Hi, I was just wondering what everyone here thinks about muzzles for dogs? My parents are thinking about getting a muzzle for their dog who is not at all aggressive. I think it is inhumane for a dog to have to wear something like this if it is not necassary. My parents don't like the barking, which he hardly ever does at all, I say if you don't want barking, don't get a dog. A dog needs a way to express themselves, a muzzle is just plain inhumane.
How can I convince them of this?

Well, I think that muzzles are sometimes necessary for restraint in veterinary procedures, but only when the dog is particularily aggressive. Usually they aren't needed.

I do think it's cruel if your parents are planning to use the muzzle on a regular basis. It will cause undue emotional stress, plus it has potential health risks too. Depending on the breed of dog, a muzzle can actually hinder their breathing, for example in bulldogs. Some muzzles prevent the dog from being able to drink and eat, and even pant (which would lead to over heating). There are a lot of different types of muzzles. If your parents are going to do this, make sure that they get one that is suitable for the breed of dog, and that allows him/her to eat, drink and pant.

I don't really know what to say to help convince your parents, if they are truly set on this. There are plenty of internet resources that deal with how to stop a dog from barking, through behaviour modification techniques, but of course, this would take time and patience. I completely agree with you, if they don't like barking, why on earth did they get a dog?

You could try strapping a muzzle on them and asking them how they feel? If you do that, make sure it's on tight so the irony of them not being able to tell you how they feel is not lost.

I don't really recommend you do that at all.

All I can think of is respectfully reminding them that dogs bark, naturally, and that an unnatural muzzle is going to make the dog unhappy and that only leads to the dog barking more and that leads to more muzzling until the dog lives in a muzzle and grows sore around its snout and could likely be such a nuscience whenever it IS out of the muzzle that the dog really will have become a pain to live with and even a muzzle won't change things then.

Good luck to you.

I could see using one if a dog has been biting and it needs to be in a situation where it might hurt someone. But for barking? No. A dog that barks excessively may have emotional problems, or just is naturally that way. Either way, there are non violent/cruel ways to train a dog to bark less (maybe not not at all, but at least less.)

Is this dog a pure bred or a mutt? Is it perhaps trying to get attention?

There are a lot of dog training books out there that don't rely on shocking or hurting your dog. You could try your library first.

I don't think I have to say this here, but barking is a way of communicating for a dog. Dogs bark for a reason..maybe it's cold outside, or a bird flew over the yard, or the dogs lonely and wanting attention. Whatever the case is, it's totally natural. And if it's not excessive whats the problem. Do your parents live in up-tight suburbia??? Worried about what the Jones's next door will think if the dog makes a little noise? I say screw the neighbors and let'em get a life!

I certainly think they're inhumane. What frustrates me most is that people are capable of understanding what is happening to them and animals aren't. For example, someone imprisoned, justly or not, is at least capable of understanding their situation. An animal in a shelter has no idea why they're in a cage or if they'll ever get out. I don't think people stop and think about just how difficult that must be.

And I'm curious, if the dog is muzzled so much that it can't bark how is it supposed to eat or drink?

I did a search and here are a few sites that turned up. I haven't read through them but they look like they might be helpful.

Results of a search for "why dogs bark" on Google:
http://www.nomorebarking.com/new/pages/whydogsbark.html
http://www.crazyfordogs.com/fow/fow4.shtml
http://www.kerryblues.org/KB/WHYBARK.HTML

Results of a search for "stop dog from barking" on Google:
http://www.perfectpaws.com/bark.html
http://www.mauigateway.com/~rw/pets/barking01.html
http://www.purina.com/dogs/behavior.asp?article=40
http://www.spotfree.net/traindog.html
http://www.wonderpuppy.net/canwehelp/noise.htm (bunch of links to other sites)
http://www.nonoise.org/library/dogs/dog.htm

All of the "stop dog from barking" sites look like they have a lot of useful information. It'll take some work on your parents' part but hopefully they'll be open to alternatives.

