Ditch the system

[Ludi]

The way the economy seems to be headed we're in for trouble. I'm getting connected with people all over who are interested in another way to live, that isn't dependent so much on corporations and jobs and has a new vision for society. I feel optimistic this is going to help us in the years ahead as we face problems with diminishing resources, climate change, etc.

Some links:

New Tribal Movement:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/tribe_of_blank/

http://www.ishmael.org/welcome.cfm

http://ishcon.org/index.php

Permaculture/self reliance:

http://www.permacultureactivist.net/

http://pathtofreedom.com/



:bobo:

[rvijay]

Ludi, if a big collapse of the system occurs will we still ahve the net ?

Thanks.

Vijay

[soilman]

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vegantribes/

[soilman]

rvijay writes "Ludi, if a big collapse of the system occurs will we still ahve the net?"

Persnally, I think probably not, because we will not have cheap, available, microcomputer hardware. If we did have any sort of worldwide net, it would be a very simply 8-bit text-only system, based on scrounged diodes and transistors rather than integrated circuits. Each computer would take up a whole room, and there would only be a few hundred of them across the world, belonging to a few engineers-mathemeticians who managed to create direct current energy cells out of minerals they mined themselves. The hookup would be by a few radio stations -- operated by former amateur radio operator.

[Ludi]

Thanks for that link soilman!


I like to hope the net might survive a change in society, it depends on how important it is and how the lines/satelites will be maintained. I don't see satellites being maintained in a sustainable society, too resource intensive.

[Coney]

I'm really into the idea of living with a community of people on a piece of land that is self sustained, or in a house that is eco friendly, growing our own food. Everyone pitches in and makes things to sell to pay the taxes on the land. Many groups all over the country have done this.

As for the internet, perhaps we'll have to go back to Morse code, or teletype...both of those worked very well for decades. If servers can operate, so can the internet. There may be a bit of a breakdown, but I imagine we'll still have it to some degree for the forseeable future.

There are many "free energy" ideas out there. There's this one
http://www.lutec.com.au/index.htm
It recharges itself and a battery will last 10 years. It is non-polluting.

[soilman]

Coney, the lutec appears to be a silly. There site says
the Lutec 1000 draws the power it requires to run itself from the same battery bank [that it charges]. This is a classic description of a physical impossibility - a perpetual motion machine.

Note that "you can't buy one yet." If you could -- they could get arrested.

[soilman]

I am also interested in living in proximity to other vegans. But i am very anti-animal husbandry, and want to avoid proximity to people who are into owning "pets," horses for transportation or work, or animals for any reason. I could make few exceptions: probably I don't see how I could deny a blind person a seeing-eye-dog if they feel they need one.

I do not care one way or another about "alternative living arrangements" such as poly-amorism. "All i care about is food." I love to eat. Grow food plants. Fix up mechanical devices.

[Ludi]

I've heard there are intentional communities who don't allow pet animals or (as far as I know) animal husbandry. Usually they will let new members keep their existing pets when they move in, but not replace the animals when they die. I'll see if I can find some info on these places, soilman. I think they would value you as an asset to their community. :)


Check out these folks:

http://www.earthaven.org/home/intro.htm


:vebo:

[ForestGlade34]

cool thread Ludi...... (reading as I speak).......

[luepkk]

Oh holy crap! I just started a thread under 'diggin in the dirt' (didn't know where else to put it) titled Utopia? because I want to live in a community that supports and encourages values like mine (vegatarian/vegan, environmental, respects all life styles, etc, etc.) and is into self-sufficiency, organic gardening and the like. Though I would want to live in a community that has pets and rescues farm animals (not for personal use though, just for companionship <which, I guess you could argue is a personal use>) I guess I shouldn't have been in such a hurry or so lazy - I should have looked around a bit first and I would have found there is already such a discussion going on. I am going to try to check out those links tonight. I'm excited to see I'm not the only one who wonders about these communities. :) Anyone ever live in such a community?

[ForestGlade34]

Hi Luepkk :hi: (loopick and Lu-Epic is the nearest I can be to making a word) :)

hope you don't mind, its just so I can get my head round your name, hehe.

[soilman]

I lived in one, for about 6 months, in 1970 or so. It was largely for retired people, but there were a few people under 60. I was around 22 at the time.

I have also visited a number of them around 1969 or so, in the North Eastern US, with someone from Finland, who was writing a master's thesis on them, or something. Maybe a doctoral thesis. I think it was in psychology. If I recall correctly, she was studying intentional communities that did "home-schooling" -- didn't send their young people, above 6 and below a certain age, to the public schools.

This is so long ago, I am having trouble remembering a lot of the details. They were not vegan. They often had companion animal around. I remember that most of them seemed very "hippie" and "counter-culture" to me. And we only spent a few days at each one, so I didn't really get to learn too much about them. The grad student spent time interviewing some of the people. I suppose she used focused-learning tactics to learn about each community. I just learned what I informally took in. I didn't attend all the interviews, though I may have attended some, and she never sent me a draft of her thesis. So it going to be difficult for me to comment on the communities, without spending a lot of effort jogging my memory.

I remember the community in Florida better. It was near-vegan (they used honey) and they grew organic citrus fruits of superb quality. I did manual labor there and got room and board and clothing and maybe $5 per week for personal supplies. It was a place where older people could live out their lives in pleasant surroundings with good "natural hygiene" diet and lots of sunshine. One had cancer and chose to die there, instead of in a hospital, and instead of getting what he believed, I think perhaps accurately, to be pointless medical treatment to prolong their lives but make their extra years miserable. I never actually saw him. He was bedridden. His wife cared for him. I saw his wife.

We were provided 3 meals per day by the kitchen people. I did not have an opportunity to prepare my own food. I could eat as many citrus fruits as I wanted to, between meals, but I simply was not getting enough calories and protein. I had trouble thriving on a strict natural hygiene diet. Fasting and natural hygiene diet was not making my headaches any better. I went down to about 100 pounds there. I was often depressed. I didn't feel I could have a happy future there. I decided to leave.

I longed to develop my own version of vegan diet, with my own kitchen. Which I did over the next 35 years, despite great difficulty affording the necessary full kitchen facilities.

[luepkk]

Good to know! Some of the communities seem a bit extreme to me - which doesn't mean I can't learn something from them. I will hopefully find a balance somewhere. My SO and I don't enjoy where we live now like we thought we would, and though we are in no hurry to move, we want to try and come up with a game plan for the future. And knowing where you would like to move to would help that plan a lot! :)
Oh, and VA-Goth-UK, my name is actually a combination of my last name and first name that I got stuck with in college from the college email system. There is no pronouncing it - heck there is no pronouncing my full last name (I've only found two people in my entire life who pronounced it correctly the first time - it's a VERY German name). By default I always use it because it's easy for me to remember when I log on. The closest you could probably get is "Lip-kay-kay" <-- Ha! Ha!

[Ludi]

Some of the communities seem a bit extreme to me

I guess my worldview is fairly "extreme" :D

But there are intentional communities of all kinds.

http://www.ic.org/

[catswym]

thank you for this.

this type of thing is something i am very interested in, tho right now i don't think i'm ready.

altho i desire strongly to not participate in this capitalist/ corporate culture it is also a very scary thing to think about stepping away.

[jenna rose]

yeah. it's almost 4am here so i'm not much of a thinker right now (haha) but this is defintely something i've been interested in for a while. it would be nice to have other people close by, as well, to help me learn more about this stuff, too.