Foreign interference in US elections?

[Indian Summer]

Conveniently in time just before the elections...
tellhim.no (http://www.tellhim.no/?module=displaysection&section_id=102&format=html)
Do ya think this will help in preventing a second term for Bush II? (Or did I waste 40 good NOKs on a campaign that will only help to portray norwegains as self-righteous bastards?)

[Tame]

And I should care what Norwegians think because...?

[Indian Summer]

Exactly. I don't know. Perhaps because of the "Bush is turning our allies against us" argument. Also, there are some millions of voters of Norwegian descent. Perhaps they are more likely to care?

[Bankruptor]

Exactly. I don't know. Perhaps because of the "Bush is turning our allies against us" argument. Also, there are some millions of voters of Norwegian descent. Perhaps they are more likely to care?

I've never really felt that Bush turned our allies against us, conventional propaganda notwithstanding. I think that our allies were never with us in the first place; they were only allies when we were acting in their best interest, such as keeping the Soviet Union from running roughshod over their frontier. Now that they have a slight feeling of security from invasion, then suddenly all they need from us is our money. If they are asked to contribute in some small way then forget it, they aren't willing.

With "allies" like those, who needs enemies?

[Kurmudgeon]

What about US interference in foreign elections? Like Bush and a few other officials sticking their nose in domestic Aussie politics in recent times. Michael Moore did it too, although that's not so bad since he's not a US official.

Then you have the CIA's involvement in the sacking of the Whitlam government of Australia in 1975. And rumours (most likely untrue, though) of the CIA involved in the disappearance of Australian Prime Minster Howard Holt in 1967 (he was going to withdraw Aussie troops from Vietnam).
I wouldn't be surprised if Howard's recent re-election victory was aided by secret CIA activites (just gotta wait for the conspiracy theorists to think of that one.... I feel inclined to give them a little nudge).

[Tame]

What about US interference in foreign elections? Like Bush and a few other officials sticking their nose in domestic Aussie politics in recent times. Michael Moore did it too, although that's not so bad since he's not a US official.



See, if I were an Aussie, my response to such activities would be, "And why do i care about what the US thinks?"

[azul_sky]

I've never really felt that Bush turned our allies against us, conventional propaganda notwithstanding. I think that our allies were never with us in the first place; they were only allies when we were acting in their best interest, such as keeping the Soviet Union from running roughshod over their frontier. Now that they have a slight feeling of security from invasion, then suddenly all they need from us is our money. If they are asked to contribute in some small way then forget it, they aren't willing.

With "allies" like those, who needs enemies?

<<they were only allies when we were acting in their best interest<< Isn't this the way every country thinks? What is in their best interest? I feel like it is these types of blanket sentiments that alienate us ( I am a U.S. citizen) from the rest of the world. I personally think the U.S. largely chose its role as world police. We are a super power, right?

The U.S. cannot exist as an isolated entity. Foreign opinions will not decide our policies or elections, but I do think we should "care." Why? Because we all live in this world, for better or worse, and the easiest path is one of unity.

Bush claims we have a coalition of 30 countries. If the people of these countries don't support their leaders, an election year could mean a drastic change in support for the war.

[kristadb]

Bush claims we have a coalition of 30 countries.

POLAND!



;)

[Tame]

[QUOTE=azul_skyThe U.S. cannot exist as an isolated entity. Foreign opinions will not decide our policies or elections, but I do think we should "care." Why? Because we all live in this world, for better or worse, and the easiest path is one of unity.
[/QUOTE]


What? Like the UN? The same ****nuts who put Sudan and China on a human rights commission to teach us a lesson?

[azul_sky]

[QUOTE=azul_skyThe U.S. cannot exist as an isolated entity. Foreign opinions will not decide our policies or elections, but I do think we should "care." Why? Because we all live in this world, for better or worse, and the easiest path is one of unity.



What? Like the UN? The same ****nuts who put Sudan and China on a human rights commission to teach us a lesson?[/QUOTE]

You have question marks, but I am unsure what your question is. Can you elaborate?

[Tame]

I don't get the point of "unity" with some other nations, particularly through the UN, when they try to snub the US by putting two of the worst human rights violators (by UN standards" on the UN Human Rights Commission.

With friends like those, who needs enemies?

[azul_sky]

I don't get the point of "unity" with some other nations, particularly through the UN, when they try to snub the US by putting two of the worst human rights violators (by UN standards" on the UN Human Rights Commission.

With friends like those, who needs enemies?

I am going admit ignorance on this one. I don't know what you are refering to. This is some strange instance in which the UN doesn't involve the US? Everyone in the UN except for the US whole heartedly agreed to this? I don't think the United Nations is perfect in any way, and it's often way to slow to respond, but ditch the whole unity thing because the world/all nations, aren't perfect? Is this what you suggest? That we ignore the rest of the world?

[Tame]

I am going admit ignorance on this one. I don't know what you are refering to. This is some strange instance in which the UN doesn't involve the US? Everyone in the UN except for the US whole heartedly agreed to this? I don't think the United Nations is perfect in any way, and it's often way to slow to respond, but ditch the whole unity thing because the world/all nations, aren't perfect? Is this what you suggest? That we ignore the rest of the world?


When needed.

I'll get you a link for the HR Commission deal.

[kpickell]

I don't quite understand the point of that Norwegian ad. But while on the subject of Foreign interference in US elections, I read an article in newspaper from India that is asking Bush to continue supporting outsourcing. Norway doesn't need our help, and we don't need Norway's help, but India does need our help and we do need their help, so I think it's a win/win situation to support them with more jobs. Kerry doesn't seem to care about anyone but Americans. Bah to that.