Thanks for all the comments and suggestions!
Micheal, thanks for all those links, I haven't checked them out yet but I definitly plan to.
I have talked to my parents and they are saying that their decision to get a muzzle is not definite yet and I hope I can make them reconsider! I can not believe they are even considering getting one though, I just never knew they were like that. Muzzles definitly come in handy with very aggressive dogs but this little guy (yeah, the one in the photo album) is very calm and not at all aggressive.
My parents live in the country and have one close neighbor, when he goes outside he does bark at the neighbors dog but he usually stops when someone tells him "No". Their reasons for getting this muzzle are clearly inhumane ones.
I really hope I can talk them out of it!
Once again, thanks for all the replies :)

Another thought... Call their vet and see what he or she thinks about it. If they agree that it's inhumane or somehow unsafe then casually suggest maybe your parents should call and get his input. :)

That's sad.

But there are worse alternatives.
Like the people who use shock collars to stop their dogs from barking. Or those that actually go so far as to have their dogs vocal cords removed.

I hope God is a Dog.

This post reminds me of my favorite Far Side comic.. two bears are in a circus act and one of them is holding his muzzle in his hand and turns to the other one and says, "Well hey... these things just snap right off."

Originally posted by Max Power
You could try strapping a muzzle on them and asking them how they feel? If you do that, make sure it's on tight so the irony of them not being able to tell you how they feel is not lost.

I agree!!! Ask them how they would feel? Do they think dogs dont have feelings also? i only think the muzzle should be used for dogs who might bite someone. but only when people or other animals are around. I dont think it should be used for any other reason. It isnt right.

Really helpful links Micheal. I think my parents are changing their minds. Yay! Thanks for everyone's help.

If one of their reasons for muzzling the dog is to prevent biting, they probably won't be very successful, especially in a non-aggressive dog. A muzzle should never be used regularly to prevent biting. Often it can backfire, and a non-aggressive dog will become aggressive when approached with the muzzle, knowing the torment he is about to go through. I myself don't particularly like the sound of a dog barking, but I would never muzzle my dog or have him debarked. There is tons of information about how to train your dog not to bark, it just takes a little patience. The trick is you have to give your dog a natural outlet for his urge to bark, such as teaching him barking tricks - teach him to bark his age, etc. Teaching a dog to bark on command will make for a neat trick and help control unwanted barking. A muzzle will not be nearly so effective, just be a band aid solution.

What do you think about Haltis? Kinda like a muzzle...not nearly as tight. Without my golden retrievers would drag me to the park and pulll the leashes on their throats.

Haltis are very humane...I doubt his parents would get one though, 'cause the dog could still bark.

That is just the worst reason for getting a muzzle I've ever heard. It's true..if you don't want your dog to bark, don't get a dog. At the very least, they're not deciding to debark your dog. That should be illegal. :(

kpickell,

People actually have their dogs' vocal cords removed? I've never heard of that.

Sickening. >____<

Silver C: on an unrelated note, your G-pig (in the pic) it too adoreable for words!

onto other topics:

i guess that a "haltis" is what we call a "gentle lead" here, where a dog as a harness-like strap across his snout? it actually works well and is more humane for the dog than a collar. of course, i still prefer the chest harness over the throat collar or the gentle leads.

For most small dogs, the harness will do fine. For larger, harder to control dogs (particularly strong, young, untrained dogs) the gentle lead seems to work best with them.

Which reminds me, i may need a home for my sister in law's dog, Charlie. He's a sweet monster. He needs lots of space to tire himself out. He's short (about knee height) but heavy (about 60 lbs full grown they reck'n, though he's about 45 lbs now at a little under a year. the family basicly restricts his food too much--they're freaks about fat and body issues, and play the game on their animals too--so he needs to eat a bit more). He's very strong and is basicly beaten every day by my sister in law and her boyfriend because they can't control his puppiness and just don't ahve the patience to treat him like a living being (and a baby living being.)

anyway, he flinches if you move a certain way toward him. . .and i htink that's a bad sign. I told the two of them if i saw so much as a mark on that dog, or if he doesn't stop flinching, i'm taking him and giving him to someone benevolent.

so there. I'd say the same to Tova's parents. ;)

Originally posted by ceryna
kpickell,

People actually have their dogs' vocal cords removed? I've never heard of that.

Sickening. >____<

Yeah, can you believe that there are vets that will actually do this! It's called debarking. I did a quick search (debarking surgery cost) and right away found several vet websites that mention they will perform the surgey, for example see here: http://www.colerainanimalclinic.com/debark.htm (note this is a pro-debarking clinic)

I was bitten by a dog wearing a muzzle when I was a teenager riding my bicycle. I guess we could get into the semantics of what "bitten" means. The muzzle was loose enough that the dog was able to get a partial bite on me from the side of his mouth, but it probably would have been a lot worse without the muzzle.

