I'm not a feminist but...

[Joe]

Just for the record, only two VB participants have the dubious distinction of having earned a place on my "ignore" list. WyldFyre is one of them.

[MsRuthieB]

May I ask Joe (I'm nosey) who's the other?

[Joe]

Originally posted by MsRuthieB
May I ask Joe (I'm nosey) who's the other?

I'll PM you with the info. The other one was eventually banned from the board. Dunno if he has ever been rehabilitated or readmitted under another name, so don't want restart any negative thing if that is really over and done with.

BTW, you may always ask me anything you might want to know. But in some cases you may get an excuse (I'd rather not say; that info is too personal; etc) rather than a direct answer.

[MsRuthieB]

That's Cool! :D I'd totally understand if someone didn't want to tell something. I'm the same way.

[Skylark]

Tame,
Quite honestly, I don't think that name-calling will help matters. "WetFart"?? Please, can we grow up a little? When was the last time that someone called you a name and that helped you to see the error in your ways?

[Joe]

Originally posted by skylark
Tame,
Quite honestly, I don't think that name-calling will help matters. "WetFart"?? Please, can we grow up a little? When was the last time that someone called you a name and that helped you to see the error in your ways?

Ah, but how do you know that Tame wasn't just trying to "reclaim the derogatory term"? :D

[MsRuthieB]

:D heheheheheh :D

[WyldFyre]

Well imagine that. Im in a library right now yet I still havent the slightest inkling to go find a book on feminism. And ,for the record , arent all feminists 'womyn'.

I am a humanist anyways. You see contrary to everyones skewed and bigoted opinions of how they 'think' I am. You really wont find a bigger supporter of 'equality' than yours truly.

Skylark

Me and Tamale have this long standing feud. Dont try to stop it. Besides its really funny sometimes. And I said that women are still being taken advantage of. However ,feminism will never be able to change that. After the legislation is in place it is an individuals responsibility to make sure he/she is not being taken advantage of.

Kreeli

Temper ,temper little girl. Your attempts to bellittle me are far from mature which you further illustrate with your use of profanity.

Ms B

So you dont think that prior to the merger the C.E.O. would have discussed, probably as pillow talk, his plans to take over such and such a company. Furthermore ,if women werent always looking for a man based on how much money he has, we wouldnt even play the money game. However thousands of years of women being this way have evolved this structure. Women have always had as much power as men whether wielded openly or behind the curtains.

1vegan

You can ditto me with Tame

[Tame]

Originally posted by skylark
Tame,
Quite honestly, I don't think that name-calling will help matters. "WetFart"?? Please, can we grow up a little? When was the last time that someone called you a name and that helped you to see the error in your ways?


I don't remember asking your opinion.

<<Tame thinks back to make sure...>>

Nope, I'm certain. I didn't. Now hush.


And amazingly enough, I think I lean more towards WF's line of thinking, especailly after he explained it more.

The world shall end shortly.

[MsRuthieB]

WF-Think what you must. I'm not out to change anyones mind. I know it as it is in the business world. I've been climbing the ladder for about 15 years now. You can tell me what you want. I won't believe you. I've seen how it truely is for myself and other women. We are in a traditionally male dominated field. I've worked for 2 huge corporations now in my career. I've seen promotions and the like. I'm right now somewhere in the middle of the ladder with my current employer. Yes, since I started things have gotten better. But they are still not equal the further up you go in terms of title or pay.

And sure Mr. CEO may talk about his plans of what he and the other board members may do in a possible merger/takeover situation. It's highly unlikely that her opinion on the situation is going to change his mind on what he already intends to do. Husband and wife's use eachother and sounding boards all the time. I get the feeling you're implying that the wife is pulling the husbands strings somehow. If she's not involved in the day to day operations and privy to the smallest of details, there's no way she's going to be able to control her husband's business career.

[Skylark]

Tame,
You don't have to ask. If I don't have to ask for your opinion to receive it, then I surely don't have to wait for your bidding to chime in with mine.

When I first posted that, I was not aware as to the depth of the rivalry going between you and WyldFyre. Do you plan to take over every thread you two both post in from now on? This could get old. Is there another version of VB somewhere else that I just haven't seen that doesn't have either of these two characters on it? ;)

Secretly you must really both envy each other... yes, that's my theory.

