Let's talk about it! Myths, beliefs, options, information, education, experiences, hopes, dreams...

do you have some news you want to share, poesia?

Heaven, no. We have a ways to go for that! Just started it because we got off-topic in Christmas Shopping thread. It's just a topic I love and am passionate about.

I just walked in from a concert and was wondering that myself :)

well, i have two kidlets.

my son was born in a hospital with nurses and doctors and that whole experience.

my daughter was born at home with a midwife and her assistant and my friends and family in attendance.

if i ever were to have another babe, i would want another home birth. it was, far and away, the most amazing, empowering experience i've ever had in my entire life.

I have had a lot of friends who have had home births (some who have also have hospital births) and they say the same thing you do. I can't imagine the feeling of being at home and having everyone around you. <warm glow> Or maybe I can imagine. Any advice you would share with us who would like to have a midwife assisted home birth?

By the way, this is the info I posted in the other thread about ultrasounds:

If you think about what an ultrasound is, it's understandable how it can be damaging and upsetting to the baby. Ultrasound is what they use to break up big chunks of concrete that are set into the ground that they can't otherwise get out. Now, I realize that this is not the same level of ultrasound used on pregnant women but it's still the same vibrational energy. There have been studies where women who had more than one ultrasound had babies with lower birth weights than women who had only one ultrasound. There have also been animal experiments (bastards!) that had weird affects on the animals when exposed to ultrasound. Ultrasounds are said to be safe when not routinely used but most women I know are now going in for multiple ultrasounds in a healthy pregnancy. It's just something that I wouldn't want to expose my baby to if at all possible.

The FDA approved the use of ultrasound (high frequency sound) for fetal imaging (sonogram) and fetal monitoring during labor without requiring manufacturers of the devices to advise the physician and the patient that the delayed, long-term effects of ultrasound on the subsequent development of the fetus, and especially on the ova of the female fetus, are unknown.

In February 1984 an FDA/NIH panel of experts issued a statement recommending against the routine use of ultrasound in obstetrics, stating that "there is not enough evidence that routine screening with ultrasound benefits either the mother or the fetus." The panel recommended that ultrasound be used only when there is a valid medical indication. That note of caution was expressed earlier by FDA officials during a Senate hearing on obstetric management in 1978. Unfortunately, the general public does not read federal proceedings, nor would they have heard FDA officer Marion Finkel in 1979 when she summarized the FDA's concern to health professionals:

"Increasing concern has arisen regarding the fetal safety of widely used diagnostic ultrasound in obstetrics. Animal studies have been reported to reveal delayed neuromuscular development, altered emotional behavior, EEG (brain wave) changes, anomalies, and decreased survival. Genetic alterations have also been demonstrated in vitro systems."

Several major research studies have failed to show that routine electronic fetal monitoring improves maternal and infant outcome except in very high-risk mothers. The fact that the FDA waited several years before bringing this and the above information to the attention of the public via a news release or the FDA Consumer magazine has led the public to assume falsely that diagnostic ultrasound used in fetal imagery and fetal monitoring is without risk.

For further information read the report of the FDA's
Center for Devices and Radiological Health entitled An
Overview of Ultrasound: Theory, Measurement, Medical
Applications, and Biological Effects. HHS Publication,
FDA 82-8190, U.S. Govt. Printing Office, Washington,
DC 20402.

yes.

i avoided ultrasound scans with both my pregnancies. i had ONE with my first, and that was only because the dr. tricked me by telling me she thought i might be carrying twins (which i found out later was b.s., it was never written on my chart, and i was never showing ANY symptoms of carrying twins). i had zero ultrasounds with my second.

as for midwife assisted homebirth, i'd be happy to provide info but it is truly regional. in many states, it is illegal. here in b.c. the cost is covered by the govt in the same way doctors are so it is free, accesible (although not really since there aren't enough midwives to go around, yet), and legal. i think we're the only province that covers the expenses and makes it a legit' choice for a woman to make for herself.

the key is to turn off all the fear your brain has been programmed to blast at you over the years and trust in your own body and it's ability to do the thing that it is biologically designed to do. we have been brainwashed into thinking that pregnancy and childbirth are a "disease" or illness that need to be treated by "professionals". but the truth of the matter is, it was only really in the last 50 years that doctor-assisted hospital birth became the "norm".

