techno. don't laugh.

[Funkified]

i've recently been introducted to good, high quality fanf'intastic techno...i love it. new order has always been a tiny bit on that side of things, and they've always been in my top five.
however, mind you, i'm the last person on this planet who you would find grinding at a rave or club. hell no. but the music is pretty damn good. anyone with me here? if not you should be.
i dont know enough about the whole thing to even act like i know what i'm talking about, but the two discs i've heard so far i'm a diggin.'

[BigWaxJesus]

What groups have you heard? There's a lot of great electronic music. It seems a lot of people are so stubborn about the idea of it, like, "Oh, there's no talent in that kind of music, I'm down with 'keeping it real with actual instruments.'" Good music is good music, no matter what you're using to make it.

[Max Power]

Heck no I would nevvvver laugh at you! No f-in way!

It depends on what/who you mean by techno. Much like "rock" is an umbrella category including music from The Beatles to Blink 182, "Techno" is not a single type of music. Rather, it's a subset of electronic music, and has its own subsets within itself.

Anywho, so who have you been listening to? I'm into electro-pop house like Ladytron, Telepopmusik, Miss Kitten & The Hacker, Ural 13, and so on. I also like progressive and housey break like Timo Maas, Bedrock, Dirty Vegas, and others blah blah blah...

[BigWaxJesus]

I'm still half & half on Ladytron. Some of their songs I really like but others I can't really get into. I think I'm going to go see them in Detroit. Maybe I'll appreciate them more after seeing them live.

[stonecrest]

i tried not to laugh heh. but seriously, more power to you if you find something that you enjoy. but i just need music with a little more feeling and intelligence rather than something that john doe can make on his computer. you know, intricate music that changes up tempo and has thoughtful lyrics and really hits your emotions, not repetitive, computer-fabricated beeps and bleeps that numb your mind. but that's just stubborn ol' me. if somehow you feel passionate about the music and it can really touch you, no matter how much i'm in disbelief that this can happen to people, then i'd say embrace it.

[BigWaxJesus]

Originally posted by stonecrest
i tried not to laugh heh. but seriously, more power to you if you find something that you enjoy. but i just need music with a little more feeling and intelligence rather than something that john doe can make on his computer. you know, intricate music that changes up tempo and has thoughtful lyrics and really hits your emotions, not repetitive, computer-fabricated beeps and bleeps that numb your mind. but that's just stubborn ol' me. if somehow you feel passionate about the music and it can really touch you, no matter how much i'm in disbelief that this can happen to people, then i'd say embrace it.

My guess is that you've had limited exposure to electronic music, from your description of what you think it is. While there is some truth to the idea that anyone can make this form of music, not everyone has the ability to do it good, and that's usually how you end up with a bunch of **** with the qualities you described. But, on the other side of the spectrum you have artists that make intelligent, complex, and beautiful music that is much more than "John Doe on his computer." Some are even mixing electronic with convential instruments with very interesting results. And while the computer does play a large role in some electronic music, this genre existed in some form way before computers were even being mass-produced, so that's definitely not the only means of making it. I realize people have their particular tastes in music, but I suggest you give it another chance because electronic is certainly more than what you think it is, and you just may be surprised by some of it. I could even steer you towards some good artists to check out, if you want.

[Max Power]

Originally posted by Funkified
the two a friend gave me are : sasha and john digweed, northern exposure
Sasha and Digweed are massive. Good stuff.

All musics have their tops and bottoms. Rock is hardly lacking in brainless, inept, talentless "rockstars" and much of even the good rock is simple and musically mediocre. Almost all the bands that have surfaced in the last 2 years that are named "The _______s" are medicore musicians, at best.

I'm going to assume you (Stonecrest) are not familiar with Autechre, or Aphex Twin, so describing the supreme complexity of their tracks would be fruitless. You probably haven't spent much time with Reason, a fabulous musician's tool, that (speaking from experience) can be used to expand the creativity of the artist as much an any "traditional" instrument ever made.

True, there are many ways one can make simple, and often stupid, electronic music. But all I need is three chords to recreate some of rock's greatest and lamest tracks.

[BigWaxJesus]

Originally posted by Max Power
Rock is hardly lacking in brainless, inept, talentless "rockstars" and much of even the good rock is simple and musically mediocre.

Isn't that the truth. One listen to commercial radio proves that.

[Robert]

FWIW, I am also quite stubborn when it comes to defining what I'll listen to... I admittedly give little time or patience to anything not produced by living musicians actually playing an instrument. I'm much more apt to give a CD a try if I know the band plays their own musical instruments and writes and performs their own material. Heck, I won't even listen to stuff if it uses a keyboardm, let alone produced on a computer. Keyboards have no business being included in a rock band.

Ironically, Van Halen achieved their greatest commercial success when they brought in Hagar and Eddie popped in some keyboards, but the music lacked any real quality compared to what they were doing earlier on with Roth.

