Having a baby when it can kill you . . .

[Alfiedog]

I have a second cousin and I'm not sure of the exact details as we aren't close at all. . . but . . . about ten years ago she got married. After she was diagnosed with some disease and the doctors advised her against having a baby because it would be very dangerous to her health. Against her doctor's orders she went forward and got pregnant and had the baby. Her life was in serious jeopardy she was in the ICU for weeks. THe doctors then advised her that she should never have another baby. A few years after she decided to go ahead even if it killed her. She had another baby and again it did almost kill her. Anyway, my point is that it was irresponsible for her to have these babies when she could have died. Especially the second baby as she was chancing that the first one would grow up without a mother. What do you think?

[vggiegirl]

I agree Alfiedog. Seems like she was willing to play god, against doctors wishes. I don't know if I would be willing to risk the welfare and hapiness of one child (i.e. possibility of losing a mother) just to have another. I would probably get a dog :)

[prairie_girl]

really depends. Did she actually try to get pregnant? what I don't understand is why not adopt?

[kristadb]

Well, we can't have it both ways people. If it's her body to be allowed to end life, then it's her body to start life.

[Alfiedog]

Yes she delibrately set out to get pregnant.

[missleigh]

Well, we can't have it both ways people. If it's her body to be allowed to end life, then it's her body to start life.

She's allowed, but that doesn't make it responsible thing to do. In fact, it seems kinda crazy if you ask me. But if that's what she wants to do *shrugs*

[thebelovedtree]

I have a neighbor like this, shes on kid #4 because shes trying to have a girl, but she also has lupus, which makes it very dangerous to have children, and makes her unable to keep up with the kids she does have.

I'm with you guys shes of course allowed, but it is very irresponsible.

[prairie_girl]

see, I don't even know how irresponsible it is. I have that burning desire to actually carry a child too.... my partner doesn't. becuase of a condition, carrying a child really could kill her. However, if she was to decide she wanted to, which I really really really can't see her doing, I would support her.

[zoebird]

on the one hand, i'm with krista--it's her body, she can do what she wants. But then, i don't think anyone was advocating any legal action. so, we are free to give opinions as to whether or not we liked what the woman did or think she should have done something differently.

i think that what she did was foolish, at best. i don't think that i want a baby to be biologically related to me that much. BUT, apparently to some people, that's the most important thing--adoption isn't really an option for them. I was surprised to learn this from my aunt. For many years, they thought she was infertile when she suddenly ended up pregnant (they were not trying or not not-trying, it just happened). she was terribly excited, but ended up miscarrying in the early part of the second trimester. After everything was healed up, she came to visit us for a while, and i asked her about adopting. She said that her husband didn't really want children (though was excited about the surprise pregnancy) and that she really onyl wants her own children--so she accepts that she won't be a mom. i thought that was odd--if she wants to me a mom and he wants to be a dad, then all they need is a kid. why does she have to give birth to one for it to be "acceptable" to her? She couldn't answer that question (though i asked it kindly and not exactly as i posted it above).

i know another couple who have tried for many years (and through many miscarriages) to get pregnant and have decided to stop trying (he got a vasectomy). I asked them if they were going to adopt through catholic social services (they're a very catholic family). they said no, and that they didn't want children unless they were biologically related.

Again, i really don't understand the feelings, and there doens't seem to be a lot of logic involved. i know many other people who have adopted and have wonderful children, wonderful families, and are very happy.

i think that if i were confronted with the choice between dying and living, i would choose living. if i knew that i wanted to be a parent, i would adopt. why another person wouldn't, i can't guess.

here's another, extremely terrible, related story. a woman in my neighborhood has severe diabetes. she had her first child and her doc said--don't ahve any more, in fact, you shouldn't have had this one. her husband said he wanted another child, even though she didn't want to. her doc said 'you could go blind, you amy have to go on dialysis, etc'--her husband insisted. so, she had a second child which greatly compromised her health (BTW, this guy is never around with the kids). then, after that incident, he said "i want another kid" and told her that if she didn't have another kid, he would divorce her for a "more womanly wife" and was basicly a jackasp. so, she had another child and now she's blind. those of us in the neighborhood have taken the time to help her out with her kids, she's having to learn how to read with braile; her husband still expects her to do all the house-wife stuff, mother stuff, without much help from him. she said she's not having any more children--as she can hardly care for the three she has. and now he's having an affair and talking divorce because she won't have any more children. When i asked him why they just can't adopt, he said something about his sperm and other garbage that i just wanted to punch him. He told his wife "my girlfriend is moving in to help us all out; you'll live with it or we're getting a divorce and i don't want the kids."

anyone want to join an angry mob?

that really ticks me off.