all that aside, i do think there are instances where the mother and/or baby are at risk and i am glad that the medical system is there to assist with that. had there been any sign whatsoever of serious trouble with my pregnancy, my midwife was legally obligated to pass me on to an MD for further care, and i wouldn't have argued with her.

my midwives were great in that they were ALL ABOUT INFORMED CHOICE for mothers and fathers. they never pressured me to have any tests i didn't want to, they explained everything to me in excrutiating detail, risks, benefits, blah blah blah. i was given the knowledge i needed to proceed with calm and make choices that were based on facts and discriminating thought processes. this was a very different experience than what i had had with my MD and the hospital birth the first time around. i was essentially kept in the dark about most things, and if i didn't ask very pointed questions about things (sometimes repeatedly) i wouldn't get any information or answers volunteered to me. i was just expected to do this or that without voicing my concerns etc.

there are so many books on this subject. i could go on and on. but i'm tired now. ;)

Since I am the other half of any Poesía's birthing decsions I also gringe when I hear about doctors and treating prenancy as a disease. I am taking a course on medical sociology and we just finished a module on midwives, and the birthing process. It is scary what some of my fellow classmates think. "If I don't listen to my doctor I will have an unhealthy baby, the octor knows best...and I should never question him/her"

Has anyone here read "Misconceptions" by Naomi Wolfe?

I have a 2 year old and I wish so bad that I had given birth at home, I envy people who do that! I was so niave when I was pregnant, I worried that I wasn't getting enough nutrients. I drank cows milk everyday because all the pregnancy books told me to, I ate sooo much, too much! I listened to everything my doctor said because I was niave. I ended up having a c-section, because my baby was 10 1bs and breech, (even though my OB said she wasn't) which I thought would never happen to me (don't we all) Thankfully I've smartened up! The one good thing from my exprience is that I have learned a lot.
I listen much more to my intution as a mother. I realize now that I have a choice in everything, I didn't see that before. I was terribly niave.
Anyway, I don't see how anyone would want to have a hospital birth.

Anyway, I don't see how anyone would want to have a hospital birth.

well, to be fair, there are plenty of women who feel more comfortable in a hospital setting, with all of the medical knowledge and equipment at their disposal. i think that it is as valid a choice as any, for women, as long as they are informed.
INFORMED CHOICE. that's the key.

also, when i gave birth to my son in the hospital it wasn't like, a totally traumatic and scary event where i felt completely unable to make decisions for how i wanted the labour and delivery to go. i had my own "birthing suite" with a shower and couches and windows and a tape deck and i had free range all over the hospital (which was great because i walked A LOT during labour to help speed things along). the only really negative stuff that happened was that i definitely felt pressure from the dr.'s and nurses to adhere to their time tables rather than let things run their course. but i had good advocates there with me, mom and my dh, and they helped run interference with the medical staff and helped me stay strong in my belief that i didn't want any intervention if it could be helped.

a lot of women find having a professional labour support person with them (either midwife or doula) during their hospital births helps make the experience more empowering and less intimidating.

women should be allowed to choose where they want to birth without judgement, whether it be at home, in a birthing center, or at a hospital. it's highly personal.

You have to look up a woman by the name of Suzanne Arms. She is an amazingly well informed and deeply compassionate midwife out in Colorado. She has written several books on the subject, I think her best known one is called "Immaculate Deception; A New Look at Woman and Childbirth". I interviewed her a few years ago, and just fell in love with everything she represents.

'what to expect when your expecting' should be called 'what to fear when you're expecting'! i did not enjoy it at all.

try these titles:

The Hip Mama's Survival Guide by Ariel Gore
Birthing from Within by Pam England
The Thinking Woman's Guide to a Better Birth by Henci Goer
Guide to Pregnancy, Birth and the Newborn by Penny Simkin (Simkin is amazing!)
Natural Childbirth the Bradley Way by Susan McCutcheon
Spritual Midwifery by Ida May Gaskin
Baby Catcher by Peggy Vincent
The Mother of All Pregnancy Books by Ann Douglas
Your Pregnancy Week by Week by some MD or another
Anything by Sears & Sears
The Complete Book of Pregnancy and Childbirth by Sheila Kitzinger (Kitzinger is also amazing!)
A Child Is Born, by Lennart Nilsson (beautiful pictures of babes inutero)
Mamatoto, which was put out by The Body Shop.

