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View Full Version : Flag burning
luckiecharms
12-31-02, 05:18 PM
Should flag burning be against the law?
luckiecharms
12-31-02, 06:34 PM
i think that it should be. Love your country or leave it. i thnk there are other ways to protest against the government besides destroying the flag. like going on a strike or making a speech.
Verbivore
12-31-02, 06:36 PM
A flag is a cloth symbol. It's not a living being.
soilman
12-31-02, 07:11 PM
Making flag-burning, per se, illegal, goes against the United States' constitutional principal of freedom of speech. Of course any laws that apply to burning anything in public places, intended to protect the air from pollutants, should apply to flags as well as to anything else. Thus if the law says no burning of cotton or wood, and your flag is made of cotton -- burning that cotton flag would be illegal. If the law says no burning of plastic resins, and your flag is polyester -- you get the idea.
I don't believe in government protection of particular "sacred" symbols either. This goes against the principle of freedom of religion.
Just because i choose to burn the US flag does not mean i do not love this country, i may just not like flags. But whether or not i choose to burn a flag, unless as soilman stated pollution is a factor, should not concern the government.
kpickell
01-01-03, 01:43 AM
yeah, and we shouldn't be allowed to burn the confederate flag either because it's a symbol of american history. If you don't like our history then don't become a part of it -- go to cuba. In fact, it should be mandatory to fly the US flag and the confederate flag on every house.
Not seriously.
LadyFaile
01-01-03, 03:24 PM
i never really saw the big deal with flags. people treat them like they're really fragile or something. ooh don't let it drag on the ground, ooh don't carry it THAT way, etc. and yet some people use them as curtains.
i always thought it was illegal to burn them though, not that i agree with that, but i just thought it was. it is illegal to hang them upside down though right? that doesn't make sense. you can destroy it if you want but you can't hang it upside down.
Freedom of speech is meaningless if it only protects speech we agree with. That is a no brainer. Making flag buring against the law would be the ultimate irony and more of a slap in the face to people who have died to protect our freedoms than burning a flag is. This is our constitution, love it or leave it. (or amend it through the methods described through the constitutio, which I seriously hope we never do to protect flags. What a waste of time and money)
This issue always comes up around the 4th of July. It is a typical red herring used by politicians to get a lot of attention and distract people from more important issues that are probably not being addressed by said politicians.
LC- you have a lot of controversial topics you like to bring up. One right after the other. Trying to tire us out?
Michael
01-01-03, 05:23 PM
How is it with the Canadian flag? Same as it is here?
I dont think any American(US) would mind burning the Canadian flag :D
Flag burning makes me sick, but I don't think it should be illegal. It's freedom of expression and I don't have to agree with what is being expressed to think that someone has the right to express it.
Peace,
Maggie
Skylark
01-01-03, 09:55 PM
What's with the whole "Accept the way things are or leave" bit? I thought the freedom of speech idea was to let everyone have their voice, not to tell them that they have to either put up or shut up.
What I find really ironic is that in those official flag ordinences, there are technically two acceptable ways to dispose of an old, worn out flag. One is to bury it, and the other is to burn it. Why is one kind of flag burning considered offensive, but the other is a respectful way to dispose of it?
Verbivore
01-02-03, 04:35 AM
Originally posted by LadyFaile
i never really saw the big deal with flags. people treat them like they're really fragile or something. ooh don't let it drag on the ground, ooh don't carry it THAT way, etc. and yet some people use them as curtains.
i always thought it was illegal to burn them though, not that i agree with that, but i just thought it was. it is illegal to hang them upside down though right? that doesn't make sense. you can destroy it if you want but you can't hang it upside down.
Yeah, I never understood treating the flag like it's going to be hurt if you don't. I guess ceremonial stuff makes people feel better. Burning a flag is also a symbolic action and probably not the most productive way to change society, but symbols send a message.
MsRuthieB
01-02-03, 07:36 AM
I believe that the flag is a symbol of our country and representative of it's people. By treating it with respect and honor, I feel that in some way you are treating our country the same. But, on the other hand, when you burn the flag you are showing great dishonor and disrespect to the country and the people. If it was just a piece of cloth, most wouldn't care. But it's not simply an object like a hairbrush or a spoon. There are very real emotion connected to it for the majority of people, IMO that's where the conflict of burning it comes in.
I personally don't like to see it and it very much bothers me when I do, but I believe that other people have the right to do it if that's what they get off on. I'll not stop them unless it infringes on my rights somehow.
luckiecharms
01-02-03, 10:00 AM
I'm pretty sure that flag burning in the USA is against the law. But what i think is there are other ways to protest agaisnt the government. i dont see why if you hate the country so much you cant just leave. I used to think that it was stupid how everyone said dont let the flag touch the ground and everything but it is more then a cloth it represents our accomplishments as a nation and a lot of things.
MsRuthieB
01-02-03, 10:10 AM
Actually, flag burning is legal and protected by The Constitution.
kirkjobsluder
01-02-03, 01:04 PM
Originally posted by luckiecharms
I'm pretty sure that flag burning in the USA is against the law. But what i think is there are other ways to protest agaisnt the government. i dont see why if you hate the country so much you cant just leave. I used to think that it was stupid how everyone said dont let the flag touch the ground and everything but it is more then a cloth it represents our accomplishments as a nation and a lot of things.
Ohh, this is one of those ideas that really burns my briches. One of the big myths that the conservative movement has managed to develop over the last few decades is that of the America-Hating left. In fact, most of us on the left are very patriotic and true to the ideals of America as a pluralistic democracy expressed by founding fathers such as Jefferson and Madison. Most of the people who protest do not do so because they hate America, they do it because they hate seeing the American dream defiled by our government.
luckiecharms
01-02-03, 02:04 PM
oh i had thought it was illegal but i wasnt sure.
Kirk- Yeah i know I wasnt saying that people that protest hate America. Burning the flag isnt acceptable when there are other ways you can protest. If you want to see something change then you should do it in a different way. martin Luther king never burned the american flag he made a speech and his opinions were heard. :)
kirkjobsluder
01-02-03, 06:35 PM
Originally posted by luckiecharms
oh i had thought it was illegal but i wasnt sure.
Kirk- Yeah i know I wasnt saying that people that protest hate America. Burning the flag isnt acceptable when there are other ways you can protest. If you want to see something change then you should do it in a different way. martin Luther king never burned the american flag he made a speech and his opinions were heard. :)
I agree that flag burning is not the best form of protest. However, I am much more worried about people who would undermine the foundations of democracy by banning flag burning.
The flag burning debate reminds me that Abbie Hoffman was arrested (and convicted?) for wearing a shirt made out of an American flag in 1968. If they could only see all of the American flag stuff we have now.
mushroom
01-02-03, 07:55 PM
luckiecharms wrote, "i dont see why if you hate the country so much you cant just leave."
"Because then I would be subject to America's foreign policy"
I have never seen or heard of anyone burning a Uk flag or an English one. I can't imagine there'd be any publicity if they did. Brits aren't so touchy about their patriotism. It's deep in the blood I suppose, so jokes or insults mean nothing until/unless war breaks out. Which I suppose it's going to any week now.
LadyFaile
01-04-03, 05:55 PM
yep now you see women wearing stars and stripes bikinis, men wearing flag print boxers. if they didn't like that woman's tshirt back them imagine how they'd feel today about people using it to cover their 'bits'
Brake4Squirrels
01-05-03, 01:44 PM
one of the advantages of living in a "free" country is being able to choose to be patriotic or not. Any country that would expect, practically require, all of its citizens to love the damn place, would be called a totalitarian state/dictatorship.
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