Where do you draw the line?

[V422005]

I don't like ignorant bigots who think, in the 21st century, it's acceptable to refer to people as "colored" or "Negro." That said, I also don't appreciate my new Women's Studies prof, who is OBVIOUSLY an Afro-Am prof as well (the department I have been trying to get away from--long story, but basically, too much pain involved there). This professor first asked everyone what their motivation was for being in the class, and proceeded to rip every white student who answered the question a new one, no matter what they said. The manner in which she did it was extremely calculated.

I am torn, again. I had an Afro-Am prof last year who was EXTREMELY despondent. I understand their anger, of course I do! This is not to say I don't understand their anger. I KNOW why they behave this way. I used to do what they did, but I couldn't be a prisoner anymore. But the fact is that you cannot treat your students in this manner. I could not, would not do what this professor has done, because, in addition to making me angrier, it would accomplish NOTHING. It does not enlighten or educate people to attack them.

It frustrates me to no end that a woman at least six years (I'm guessing) older than myself has still not grasped this.

[Life2k]

We will stick her on our prayer list. She is a prisoner of her own hatred.

[beforewisdom]

Make written notes of her behaviour ( audio recordings are better ).

Take those notes to someone above the dean of the department. Ask to drop the class and have your tuition refunded or credited towards another class.

At first they will be shocked as they used to students being cows who eat what they are fed. Then they will refuse. Persist politely, with good, reasoned arguments. They are academics they understand that. They will cut you a deal at some point.

Your educational resources and time are precious. You will never again have this kind of access to learning in your adult life.

Make the most of it.

Don't waste your time and money.

Take classes from people that will teach you facts, skills, how to think and/or things that will make you into a proactive person.

[V422005]

It's not like that in this case, I must say. I understand her rage, which sets me apart from another person who might complain about this.

HOWEVER, I see the futility and destructiveness of this. I am ambivalent.

[AngelOfDance]

I hate to be negative, but when it comes to employees and non-white people saying and doing things that could be seen as racist, people don't tend to be willing to listen.

The general rule when it comes to legal stuff etc. is that if you're not white, anything a white person says to you can be racist. If you're reprimanded for making racial comments or treating your white students differently, it's all too easy to turn that around and make a big stink over it. And it's a lot easier to find sympathy and have people believe you if you aren't white.

This is obviously not how it is in all cases, but I see it happen A LOT in my younger sister's school. She goes to a school that is very diverse and takes pride in that fact. I think, at this point, more than half the children are Hispanic.

The Hispanic kids and even adults constantly treat the white kids badly. Make racist jokes and comments, etc. "Stupid American" is an extremely common phrase.

There are programs set up that only the Hispanic kids are allowed to participate in (such as certain cultural celebrations that the kids get out of class free and get food and a party for, Mexican dance classes, etc. My sister want to dance! Just because she was born in Pennsylvania and her mom speaks English, why shouldn't she be allowed to?)

The Hispanic kids get special treatment and consideration, which I can understand to a certain degree with the ones who are learning English, but many use it to their "advantage." I've seen them fight, behave badly, call each other names, backtalk the teachers in Spanish, refuse to do homework, etc. and the teachers are afraid to do anything about it because if you punish a Hispanic child, you're "racist." And the kids know it and won't hesitate to use it. I know a lot of it at that school is just wimpy terrible teachers (There's a new one this year, God bless her. She's fantastic. Really tough and teaches a lot and she's straight from Africa, so she turns their "that's racist" comments right back on them.) but it really is a sticky and widespread situation.

[colorful]

I hate to be negative, but when it comes to employees and non-white people saying and doing things that could be seen as racist, people don't tend to be willing to listen.

I've noticed this trend a lot in the media. For example, I was watching a Dr. Phil show awhile back where a black woman was saying she would never date a white man, and her sister was frustrated because she thought she was limiting herself un-necessarily. The woman basically came out and said, that nomater what the man was like, even if he was perfect in every other way, she simply wouldn't date him if he was white. So yes, she was judging him entirely based on the color of his skin.

What surprised me was that nobody on the show ever even brought up the word racism, or suggested that the woman was racist. Yes, some suggested that she was limiting herself. But they never called the racism for what it was. I couldn't help but wondering how differently the show would have been handled if a white woman said she could never date a black man.

[shagginabit]

huh?

[beforewisdom]

It's not like that in this case, I must say. I understand her rage, which sets me apart from another person who might complain about this.

HOWEVER, I see the futility and destructiveness of this. I am ambivalent.

You didn't cause her rage. It is not her place to direct it at you nor your place to take it. It is not her place to deal with it in her classroom. She is paid to teach, not work on her personal issues at her students.

[Kiz]

Exactly. And that goes for any personal problems she might have, not just racial ones.

[shagginabit]

Hell, call me insensitive, but what exactly is her "rage?" Somebody recently slash her tires or something? If not, she has personal issues, and teaching is definitely not the right profession for her.

[kristadb]

Completely OT - Kiz, is the blond permanent?

[Kiz]

Until it grows out. It takes a lot of peroxide to go from red to blonde.

[kristadb]

:lol: Just checking :D

I'm with Life - she needs prayers/positive thoughts.

[Tame]

Hell, call me insensitive, but what exactly is her "rage?" Somebody recently slash her tires or something? If not, she has personal issues, and teaching is definitely not the right profession for her.