[Red]

From Human Rights Watch

http://www.hrw.org/press/2001/05/unvote0503.htm


U.N. Rights Body Admits Abusive Members

(New York, May 3, 2001) Several countries with poor human rights records should not have been voted onto the United Nations Commission on Human Rights, Human Rights Watch said today.
Joining the 53-member commission today were Sudan, Uganda, Sierra Leone, and Togo, among others, to a three-year rotating membership. These countries will join Syria, Algeria, Libya, Saudi Arabia, and Vietnam, all countries with very poor human rights records elected to the commission last year.
"This is a rogues' gallery of human rights abusers," said Joanna Weschler, U.N. representative for Human Rights Watch. "A country's human rights record should be the single most important factor in whether or not it joins the commission. An abusive country cannot honestly pass judgment on other abusive countries."

Sudan is responsible for massive human rights abuses committed by forces loyal to the government in the course of its 18-year civil war, as well as for the widespread torture, harassment, and persecution of opponents of the regime. Sierra Leone has also suffered massive human rights violations in its 10-year civil war, some of them committed by forces loyal to the government.

Togo has been the target of a recent U.N. investigation on human rights abuse, while the Ugandan government has restricted political opposition in its single-party system.

The United States was also voted off the U.N. human rights commission today, for the first time in the commission's history.

"In recent years, the United States often failed to support important human rights initiatives at the commission, or found itself voting alone, on the wrong side of important issues," said Weschler. "It's not surprising that the U.S. was voted off. But to punish the United States and reward Sudan is clearly absurd."

[Dirty Martini]

Kerry doesn't seem to care about anyone but Americans.

Neither do most Americans.

but I'd be interested to see why you think that way, when Kerry is the one constantly stating that we need to gain more respect by foreign countries. Bush seems to be the one who pooh-poohs Europe and other countries (unless they kiss his ass).

But in any case, I give the US another 10 years tops. In that time, those who are now teens in India & China (millions of em) will have advanced degrees and be far more intelligent and hard-working than the American workforce. Military might will only go so far before economic and innovative might wins out. Patience, patience...

[Tame]

But in any case, I give the US another 10 years tops. In that time, those who are now teens in India & China (millions of em) will have advanced degrees and be far more intelligent and hard-working than the American workforce. Military might will only go so far before economic and innovative might wins out. Patience, patience...


Hah. They are no more intelligent or hard working, though they like to perceive themselves that way.
Remember when Japan was over taking us? Germany? The list goes on.

China has internal issues that are already giving them grief, and India wants to be just like us, which means Coca-Cola, rock/hip hop, and blue jeans will be their downfall.

[Bankruptor]

I can see India overtaking the US in viral and bacterial infections, so in that sense perhaps they are superior . . . :lol:

[Indian Summer]

Hah. They are no more intelligent or hard working, though they like to perceive themselves that way.
Remember when Japan was over taking us? Germany? The list goes on.
According to professor of peace studies, Johan Galtung, your days as a super-power are numbered. He predicts the downfall to take place within 2020: On the Coming Decline and Fall of the US Empire (http://www.transnational.org/forum/meet/2004/Galtung_USempireFall.html)

(Not that I necessarily believe in this prophecy, but interesting all the same.)

[Tame]

Professor of peace studies? :lol:

[Indian Summer]

Yeah, I'm sure that must seem hilarious to you, cowboy. However, in the civilized world <sniff> we actually have studies like that. There are peace research institutes both in Norway and Sweden, and several other countries - including the USA (Oregon).

[ug333]

According to professor of peace studies, Johan Galtung, your days as a super-power are numbered. He predicts the downfall to take place within 2020: On the Coming Decline and Fall of the US Empire (http://www.transnational.org/forum/meet/2004/Galtung_USempireFall.html)

(Not that I necessarily believe in this prophecy, but interesting all the same.)

It is interesting. I would take this as an opinion piece, though. I definitely don't see proof of impending doom, just that other empires have fallen, and this is what was similar about them. Correlation does not equal causality.

[Tame]

Yeah, I'm sure that must seem hilarious to you, cowboy. However, in the civilized world <sniff> we actually have studies like that. There are peace research institutes both in Norway and Sweden, and several other countries - including the USA (Oregon).


Peace institutes? I repeat - :lol:

[AccidentalVeg]

It is interesting. I would take this as an opinion piece, though. I definitely don't see proof of impending doom, just that other empires have fallen, and this is what was similar about them. Correlation does not equal causality.

Where the heck is Soilman?! He had some interesting theories about soil-related impending doom.

I think if we don't start thinking of ourselves as part of the world community again then we may find ourselves twisting in the wind madears. All alone in Vietnam v2.0. What if the rest of the world started imposing sanctions on US for our aggression? What would happen?

d

[Bankruptor]

What if the rest of the world started imposing sanctions on US for our aggression? What would happen?

d

Oh my, how could we survive as a nation if our businesses actually produced our goods HERE, instead of abroad? What if we actually KEPT our money instead of giving it to those foreign nations who would boycott us ? No more plastic Halloween teeth from China? The concept is too frightening to contemplate . . . :rolleyes:

Here's a thought - why don't we seriously develop alternatives to fossil fuel and let the entire Middle East choke on their OPEC crude? If they didn't have crude to push they'd wither and die on the vine, unless there suddenly became a market for sand. Let's defeat terrorism by eliminating the economic viability of those who are funding it.

While that's in the works, though, we've got to fight to survive. Sad, sure. True, definitely.