[Alfiedog]

Yeah I guess that's the bottom line, that it's her right to do so, but it does indeed seem so irresponsible to do something like that. I can almost emphathize with having the first one to a point (even that was just as irresponsible) but to have a second one is . . . I don't even have the words.

[prairie_girl]

starts handing out lit torches and pitch forks.

[vggiegirl]

here's another, extremely terrible, related story. a woman in my neighborhood has severe diabetes. she had her first child and her doc said--don't ahve any more, in fact, you shouldn't have had this one. her husband said he wanted another child, even though she didn't want to. her doc said 'you could go blind, you amy have to go on dialysis, etc'--her husband insisted. so, she had a second child which greatly compromised her health (BTW, this guy is never around with the kids). then, after that incident, he said "i want another kid" and told her that if she didn't have another kid, he would divorce her for a "more womanly wife" and was basicly a jackasp. so, she had another child and now she's blind. those of us in the neighborhood have taken the time to help her out with her kids, she's having to learn how to read with braile; her husband still expects her to do all the house-wife stuff, mother stuff, without much help from him. she said she's not having any more children--as she can hardly care for the three she has. and now he's having an affair and talking divorce because she won't have any more children. When i asked him why they just can't adopt, he said something about his sperm and other garbage that i just wanted to punch him. He told his wife "my girlfriend is moving in to help us all out; you'll live with it or we're getting a divorce and i don't want the kids."

anyone want to join an angry mob?

that really ticks me off.


:eek: :no: Wow...he is sick

[Alfiedog]

ZB - that last story you told is absolutely infuriating. But that woman must be so insecure that she allowed her husband's ultimatums to take precedence over her own health. To be honest, my feelings of outrage at the husband are tempered with a feeling of "well she deserved it", as horrible as it sounds. Actually, by the sound of it they probably wouldn't have been allowed to adopt.

[zoebird]

she had a lot of fears about loosign her husband, so she decided to accept the abuse. but, i don't think anyone deserves abuse.

the truth is, there are problems are both sides, but now she feels completely trapped. if she doesn't give in to her husband's demands to allow this woman to move in, she'll end up divorced, blind, with three small children, unable to work to take care of herself, and a myriad of other problems. she's terrified of being without him now, because she needs someone to support her and the kids. so, the girlfriend is moving in!

i don't think she deserves it, but she knows she made poor choices too--choices based in fear of loosing her husband, her security, and a huge part of her identity.

[vggiegirl]

she had a lot of fears about loosign her husband, so she decided to accept the abuse. but, i don't think anyone deserves abuse.

the truth is, there are problems are both sides, but now she feels completely trapped. if she doesn't give in to her husband's demands to allow this woman to move in, she'll end up divorced, blind, with three small children, unable to work to take care of herself, and a myriad of other problems. she's terrified of being without him now, because she needs someone to support her and the kids. so, the girlfriend is moving in!

i don't think she deserves it, but she knows she made poor choices too--choices based in fear of loosing her husband, her security, and a huge part of her identity.


She doesn't deserve it per se...but no man is worth that. I wish women could see that *sigh*

[eggplant]

She doesn't deserve it per se...but no man is worth that. I wish women could see that *sigh*

I agree--it's sad.

As for Alfiedog's cousin, while I wouldn't make the same choices she has and I think the choices she did make were risky, she has the right to get pregnant if she wants to. Maybe she felt she knew her own strength better than the doctors did. Since it seems to have turned out ok after all, I don't feel I could judge her...

[pavlovskitty]

I have a second cousin and I'm not sure of the exact details as we aren't close at all. . . but . . . about ten years ago she got married. After she was diagnosed with some disease and the doctors advised her against having a baby because it would be very dangerous to her health. Against her doctor's orders she went forward and got pregnant and had the baby. Her life was in serious jeopardy she was in the ICU for weeks. THe doctors then advised her that she should never have another baby. A few years after she decided to go ahead even if it killed her. She had another baby and again it did almost kill her. Anyway, my point is that it was irresponsible for her to have these babies when she could have died. Especially the second baby as she was chancing that the first one would grow up without a mother. What do you think?

Okay, this one touched me. I have two kids, and a week after the second one was born, I was hospitalized again with congestive heart failure. I was diagnosed with cardiomyopathy, which is where the heart muscle is stretched or weakened. My weak spot I believe was on the left, so it didn't keep up with the right.

I was told not to get pregnant again, as it might kill me. I was offered a hysterectomy, since I also have endometriosis. I declined.