Lead, rythmn, bass guitars, a set of drums and perhaps a sax. Learn a few chords, perhaps a little 12 bar blues and its stuff I enjoy :)

Having said that, I KNOW I have a closed mind in this regard. If you enjoy it Funk, that's all that matters really.

I just realized, I have turned into my parents

[stonecrest]

i can't say who specifically i have been exposed to, but my freshman year roommate was a big fan of electronic sounds. he spent a lot of money on finding the music he listened to, rarer cds, and programs that you can use to make it (i forget which program but it was in excess of $1,000). if you'd like, i can ask him which artists he used to listen to.

i don't think it's either stubborn or close-minded to have listened to music and not enjoy it. nor do i think it's stubborn to have high standards and expectations for music and find some music below this level.

i just don't believe that the emotion in electronic music can ever reach the kind of emotion that music played by actual instruments can, that's what it boils down to. if you like it, great, enjoy it. and i'll enjoy my music :D

[ladyturtle1978]

lets see i have been into electronic music for about 8 years or so. and i wouldnt laugh at ya. if you want some good music advice let me know!!

:):):):):)

[kirkjobsluder]

Originally posted by stonecrest
i just don't believe that the emotion in electronic music can ever reach the kind of emotion that music played by actual instruments can, that's what it boils down to. if you like it, great, enjoy it. and i'll enjoy my music :D

They said the same thing about electric guitar and organ once upon a time, and look at what john hooker and ray charles did with them. heck, the snobs don't consider harmonica a "real insturment" either.

[stonecrest]

Originally posted by kirkjobsluder
They said the same thing about electric guitar and organ once upon a time, and look at what john hooker and ray charles did with them. heck, the snobs don't consider harmonica a "real insturment" either.

"they", am i one of "them" now? and what is that supposed to mean anyway, that i'm not allowed to like electronic music because there are people that didn't (and don't) like the electric guitar?

"the snobs".. such a beautifully delicate description..

[kirkjobsluder]

Originally posted by stonecrest
"they", am i one of "them" now? and what is that supposed to mean anyway, that i'm not allowed to like electronic music because there are people that didn't (and don't) like the electric guitar?

"the snobs".. such a beautifully delicate description..

you might be a snob if the insturments you like to listen to are "real" and what you don't like to listen to is not real.

but the problem is not that you just leave it at "I don't like it." I can't stand the sound of bell choirs myself but I recognize that no small ammount of tallent goes into making and performing bell choir music. The emotion is not in the insturment, but in the peformer.

[HappyDaisy]

There is definitely an art to producing great electronica. Not just ANYONE can mix and be a great DJ, just like not just anyone can sing or play guitar. Electronica is its own art form.

I like Paul Oakenfold, Timo Maas, Sasha and Digweed, and I have an awesome CD called Hallucinogenic. It's probably my favorite CD of that genre.

[stonecrest]

Originally posted by kirkjobsluder
The emotion is not in the insturment, but in the peformer.

that's a pretty absolute statement - i'd have to say that the emotion derives from both. for instance, if an instrument can only play one specific note and nothing else, while something like a guitar can play a broad range of notes, i'd say that a good performer of both could invoke much more emotion in the guitar. in much the same way, a good singer can produce more emotion than said guitar.

is a synthesizer as emotionally stimulating to you as a violin? how about a midi versus a piano? how about a voice synthesizer versus an actual voice? you're welcome to disagree but the instruments certainly matter to me.

[kirkjobsluder]

Originally posted by stonecrest
that's a pretty absolute statement - i'd have to say that the emotion derives from both. for instance, if an instrument can only play one specific note and nothing else, while something like a guitar can play a broad range of notes, i'd say that a good performer of both could invoke much more emotion in the guitar. in much the same way, a good singer can produce more emotion than said guitar.

I disagree, one of Melissa Etherigde's best concert songs has her turn the 12 string over and playing the back as a drum. A good precussionist can do more with 3 notes than most amateur guitar players can do with several octaves.


is a synthesizer as emotionally stimulating to you as a violin? how about a midi versus a piano? how about a voice synthesizer versus an actual voice? you're welcome to disagree but the instruments certainly matter to me.

Again, it entirely depends on the performer. Philip Glass's keyboard soundtrack to The Truman Show certanly beats my track record as a violist. Midi of course is not an actual insturment but an interface standard that permits users of a wide variety of insturments to record digitally. But I'll point out that Ray Charles and Stevie Wonder performed miracles on organs with much less dynamic range than the modern sythesizer.

[BigWaxJesus]

Originally posted by Robert
Keyboards have no business being included in a rock band.

Why is that any different than a piano? They both take physical skill to play.



Originally posted by stonecrest
is a synthesizer as emotionally stimulating to you as a violin? how about a midi versus a piano? how about a voice synthesizer versus an actual voice? you're welcome to disagree but the instruments certainly matter to me.