I don't have children and most likely will not since I don't have a man (that helps a little...lol)and am getting (actually I already got) too old to have them. But if I was very healthy and younger I would probably try to have a baby at home with a midwife and a video cam (just kidding-I would not want myself filmed at that moment!). I think I would like to play whale sounds music, too. May sound weird but it feels right to me after hearing it.

Have you heard of the births where the baby is born into water? It's supposed to be less traumatizing to the baby.

I read at the chiro. office recently that birth is the first spinal truama for babies, too. Poor babies!

I never knew that about ultrasounds Posia, interesting.

Kreeli,
It is definitly different for everybody. Personally I found my hospital birth to be a horrible experience and next time around I would definitly want a different setting, one which is not so clinical and uniniviting. The nurses at the hospital were very rude to me and they even fed my child formula without my consent. Having a baby in a hospital almost seems as though you're treating it as some kind of disease.

there are plenty of women who feel more comfortable in a hospital setting, with all of the medical knowledge and equipment at their disposal.

Don't you think midwives are just as well informed medically?

If you have a home birth and live very close to a hospital, then the medical equipment is there if you absolutely need it.

It is all a personal choice, yes. Is there anybody here that has had each birth and has prefered the hospital setting, I wonder?

Don't you think midwives are just as well informed medically?

absolutely they are entirely well-versed on the subjects of pregnancy and childbirth and the complications that may arise during either. but their area of expertise does not extend beyond that; and i'm certain some mothers prefer to have expertise in other matters at their beck and call.

personally, i felt exceedingly confident in my midwives and very comfortable in their care. but even they admitted that should certain things happen during pregancy, labour and/or delivery, that they would have to pass me on to a doctor who knew how to handle these things in crisis.

however, it is within the scope of my understanding that not all women would feel as confident with midwifery as i did. and it's important that we all feel supported in our choices, no matter what they are, with regards to how we want to experience our pregnancies, labours and births.

Originally posted by Kreeli

A Child Is Born, by Lennart Nilsson (beautiful pictures of babes inutero)


I have a copy of this from the 70's. My mom showed me this book when I was 3 and she was pregnant with my brother. Recently I saw my mom was going to get rid of it, so I took it. Those pictures are so great, not only of the biology, but the people involved.

This conversation is so great. Kreeli, thanks for that list of books. Those go on my Christmas list next year and now I definitely know which books to buy my friend who is pregnant. I know she's going to go the route of epidural, as many drugs as possible, don't let me feel, I don't want to know, I'll do whatever they tell me to. But maybe I can find a book that just gives her some information to make educated choices. Women don't even know they're MAKING choices most of the time.

Originally posted by Tsila
Has anyone here read "Misconceptions" by Naomi Wolfe?

I read an excerpt from this in Ms. Magazine, I believe. Totally fascinating and revealing...

I have't shared this with anyone beyond my family, but I think I'll share this here, just to gain a little perspective and insight from you guys.

I've been married for about two and a half years. I stopped using all methods of contraception when I got married. ALL methods. And I've still not gotten pregnant. Before, I wasn't too concerned about this because I was trying to get settled and figure out my life post-college. But, here I am, wondering what in the hell is wrong with my body. When I went for my annual checkup with my gyno, I talked to her about it. She's actually a nurse practitioner, and I really really enjoy her, you know, as much as you can enjoy a gyno visit. ;)

She has me now charting my basal body temperature every morning and checking my mucous around the time of ovulation, to see if I'm actually ovulating. (Your body temp rises around the time of ovulation, about the 14th day of your cycle.) She said that they have patients chart for three months to make sure they're ovulating. AT this point, she can also order a semen analysis for Nick. Then, they bascially have the patient chart for a year or so because some women are actually seasonally fertile, you know, fertile mostly at particular times of the year. (This totally makes sense to me because my mother had all three of us about the time of the year.) So, they check to see if you're seasonally fertile before recommending any fertility therapy.

So, that's where I am. Charting away. A little worried that something isn't working inside of me, but mostly trying to keep an open spirit about it.

