Please Read - This Should Be Important To Everyone

[Michael]

All of this is open to your questions, comments, and suggestions. You can either post here or PM me.

Just wanted to make you all aware of an issue that surfaced tonight - apparently our bandwidth has gone up 500-1000% since November. Once again I need to look at ways to
reduce and/or recover some of the costs associated with this site. I have a sweet deal with our host and we're still in a range that I feel comfortable paying. But... I would love to add new features (such as a recipe database) and doing that would probably put us dangerously close to being more than I want to pay. Therefore, I will once again be asking for your help. I'm working on a plan that is fair and should allow us to expand and grow. Participation is voluntary but much appreciated. As I said, I feel this plan will be very fair.

Most webmasters would not do this but I'm just going to put it out there so you have an idea of what I'm looking at. At a bare minimum, assuming we do not grow and/or expand I'm looking at $360 per year for hosting. The addition of a recipe database would increase that even further (and most of that traffic would come from unregistered guests - people who contribute nada - but it would still be a great resource). Then you have to take into account the other costs associated with this site: $15 per year for the domain name, $30 to renew our vBulletin license (so that I can download the new version once it's available), $50 to purchase the software for the recipe database, etc. And that's just what's coming up, doesn't include what I've already paid.

I do not want the growth/expansion of VB to be a concern. It should not be a bad thing to grow and expand. I don't want it to come to a point where I have to restrict or remove optional items such as private messages, avatars, the photo gallery, resource directory, etc. And ads don't pay diddly so they aren't even an option.

In the next few months we will be upgrading to the newest version of vBulletin. It will allow us to significantly expand our Contributing Members program (something I'm really excited about). I'm going to research it now and will post more details within the next few days. I know this sounds like a lot but the solution is something we should all be able to live with, and I believe it is. More to come...

[Robert]

Michael, so what exactly are you looking for? Contributions?

Drop me a PM with your PO Box / Mailing address.

[Michael]

Contributions are always nice and appreciated. :) But what I have in mind is more of a monthly donation set up through PayPal, very low and over the course of a year amounts to between $12 and $24. Once I announce the details of the Contributing Members program I hope you'll all see it's worth chipping in. For those that don't use PayPal and/or have a credit card the option to subscribe through mail will be available as well.

However, if you'd like to send something in the meantime I'll PM you the address.

Also worth mentioning that I will be tweaking things once the new software becomes available. Avatars, private messages, viewing attachments, and additional features (like the resource directory, photo gallery, and recipe database) all use significant amounts of bandwidth. More than likely these features will be limited to Contributing Members once the new software is installed. Private messaging will still be available to free users but Contributing Members will be allowed more storage. Contributing Members will also browse the board ad-free and will probably have access to an exclusive forum. I honestly feel that all of these features in addition to the board itself should be worth $1.00 - $2.00 per month to most of us. Also worth mentioning again that this program is optional but my focus right now has to be on ensuring the long-term success of this site. I may also consider removing the "subscribe to thread" features and the calendar. I'm not sure too many people use these anyway.

Regardless of what amount I ultimately decide on, anyone who has already contributed will be in at a rate of $1 per month. Meaning if you've contributed $20 you'll be set as a contributing member for 20 months.

[stonecrest]

perhaps you might want to look into selling VB t-shirts or something like that, maybe a little fund-raising activity each year. my site is actually selling t-shirts right now, and will be for the next week. we've already gotten over 50 people to order shirts and i expect to easily pass 100. granted it's not primarily a msg board so it's a little different but your hosting costs are less than mine as well. that would certainly help defray your costs i imagine.

as another option.. i run my website on a dedicated server. i don't know how much interest you'd have in it but if you wanted to PM me info like how much bandwidth you'd need per month and what you'd need on it, maybe i could work something out with you that would be in your price range. it seems like the least i can do to help out a site that i frequent and enjoy so much :)

[Michael]

I have a store set up through CafePress but their prices are a bit steep to begin with so I only make a buck on anything sold through them (and therefore have to sell 25 items before they'll even cut me a check). The problem with ordering items elsewhere (which would be much cheaper) is that I run the risk of being stuck with them when they don't sell.

Thanks for the hosting offer. The guy hosting the site now has been very generous with both his time and resources and he's always willing to help when it comes to installing/configuring software - things that really aren't his responsibility. And as you've mentioned he's charging less than the going rate for bandwidth - he's certainly not hosting this site to make money, just wants to recover some of the cost which is completely understandable. Long story short, switching hosts is the furthest thing from my mind right now. Anything cheaper and the performance of this site would suffer greatly. Trust me when I say that the setup we have now is top-notch.

[kirkjobsluder]

Have you looked into some of the free recipie database programs on sourceforge.net? http://phprecipebook.sourceforge.net/

[LadyFaile]

so the 1 or 2 bucks will be come out monthly instead of a one time $12 or $24 payment? i'd be more than willing to do that, i'm sure i can manage a buck right now.

but..
be careful, a chat site i used to visit alot just became a paid membership site. nonpaying guests can still use the chat but only on a short term guest membership and have limited access. well i wasn't informed of the switchover and had to reregister last night with a guest pass, and i didn't see very many familiar people there. looks like the majority of the regular users stopped going, likely cause they felt cheated for being there for years and suddenly being forced to pay to have the same priviledges they already had up to that point.
i mean, giving nonpaying members limited access could create some problems for you.

otherwise it does sound like a good plan. just one or two questions.
will non-US members be able to pay in their own currency or will we have to pay in US funds, thereby paying in more than the other members. also will we be given the option of paying the 12 or 24 up front rather than monthly? i think that might make it easier for those who don't have credit cards or paypal, rather than mailing a cheque every month



ETA: if you decide to try out a fundraising activity instead, let me know and i'll be more than willing to help out with the brainstorming and organizing. bout time i put my marketing skills to good use ;)

[Michael]

Well all of this is still in the planning stages and some of it depends on the new software (which is not yet available). It's somehow tied into PayPal so that it will automate subscriptions. But basically what I had in mind is PayPal's subscription feature which deducts a monthly fee, as I said it will be somewhere between $1 and $2. I figured that would be pretty easy on everyone. If at all possible I'll set up semi-annual and annual subscriptions also so that if you choose to you can pay it all at once. If you want to send a check or money order that's fine and it would be best to pay for 6 months or a year at a time.