[Tame]

Yeah, WF and I really took over the thread hassling each other. :rolleyes:

Is there another version of VB somewhere else that I just haven't seen that doesn't have either of these two characters on it?

I don't know. Why don't you see if you can find one? Keep us posted! Bye! :D

[Kreeli]

Originally posted by WyldFyre
Well imagine that. Im in a library right now yet I still havent the slightest inkling to go find a book on feminism.

it's funny. i know a lot of people who say they don't agree with feminism, and yet not one of them has ever picked up a book on feminist theory and read it cover-to-cover before forming their opinions, and they never intend to, either.

opinions are opinions, but uninformed opinions are just plain ignorant.


And ,for the record , arent all feminists 'womyn'.

:rolleyes: case in point.


And I said that women are still being taken advantage of. However ,feminism will never be able to change that. After the legislation is in place it is an individuals responsibility to make sure he/she is not being taken advantage of.

why should it be the oppressed persons job to fight for change? the oppressors are the ones who are causing the problem. it should be up to them to stop taking advantage of the individual. seriously, what you just said amounts to the same thing as saying, "there are laws in place against discrimination based on skin colour, so if black people don't want this to be a racist society, they need to take responsibility for people being racist towards them". or, to take the analogy a step further, it's like saying, "there is legislation in place to keep people from abusing, exploiting, and mistreating animals. after that, it's up to the animals to take responsibility for their own welfares." you dig?


Temper ,temper [b]little girl. Your attempts to bellittle me are far from mature which you further illustrate with your use of profanity.

and he says he's not sexist. :rolleyes:


So you dont think that prior to the merger the C.E.O. would have discussed, probably as pillow talk, his plans to take over such and such a company. Furthermore ,if women werent always looking for a man based on how much money he has, we wouldnt even play the money game. However thousands of years of women being this way have evolved this structure. Women have always had as much power as men whether wielded openly or behind the curtains.

dude, how arrogant is it to think that a woman has nothing better to do than sit around thinking about what her man's job is and how she can 'pull the strings'. get a brain. the majority of women, i guarantee this, are too freaking busy trying to take care of their own **** without having to worry about what the hell the "little man" is up to at his job.

as for women wanting men with money, well, sweetie, in a world where they haven't been allowed to amass their own wealth, can you really blame them? it wasn't women who set this whole money thing up. check your history books and tell me who the richest gender has been throughout all the centuries where currency has been in use.

[Kreeli]

skylark, you can create your own tame- and wyldfyre-free version of veggieboards by going into your user cp and making use of the "edit ignore list" function.

[1vegan]

Originally posted by Tame
Your statement is stupid, and yes, sexist. How can one sex be "better" than the other? If it is possible, is it not possible males are actually superior? Think before you type.

How can one sex be better than the other? I think they are equal. There are stupid man, and there are stupid woman.

I put it this way because in some cases a woman does the job better.
( and I don’t mean the dishes, and I don’t mean ‘that’ to)
I like working with woman. They have a different look at “problems” and often come with a solution that a man would not have found that easily.
There are woman that are smarter than me. And you cannot say that man are superior.

Feminist is a uni-sex “word” it means : some one who finds that man and woman are equal”

I lately read, and was surprised that woman don’t have equal rights as men in the USA.
There was a treaty accepted in Washington, but this wasn’t ratified in time by all the states, which made the treaty invalid……..

[Tame]

1vegan - sorry for the misunderstanding. When you wrote "Woman are as good as (or even better) as men" I took that as you saying women, as a group, are possibly superior to men.

If you are saying that you mean in individual cases, I agree fully.

[WyldFyre]

Kreeli

Are you dense? Of course its the oppressed's job to fight against the oppression. Your animal example is an obvious grasping at straws now. Animals cant really take their oppressors to court now can they. People can.

Your failure to see my 'womyn' comment for the humor it was supposed to be is a clear case of 'ignorance' on your own part.

Sexist? Not hardly. Ive worked with women on the fire line and Ive seen many of them work man after man into the ground and Ive always given them the praise they deserved.

Ms B

I dont really want to tick you off so Ill do my best not too.