I can't imagine my life without the blessings I've been given. But I also know that doctors can be wrong. What's the difference between her choosing to attempt a normal life and them telling her not to? Aren't both different sides of "playing god?" I don't know your cousin's situation, but maybe she felt she needed to have children, perhaps as her legacy should something happen.

I don't know what the future holds. Five or six years down the line, I might meet someone...I might choose to reproduce with that person. That's the key there, choose. I know when everything else on the scales balance, I would die for my children without hesistation.

Sorry for rambling on.

[iceflower]

I'm not sure if I would put my life on the line, but I guess it depends on how desperate you are to have your own, biological children. I can completely understand her doing it the first time, and I think she's really brave for doing it.
I do think it's a bit unresponsible though to do it again when she's got the first child to think about. Is it worth the risk of the possibility of him growing up without a mother, just so they she can have another child? However, don't want to make judgements - maybe if it came to me being in the same situaiton, I would do it too.

[renaissancesun]

starts handing out lit torches and pitch forks.





Grrrrrrrrrrrrr. Forget the pitchfork. I want a big GUN!

What a jerk! :(

[tearhsong2]

Zoebird, wow. I can't believe there's still people in this world that still think like that. It's so sad. And horribly, horribly wrong. If she shouldn't have children, her husband should have accepted that. It doesn't make her any less a woman. I can't believe that he still expects her to take care of her children when she's blind--he was the one who wanted the children so badly, so he should be more than willing to help take care of them. I hope for her own sake, she considers leaving him. A divorce in this situation would be best for her and her kids. She'd probably have to move in with family to help her take care of her kids or go after him legally to get him to pay for a nanny after what he's done to his family. I hope for the sake of the other woman, that she doesn't get backed into a similar situation. Nobody deserves to be treated that way, no one. :no:

I'm in a situation where it's possible that I shouldn't and can't have children. I had cancer when I was little and only have one kidney as a result of that. The chemo I went through could have very well made me infertile, but we haven't really gotten into trying yet, so we're not sure. I've talked to my doctor about it and she's tested my kidney function which is normal. She still doesn't terribly like the idea of me having kids because of the strain of pregnancy on the kidneys.

I want kids of my own, but I'd also be happy adopting or going without having kids. I like my life without kids right now, so it would be ok. I'd get my exposure to kids by being around my nephew and nieces and the neighborhood kids. I could always have pets, too and be happy. It's something I've given a lot of thought to. My husband would probably be disappointed at first--he really wants kids, but he'd get over it. LOL Sometimes it feels like I'm taking care of him!

[Moonflower]

Since when do we believe everything doctors tell us? Not to mention, as your relative is still alive, this Dr was obviously wrong. Twice.

This would be a very hard decision and I wonder the Dr's reasoning behind telling her this. Without knowing, I can only say that she obviously knew her body and what it is capable of best. And it is her body, her choice.

Putting the child at risk is something that I would be very concerned about, but given the "alternative" treatments (rest, diet, stress management, light excercise, etc) and the modern supervised medicine I am assuming she had, high risk births are more and more successful.

[Alfiedog]

She is still alive, but it was very high risk. She was hospitalized for a while. And it wasn't just one doctor that advised her against - it was a whole slew of doctors and specialist. I wish I can remember what she has . . .I don't think the doctors were wrong per se, but I think it really is sheer luck that she's still alive.

I understand why she wanted a biological child (although I cannot empathize with it) but to have another one, when you have a responsibility to remain safe and alive for your first child is completely irresponsible.

[Skylark]

I'm not putting my life on the line so I can have a biological child. [/indignance]We discussed this a few days ago in my Faith & Personal Ethics class--I asked my (anti-abortion) professor if he considered it willful negligence for a woman who knows she has a high likelihood of miscarrying to get intentionally pregnant. He wasn't sure, but it raises some sticky issues.

I can't understand the mindset that only accepts biological progeny and refuses all ideas of adoption--yes, it's more money and time, but if its that or compromise your health AND spend a lot on medical bills, the choice is clear to me.

[bumble]

I agree with Pavlovskitty and Moonflower..very much!!

I ,too have a disease(thyroid) and those Doctors..SCREWED me to say the least..they made me remove my thyroid due to tumors and such..but,it was just a un-happy thyroid,I later learned.I should have gotten a NATUROPATHIC DOC!!Now I have no thyroid,I take meds and my fertility is questionable.They threatend me with cancer,and put my LIFE at risk for surgery!!

They are NOT always right.I rarely belive a word they say!!!

I think this woman put her life and her children in Gods hands..I commend her for that.