Non-paying members will still be able to post and send private messages as they do now. And I don't know of an easy way to password protect things like the photo gallery and recipe database so those will stay available to everyone. Basically paying members would get a custom avatar (I may set default avatars that non-paying members can choose from, not sure on that one yet), increased PM capacity, and perhaps the ability to view attachments. All things that take up a fairly significant chunk of bandwidth - so if you use those things you can chip in a little and if you don't and choose not to that's fine too.

kirk - I'll take a look over there, I found one I really like on http://www.hotscripts.com - it's specifically for recipes which is nice because all of the formatting is set up for people to submit their own recipes, I won't have to go in and format it myself. The one I have picked out is pretty nice and I don't mind paying for the software - it's more the hosting costs that I'd like to keep under control.

[Skylark]

I for one wouldn't mind paying the $12-$24 you suggest. If it goes more than $30 a year, I might start to reconsider, but I think I can afford to pay a little for my VB addiction.

Would the login be the same? I'd hate to find out later that paying membership is restricted to one IP address only. Then I'd have to choose which computer I wanted to be a member from... unfun, since I use my home computer and a lot of different computers in computer labs at school.

[Skylark]

Oh, and I do use the subscriptions. The threads in the Veggie Patch I may as well take off my subscriptions since I am in there all the time and can easily see whether someone's posted something new, but I don't as often go into some of the other forums, and it's nice to be quickly notified when someone has posted to a long-dead topic I liked.

[Michael]

Yeah, everything will be the same. For sure it won't be over $2 a month. I'm not trying to make money, just get a little to help.

[Skylark]

I know, Michael. :) Since we all gain from being active here, you shouldn't have to pay all the big bucks to keep it running.

[1vegan]

Some boards use external links for avatars.
This could save some data-transfer.

[Michael]

Yeah, I've thought about that, only problem is if the website hosting them is slow then it may slow down the pages and if it can't reach the website we'll get broken images and timeouts. I don't know how much of an issue this is on other boards. Also, I don't really want people linking to avatars that aren't hosted by them.

Also wanted to add... If you have already made a contribution or you make a contribution before this all takes place, you will be credited with 1 month per dollar. So if for instance you have contributed $20 that would make you a contributing member for 20 months. Of course all of this is subject to change at this point.

[Michael]

And just to give you a little more perspective I've attached a chart that shows our bandwidth usage over the last year. The bar on the far right is our bandwidth (so far) for January...

[Skylark]

What do the other columns represent, Michael? Are they months? You didn't list what units you're using on the X and Y axises (sp), so I'm not sure quite how to read that chart.

[Max Power]

Originally posted by Michael
And just to give you a little more perspective I've attached a chart that shows our bandwidth usage over the last year. The bar on the far right is our bandwidth (so far) for January...
YOWZA!!!

[Robert]

Skylark, I recognize the chart he is using :)

It's from a server stats analysis software the lets the owner know what kind of traffic his or her site is doing.

Thus, I can tell you that each red bar represents one month, with the current month being the biggest red bar on the right.

The vertical axis represents Kilobytes transferred (bandwidth, i.e. data transfer used). So, from the looks of that graphic, one can determine that his bandwidth has tripled since November and the month is not even over yet.

[luckiecharms]

I hope the Veggieboards dont have to shut down because of the cost. :cry:

[Robert]

Luckiecharms, no, I doubt it. Michael I think is just seeing if some folks, who are in a position to, wouldn't mind helping him to cover actual operating costs and to keep the thing advertising free.

[luckiecharms]

Yeah. I know. I just remeber the last board I posted at had to shut down because of the cost. But hope everything goes okay.

[Michael]

It should be fine. Luckily I have a decent job and am able to pay for it. But things come up - I may get busy at work or school, may have unexpected bills, etc. and I don't want VB to be the first thing to come to mind when it comes to simplifying my life. If the members are helping to support VB then it's more of a feeling of it being "ours" and not "mine" - we share in the responsibility and the reward.

But to address your concern, the chances of VB shutting down due to cost issues any time soon are relatively slim. And if it ever comes to that I'll let everyone know - either give everyone a chance to help out or to let someone else take ownership of it. It won't just disappear.

You'll see more forums and sites switching to a subscription format, it's just the way things are headed.

[luckiecharms]

I found this site online where all you do is fill out surveys and you win money. My friend won 12 dollars for filling out a survey and im joining too. http://www.acop.com/ maybe this will help the veggieboards.

[Skylark]

Michael,
You mentioned the numerous lurkers and no-posters. I don't know if revoking unused memberships would help with the bandwidth, but perhaps if a particular user name isn't active for, say, 3 months, you think about taking it off. I don't know if you can track who visits at all, and I'm not suggesting this for regular members who go out of the country for a time like Beautiful Vegan, but maybe for people who have never contributed anything.

[Michael]

Maybe Robert can chime in on this one but I think that only effects the size of the database and not bandwidth. Bandwidth is basically the amount of data transferred from the server that hosts the site to your computer so that you can see each page. Therefore, I don't think deleting people who don't visit would have any impact.