You say youve been struggling in the male dominated business world and are not getting equal title or pay. Have you ever discussed this with a lawyer? Or prior to that and less drastic have you approached your male oppressors and discussed your feelings on this with them?

I say this because I had a job where all of management were women and they kept it that way. It must have been one of those 'old girls clubs' hmm?? One guy did manage to get in but he had to 'sleep his way to the top'. And I mean that very literally. Additionally in my current field Ive seen men and women with less experience and qualifications get promoted over me. And nothing changed until I spoke up and pointed out my qualifications.

Also on a broader sense ,and leaving the business world out of it, I would say that average pay for men is higher because they do harder jobs. Go to your nearsest construction sight and point out to me how many women are willing to break their backs to bring the bread home. Equal pay for equal work?? Absolutely!

1vegan

How is 'feminist' a uni-sex word unless you want to say that feminism is for women and a few petite men?

By the same token we could then call it the masculinist movement and it would mean the same thing.

No ,Im sorry but, huminist is uni-sex. Feminist implies that you only want to help women.

[Kreeli]

Originally posted by WyldFyre
Kreeli

Are you dense?

OHHH, yes. i'm dense. that must be why i keep coming back to this discussion with you, even though you aren't willing to actually learn anything from it. :rolleyes: dense, dense me.


Of course its the oppressed's job to fight against the oppression. Your animal example is an obvious grasping at straws now. Animals cant really take their oppressors to court now can they. People can.

we won't even get into which gender it is that is primarily "in charge" of distributing "justice" now, will we. it is different, in the sense that all analogies are inherently flawed, but it's the same principle. it should never be the victims' responsibility to stop victimization, especially not after LEGISLATION to discourage would-be victimizers is put into place. i fail to see how it is a woman's responsibility to keep men from harrassing her. it is a man's responsibility to not harrass women in the first place. period.



Your failure to see my 'womyn' comment for the humor it was supposed to be is a clear case of 'ignorance' on your own part.

whatever it was, it wasn't funny.


Sexist? Not hardly. Ive worked with women on the fire line and Ive seen many of them work man after man into the ground and Ive always given them the praise they deserved.

ooo, so you've actually said NICE things to women you work with? how very enlightened of you. i guess we should all just throw ourselves at the feet of Mr. I Can't Be Sexist Some Of My Best Friends Are Women, now, should we?

[1vegan]

Originally posted by WyldFyre
1vegan
How is 'feminist' a uni-sex word unless you want to say that feminism is for women and a few petite men?

No ,Im sorry but, huminist is uni-sex. Feminist implies that you only want to help women.

I once had a discussion with a woman and she said, your a man you can't be feminist.
Then whe took the dictionary to look up the word and it said:
A person who wants equal rights for woman.

It didn't say "a woman that wants equal rights like man"

[WyldFyre]

Fine 1vegan. You can be a feminist and want equal rights for women and Ill keep being a humanist and want equal rights for everyone. I have no problem with that.

Even if Kreeli hasnt heard it Im sure someone else has. There is always that feminist that states that women should be spelled womyn since woman or women has a derivitive of 'man' in it.

[kirkjobsluder]

Argh. Now there is a pet peeve of mine. The term "Humanist" DOES NOT MEAN WANTING EQUALITY FOR EVERYONE! It is a philosophical postition that ethics and morality should be based on what we know about the human condition rather than supernaturalism. The antonym of humanism is not feminism, but religious dogma.

[MsRuthieB]

Originally posted by WyldFyre
Fine 1vegan. You can be a feminist and want equal rights for women and Ill keep being a humanist and want equal rights for everyone. I have no problem with that.

Even if Kreeli hasnt heard it Im sure someone else has. There is always that feminist that states that women should be spelled womyn since woman or women has a derivitive of 'man' in it.

Who gives a **** how it spelled really, in the grand scheme of things. Spell it woamin.....doesn't change a damn thing if you ask me!

[WyldFyre]

I wasnt implying you were that person Ms B. Just that there are hard right wing feminists that say such things.

And I really dont care what the dictionary says. Want to lay odds ten to one that I could start a 'humanist' club and make it mean equality for all.

[KC Kid]

Don't forget about AA too.

[WyldFyre]

And KC's plane is coming in for a landing .. looks good.. nope went right over my head AA??