or what about the men that can't quite connect with their kids at birth because doing the "baby thing" isn't "manly" enough? they miss out on all the beautiful little moments of bonding that are there for the taking with babies and small children...

Or that man are being praised for working a day less to be with their child and if woman say that she is going to work three days after birth people tend to think that’s a lot.?

Seadolphin
The school district I work for really penalizes women for going on maternity leave. Many of us here find it extremely unfair that not only does a woman who goes on maternity leave lose all her sick leave for the year, she also loses a year on the pay scale. Very sexist in my opion, & we are fight to get this changed.

Wow, I didn’t know that, and would not have expected that from a civilised 1st world country. In my country woman get 4-6 week sick leave before giving birth and another 6 weeks (I think) after giving birth. After that they can choose to take parental leave for a number of hours in 6-12 month.

“Tame:
Before I was married, I worked with a company that provided paid family leave, and let me tell you, it sucked of those of us not eligible to use it.”

That’s more envy than a argument.

“Tame:
If you don't work or are not as productive, you should not be paid the same as me.”

Does the same go for men? Afaik people are paid on the basis of the hours they attend at work. Most office jobs are not paid on the amount of paper you “move”.

About the compliment item:
It depends on the case. If you say “O that’s a nice blouse your wearing”, with eyes fixed on a certain chest height: that could easily be sexism.

Originally posted by Tame
Kreeli - I have to disagree that providing paid leave, etc. for couples having children is not providing "special rights". Before I was married, I worked with a company that provided paid family leave, and let me tell you, it sucked of those of us not eligible to use it. We were more productive, at work more, and yet were still on the same footing as those able to take time off for family time. Sorry, that isn't "fair". If you don't work or are not as productive, you should not be paid the same as me.

Of course, I changed jobs just before marriage. Should have thought that through more... :(

I agree. People choose to have kids. Those of use who choose not to shouldn't be denied time off for the important personal life event that are important to us- even if it's not having kids. I think there should be paid family leave that is just generic- that can be used for any personal issue- having a kid, greiving, caring for a loved one, or caring for oneself. All of those things are important, and giving singles and parents benefits alike improves workplace moral bc there is less resentment. I feel it benefits society for a workplace to support children rearing, but it should then give non-parents an equivelent form of support. Otherwise it sort of sends the message that the only people in the world who have important things in their lives other than work are people who choose to have kids.

The issue should be though, is it the woman of the couple who always takes all the time off? If I were married, I would want to take off half of the total time off that we thought should be taken off, and then he take off the other half. That way both of our careers are impacted.

This is something that has always bothered me about sick time for people with families. For instance, this guy I work with takes off whenever one of his three kids or wife is sick (which is like every other week). If his kids are sick then his wife should be able to take care of them. If his wife is sick she should be able to take care of herself. No one is there to take care of me when I'm sick.

I just feel that sick time and vacation time should all be bundled together. There's too much abuse. Some companies do that, unfortunately mine doesn't. I'm sure I'll feel differently when I have a family but it's really unfair to those that don't. </rant>

My dad's company just calls it all 'personal time'. My dad doesn't get sick very often at all, so that means more vacation or more cashed-in days for him.

Originally posted by Tame
We were more productive, at work more, and yet were still on the same footing as those able to take time off for family time. Sorry, that isn't "fair". If you don't work or are not as productive, you should not be paid the same as me.


Productivity is measured in “actions per time unit” something like:

Checked contracts per hour.
Not the amount of work a person does in a week.

Example:
Part-timer; 10 contracts an hour for 20 hours per week = 200 contracts a week.
Full timer: 8 contracts an hour for 40 hours a week = 320 contracts a week.

Who is the most productive? (answer: the part timer)
But you knew that didn’t you tame?

Yes, I did know that. Your point? Of course, when the job is not broken down into such simple units, productivity is harder to measure.
Of course, your analysis asumes the part-timers are paid part-time wages. In my case, we were all paid on the same full-time salary scale, yet the employees with children were able to take more time off.