It all depends on how you use each one of those things. Someone could use those electronic instruments and make one of the most beautiful songs ever, if they have the skill. And someone could use those conventional instruments and make something awful. I love instrument-based music as much as anyone else, but I'm just pointing out that an electronic song can be as complex, emotionally-stimulating, and organic as any conventional song. I think it's silly to shut yourself off to a certain style just because you heard the ****tier side of it. You never know, you could be missing out on something you'd really enjoy.

[Robert]

BWJ: it's merely my opinion, but I think a keyboard is a computerized wannabe of a piano. A piano has a nice, rich sound. A keyboard just does not have that "warmth" or "richness" to its sound. Its synthetic.

And, to my point, I just don't think rock music includes it. Once a keyboard is included, it leaves "rock" and becomes more of a "pop" nature.

[stonecrest]

when i was comparing instruments, i was assuming that we were talking about good performers at their respective instruments. you don't have to tell me that the best electronic music artists could produce more emotional music than i could with any musical instrument (because i can't play any), that's fairly obvious. the point i was making is that, if you take two artists with similar levels of talent at their art form, and compare them, the levels of emotion that they produce could be different because of the actual differences in instrument. thus, this refutes the statement that all emotion is in the performer.

but anyway, that's enough out of me, i think the point's dead.

[kirkjobsluder]

Originally posted by Robert
BWJ: it's merely my opinion, but I think a keyboard is a computerized wannabe of a piano. A piano has a nice, rich sound. A keyboard just does not have that "warmth" or "richness" to its sound. Its synthetic.


Oh dear, by keyboard do you mean electronic sythesizer with a keyboard attachment (which very few early electronic sythesizers had) or do you mean a set of ebony and ivory keys layed out in a row. Some would argue that a piano is just a crass harpsicord wannabe, or a lame pipe organ wannabe. At any rate there are many keyboard insturments including harpsicord, accordian, and organ.

But isn't this missing what the roots of rock music are about as a democratic music form? Many rock and blues greats used electric piano and organ because good pianos are expensive to buy and go out of tune as soon as you nudge them.


And, to my point, I just don't think rock music includes it. Once a keyboard is included, it leaves "rock" and becomes more of a "pop" nature.

Which of course why just about everyone from Bowe to Zappa have comosed for elecronic insturment. Space Oddity is not a pop song.

[kirkjobsluder]

Originally posted by stonecrest
when i was comparing instruments, i was assuming that we were talking about good performers at their respective instruments. you don't have to tell me that the best electronic music artists could produce more emotional music than i could with any musical instrument (because i can't play any), that's fairly obvious. the point i was making is that, if you take two artists with similar levels of talent at their art form, and compare them, the levels of emotion that they produce could be different because of the actual differences in instrument. thus, this refutes the statement that all emotion is in the performer.

but anyway, that's enough out of me, i think the point's dead.

You keep saying that but it does not make it true the more you say it. Is Zydeco less emotional than hard rock because of the dominant use of the push-button accordian with a limited tonal range? Or even within a genre, is a Little Walter four-note harmonica riff less emotional than John Hooker's guitar work? In fact, some of the greatest Blues harmonica riffs express an entire story with only two notes.

Is the Kronos quartet less emotional than than the London Philharmonic? Why is it that one of the best rock bands in the country, the White Stripes can do more with guitar and drum in one song than the Stones have done in the last two decades? After all, more insturments and more notes should make the music better.

[Max Power]

Originally posted by Funkified
anyone have any more recomendations for me? i can't download music but i may throw some money down for a few cd's soon.
Sasha "Airdrawndagger"
Felix Da Housecatt "Kittenz and Thee Glitz"
Timo Maas "Loud"

Hrrm... this gives me an idea...

[BigWaxJesus]

Recommendations:

Amon Tobin - Anything off his Bricolage album is great, though, all his albums are very good. Very jazz influenced drum & bass.

Telefon Tel Aviv - Fahrenheit Fair Enough: Top songs off this album are the title track and "TTV".

Squarepusher - Feed Me Weird Things, Music is Rotted One Note, or Budakhan Mindphone: Tom Jenkinson has been all over the electronic map, usually changing styles on every release he puts out. His style ranges from totally insane drum & bass to ambient to electro-jazz fusion. Some good songs: "Iambic 5 Poetry," "Splask," "Squarepusher Theme," "Tundra," "My Sound," "Plaistow Flex Out"

Aphex Twin - "Digeridoo" and "Bucephalus Bouncing Ball"

Lamb - This is on the vocal side of electronic--female singer, very nice voice. Check out: "Lusty," "Zero," "Gold," "Heaven," & "Gabriel"


Sorry if I over did the suggested songs, there's just a lot of cool stuff to check out.

[MsRuthieB]

Though not electronica, I like some music with keyboards like Styx, Doobie Bros, Genesis, ... I could go on. My most fav 'not an oldie' band that uses keyboards is Dream Theater. What a group of musicians!