It's funny (not funny ha-ha, funny weird) that when you can't do something, you want to do it even more. But maybe it's not supposed to happen? Maybe it's not the right time? *shrugs*

well poesia, i felt much the same way it sounds like your friend does, until i got into my childbirth classes with my first pregnancy. we had an amazing instructor who also happened to be a doula (a professional labour support person), and she really got me to thinking about how birth can, and probably should be a kind of 'rite of passage' for women. becoming a mother is such a crazy life-changing event that i think it's important we all try to really 'experience' that transition; including all the pain and messiness. it all speaks to the immense life alterations that we are going to go through once the newborn is home. and i think that experiencing a natural childbirth, where you feel like you've actually DONE it, all by yourself (or with minimal assistance), is such an amazing accomplishment and is so, so, so validating that you come out the other side feeling like super woman.

it's a wonderful thing, learning to trust in your body's own ability to do what it needs to do. i felt like a GODDESS after my daughter's homebirth. and everyone treated me like one, too. i got phone calls from distant relations who had previously scoffed at me when they found out i was planning a homebirth and they were all so impressed and amazed that i'd done it the way i did.

the other beautiful thing about it was my (then) four year old son got to see his sister be born. it was so great to have my whole family in there, encouraging me and being a part of the process. i really feel that it bonded my son to his sister; at least in part. some hospitals won't allow small children, even siblings, into the delivery room.

maybe i'll find and post my daugher's birth story here. i wrote it all down the day after she was born.

I'd love to read it, Kreeli, if you ever get the chance to post it. ;) Your post gave me tingles.

Oh, I like this thread! :) I have so many things that I want to write.

I recently had a unmedicated hospital birth with a midwife. Before we started trying, I knew I wanted a midwife and an unmedicated birth. I really wanted to be at home but b/c of insurance we had to go to the hospital. Going to the hospital however, really wasn't as bad as I thought it was going to be. The nurses were fantastically supportive and helpful and honestly I enjoyed being there to call on them if I needed anything or had questions. I think next time we will go to the same hospital.

I think the biggest thing about making the birthing decision is if the woman has been exposed to different choices made by women around her. My sister went unmed and while that wasn't the reason i went unmed, she was a good sounding board to bounce thoughts and questions off of. All the other women I spoke to had epidurals and said "Your nuts to not want drugs" or "just wait until your in labor". (Those comments really turned me off because as women it would seem that we would encourage each others choices but....) I went to an Ivilllage message board for unmed birth and it was great! Support from other women and having your questions answered in an unhysterical way was so helpful. Bringing Joey into this world with out any kind of IV in me or drugs in my system was incredible! I feel so powerful and it gives me a whole new perspective on life. I think every woman should at least give it a good honest try.

My sister in law who has 3 kids, all of them hospital with male doctor and epidurals, said to me "If you can do it with out pain why not? It's not like you get a medal". To those type of comments I would think, if it was just about doing it without pain it would be a no brainer. However, there ARE risks involved with various drugs and epidurals. You CAN have serious side affects. After researching the studies, i felt the risks outwayed the one benfit of me not feeling anything. Really, I think you SHOULD feel something, your performing one of the greatest feats in all the world, bring a living human being into the world! Who doesn't want to feel that miraculous process!? Whew! Sorry for the rant. :)

Sidenote, I think alot of the pain comes from fear. Fear can do strange things with your mind so if the fear is gone the pain isn't as bad. One of the things I did in the months before his arrival was to sit down, write down my fears and put them under a microscope as to why am i feeling this, is this fear real, how can i remedy this fear, and I prayed about it. I think that was from Birthing from Within. Good book. What to Expect when your expecting. Bad book. :) One of the questions to the author is from a husband "My wife isn't loosing the weight she gained in pregnancy. What can I do to help her get back to her old figure?" The author than suggests, to "gently ask her at dinner if she really want's seconds since she isn't back to her old figure yet". Heh, heh. Had my husband "gently asked" me that, he would have gotten a fork in his arm. ;) The book is antiquated and chovanistic (sp?) at worst and mildly helpful at best.

Oh, I could go on forever on this topic. I'll have to come back and visit this thread when I have a chance.

I just went to Amazon to read the reviews of "What to expect when you're expecting" and many of them reflected the disappointment that some of you here have expressed. I never read, but I've seen it on so many people's book shelves, I assumed people liked it. But from what a lot of people say it is somewhat condescending and narrowminded. One example given was that the book only refers to the woman's "husband" instead of the babie's father, or your birthing partner, or whatever your situation may be. Seems a little presumptuous.

Gosh, I feel like an idiot. When my sister gave birth to her daughter, Peyton, and I actually gave her What To Expect When You're Expecting and a daily journal type thing by the same series of books. Ugh. I wish I'd known more then about good books for her. Now I know, I guess. ;)