is right in my heart and hopefully there is something wonderful after this life.

I think that if there is a God, then there are ways to understand the phenomenon aside from blind faith, which has always been my issue with religion. So far, the focus is on believing, rather than questioning. Since questioning things has been the source of all human knowledge, I think that to know god (in the human sense) we need to question more, especially in the supernatural arena.

:)

The Rev

This is why I am so attracted to Buddhism. Buddha said to question even his own teachings. Test them using your own intelligence. Of course, Buddha is not a "god."

In the Bible, there are warnings against "testing" God. Warnings against being led astray by other teachings. This just rubs me the wrong way.

I believe that if something is true, it will withstand all the scrutiny, testing, doubts, questioning, comparison with other teachings, etc. that a person can do. I think a giant red flag comes up in any religion when followers are warned not to think for themselves.

I'm not convinced there is a God, but I'm not convinced there isn't one, either. I'd like to think there is, although I don't think the Bible depicts him/her accurately. I do pray for my family, and give thanks, and I think some good comes from that.