I was wondering the same thing. *I'm* not in a rage, at least most of the time. And when I am, it ain't because of racial injustice, but usually because some sneaky bastage put an empty OJ container back in the fridge.

[Red]

I don't like ignorant bigots who think, in the 21st century, it's acceptable to refer to people as "colored" or "Negro."

I wonder if anyone has pointed this out to those ignorant bigots over at the NAACP?

[Merqutio]

"That said, I also don't appreciate my new Women's Studies prof, who is OBVIOUSLY an Afro-Am prof as well"

What do you mean, obviously? Are you saying her ethnicity is racially ambiguous?

"(the department I have been trying to get away from--long story, but basically, too much pain involved there)."

???

"This professor first asked everyone what their motivation was for being in the class, and proceeded to rip every white student who answered the question a new one, no matter what they said."

Can you give some examples? Since it's a woman's study class, I'm assuming that race wasn't an issue for any of the students in regards to why they may have taken the class. Did the professor bring up race when she was criticising the students?

"The manner in which she did it was extremely calculated."

How exactly did she say it?

"I am torn, again. I had an Afro-Am prof last year who was EXTREMELY despondent. I understand their anger, of course I do!"

Their anger? Care to elaborate?

"This is not to say I don't understand their anger. I KNOW why they behave this way."

Careful, there. We wouldn't want to stereotype all blacks as angry people who all behave in a certain way.

"used to do what they did, but I couldn't be a prisoner anymore."

What did you use to do?

"But the fact is that you cannot treat your students in this manner."

In what manner?

"I could not, would not do what this professor has done,"

Which was?

"because, in addition to making me angrier, it would accomplish NOTHING. It does not enlighten or educate people to attack them."

So basically you are saying the black teacher walked into class, asked everyone to introduce themselves, and angrily attacked every white students that spoke up?

"It frustrates me to no end that a woman at least six years (I'm guessing) older than myself has still not grasped this."

I'm not saying you are lying, but I think you are exaggerating a bit. It would be very stupid on the part of any professor, white or black, to openly make racist comments in their class. They may be a racist internally, but they aren't idiots.

However, if you truly believe you are being discriminated against, I believe you should go to your Dean. Go over her head. From the sounds of it, she is a new, young teacher that doesn't have tenure. A few complaints can make a difference.

[xrodolfox]

(waiting for the powderkeg to go off...)

[shagginabit]

I was wondering the same thing. *I'm* not in a rage, at least most of the time. And when I am, it ain't because of racial injustice, but usually because some sneaky bastage put an empty OJ container back in the fridge.


:lol: indeed.

[V422005]

Okay, so maybe I'm the only one who's angry, and maybe she just has problems.

Let me clarify. In the past (I am mixed, as is my prof) I have struggled with a great deal of anger over what has been done to black people in this country. I should not speak for others, but I saw something very familiar in what she was doing. It reminded me of what I would do. I even found myself agreeing with her, which frightened me. I thought I had left that part of myself behind, that anger that leads to nowhere. Yes, I bristle when I hear someone say, "blacks need to get over what happened to them." this anger lurks not far below my surface, and can return at any time.

On the other hand I understand that not everyone understands this anger, and find it unreasonable, and think we should just "get over it." While I am not agreeing with them, I want to find the people who truly want to be enlightened ...and, I don't know, dispel the fools.

My professor just seems angry, and it's an anger that will accomplish nothing unless it is hidden well or redirected.

I already find some assumptions that have been made...

[Vicky]

jeez you don't like a lot of people :)

[V422005]

But of course I like you, Vicky!

[eggplant]

I also feel I need to know more specifics in order to comment. How exactly does the prof express this anger? What exactly has she said to students that you consider innappropriate? If she's attacking students personally or creating a hostile environment in the classroom, that is a problem, regardless of her race or the race of the students. If she's simply expressing anger at social injustices, that could be fine, but I'd need to know more...

[catgirl67]

Unless she comes right out and says something that is racist, just let it go. And like AOD said, even if she does say something obviously racist, there probably won't be much done about it. Just let it go, and like Before Wisdom said, ask to be transferred to another class.

[Merqutio]

Okay, so maybe I'm the only one who's angry, and maybe she just has problems.

Let me clarify. In the past (I am mixed, as is my prof) I have struggled with a great deal of anger over what has been done to black people in this country. I should not speak for others, but I saw something very familiar in what she was doing. It reminded me of what I would do. I even found myself agreeing with her, which frightened me. I thought I had left that part of myself behind, that anger that leads to nowhere. Yes, I bristle when I hear someone say, "blacks need to get over what happened to them." this anger lurks not far below my surface, and can return at any time.

On the other hand I understand that not everyone understands this anger, and find it unreasonable, and think we should just "get over it." While I am not agreeing with them, I want to find the people who truly want to be enlightened ...and, I don't know, dispel the fools.

My professor just seems angry, and it's an anger that will accomplish nothing unless it is hidden well or redirected.

I already find some assumptions that have been made...

Ah, that makes a bit more sense. Well, in any case, if the prof makes you uncomfortable, just drop her class. On top of that, you can complain to the Dean. And try not to take things personally.

[beforewisdom]

Ah, that makes a bit more sense. Well, in any case, if the prof makes you uncomfortable, just drop her class. On top of that, you can complain to the Dean. And try not to take things personally.

And get your money and/or credits refunded. There is no reason why you should subsidize someone else's head trip.