It wasn't that big a deal, except I think I had to get a tetanus shot.

People here in Tennessee seem to let their dogs run loose, despite leash laws. My neighbor's dog comes charging at me every time I try to go check the mail.

So, I have mixed feelings about muzzles.

Joe, when we lived in Florida, and my middle son was 3, his favorite job was to collect the mail everyday. But, then our neighbors started letting their Chow dogs roam free and they were pretty aggressive, so we couldn't let him be our "mail man" anymore. We had to switch to stopping by the mail box in the car...but one day; I walked down our long driveway to mail a letter and didn't see the dogs until it was too late. It was like a scary movie, one came from the front and one came from the rear, slowly getting closer and closer. I was barefoot and wearing shorts. There was nothing I could do...so I yelled for help (though I didn't think anyone would actually hear me) and luckily another neighbor did hear me and ran towards the dogs with a big stick.

My then 9 year old was friends with a little girl a few houses away and should have been able to walk to her house, but because of the dogs, had to be driven.

When I talked to the dog's owner about the unacceptable situation...they said, "If the dogs bother you, you can just shoot 'em."

I always carry a gun when I check my mail, doesn't everybody?

putting a muzzle on an unsupervised dog so that it doesn't bark definately IS inhumane!! if you read the packaging on the muzzle, it advises against this! why don't your parents ask your vet what he/she recommends? muzzles can be dangerous for all breeds, not just bulldogs. my pitty has to wear a muzzle because of the ban (I live in Ontario, Canada)...& in the summertime...she actually starts to gasp & heave for air b/c she can't pant. we switched to an adjustable "comfort muzzle" which allows her to pant. dogs NEED to pant. they can't cool their bodies by sweating like we can. it's their only way to cool down. that's why dogs shouldn't be left alone w/ a muzzle on. as well, the dog should be able to eat its food & drink water while wearing the muzzle. is your dog left outside? maybe they are barking at passing people/animals? maybe your dog is barking b/c they are bored/lonely/anxious? your vet or a certified animal behaviouralist may help w/ this. training is essential for dogs. think of it this way. if you never taught a child right from wrong, or disciplined them, could you blame them if they did something bad? a more humane option is spray collars. when your dog barks, they spray a little citrus solution under their chin....very strong smelling to the dog (smells nice to us! lol)...something like that may help. if you think that your dog is just bored....does he have toys to play with when you're gone? should be toys that he won't bite pieces off, & maybe choke. most dogs are good w/ Kongs. you can put a little peanut butter inside for him to lick out...that occupies them for a fair bit of time. or get a bone w/ marrow in the middle from the butcher shop. that should occupy him for a few hours. as well, if your dog is not getting enough exercise, he will have all this pent up energy. try taking your dog on daily walks to stimulate him & tire him out. (preferably b4 you leave in the morn). a great idea is to ride your bike w/ him. make sure to tie the leash around the pole connected to the seat of your bike...a lot more stable. your dog virtually cannot pull you except when you've stopped. gives you a lot more control & more safe than tying the leash to the handlebars (dog can pull/turn your bike to the side this way). just make sure that you wrap the leash around the pole enough times so that the leash can only reach as far as where the front wheel connect to your bike (you don't want him to be able to run in front of the wheel....that's dangerous). good luck!

You know you responding to a 5 YEAR old thread.

Damn, I didn't realize I was a member of this board that long ago.

PS: I bought my dog one of these muzzles: Happy Muzzles (http://www.doginthecity.net/product_dealers.html); and now he looks much nicer when he's lunging at people.

You know you responding to a 5 YEAR old thread.

Damn, I didn't realize I was a member of this board that long ago.


:lol:

We remove dogs' testicles and female repro organs to prevent them from multiplying. It would be more time-consuming, but better, to train dogs not engage in extra-marital sex. There are internet resources to train dogs do avoid premarital sex. But most people resort to surgery instead. And this finds widespread approval. So why not use surgery to solve the problem of barking? Remove its vocal cords? Seems logical.

We remove dogs' testicles and female repro organs to prevent them from multiplying. It would be more time-consuming, but better, to train dogs not engage in extra-marital sex.

This might be your perfect career, SM!