Doctor gets his ethics all over me

[Quizeen]

I know that we've talked about this before in regard to pharmacies, but since it happened with me this weekend in a different scenario, I'm super pissed.

Our birth control method of choice failed on Friday night, so I made a trip to the Urgent Care facility on Saturday morning in an attempt to get a Plan B prescription.

I was informed that the doctor on duty had ethical issues with dispensing that particular medication, and so I had to wait for a different doctor to come in. When that doctor finally arrived he gave me quite a bit of grief about wanting the pill, asking me "Don't you want children?" etc. before finally coughing up the pill several hours after my arrival. Fortunately, the pharmacy offered up no problems and I quickly had my pill from them.

I was exceedingly outraged by all of this. I am a 32-year-old married woman who vigilantly uses her birth control. I am a professional person with adequate medical insurance and Plan B has been legal in this country for quite some time. Who are these doctors to force their "ethics" upon me?

I work for a magazine publisher and I know that if they asked me to work on their hunting publication, and I refused for any reason, I would be fired. Why are these doctors allowed to continue practicing medicine if they withhold legal treatment to qualified adults who ask for it?

Sorry for the rant, but this really stuck in the old craw. What do you all think of this?

[Christy]

I don't blame you, I'd be pissed, too. "Don't you want children?" That one sticks in my craw, as if we're crazy if we don't.

[superjane]

I'd be pissed off as well, and I'd probably write a scathing letter to hospital administration. And since I often act too impusively, after he finally wrote the prescription, I probably would have made an announcement to every other patient in the waiting room about how incompetant, cold, and uncaring the doctor is.

[Quizeen]

It just sort of blows my mind that doctors can withhold treatment because of personal ethical concerns, but the rest of us mortals have to do whatever we're told by the higher-ups. I also really hate being treated like a child.

In the end everything worked out alright for me, and even if no sane doctors had worked that day I could have gone to a different clinic. But, it really drove home the point about how difficult it can be (and probably is) for younger, more timid women without adequate health insurance who live in more rural areas. It was weird how unconcerned all of the other female staff members seemed to be, too. It seems freaky to be so cavalier about our rights as women. I'm definitely worried about the future of women's health/rights because a lot of other women don't even seem to care.

[thebelovedtree]

Don't these doctors see enough people who should have used a plan B (or a plan A for that mattter) to know that not everyone needs to reproduce, and if you choose not to more power to you? I'm pissed off that you can't get these things over the counter, but now you can be lectured by your doctor? I wouldn't have been a very plesant patient if I were you.

[zoebird]

i think i would have told hte doctor that 1. it's none of his business(re: children); 2. it's none of his business(re:my ethics vs. his); and 3. i have a legal right to the prescription if i ask for it. then, i would ask him not to be a patronizing dick-head. i would tell him that i know who i am, what i want to do with my body, when i want to do it, and what i need to maintain it. I'm a thinking adult, and if he wants to patronize someone, he should do so to his wife and let the rest of us do what we want.

i would definatly write a letter to the administration about BOTH doctors.

[mouse]

I echo what everyone else has said. Patronizing a**holes. :down:

[AnaBanana]

The way the second doctor acted outrages me. Things like "Don't you want children?" are just ridiculous for a doctor to say. And he obviously didn't have any real ethical concerns, since he prescribed it anyway.

That said, I want a career in medicine, and I wouldn't be prescribing emergency contraception or referring women to abortions. There enough ethical grey areas in medicine that doctors often have to make the choice whether to perform certain procedures and prescribe certain medications. Also, there are many religious considerations with this issue especially.

I'm not excusing the rude and patronizing treatment you received from the doctors, but I support the first doctor's right to refuse to do something he doesn't believe in.

[kristadb]

Is this for a "morning after" or "emergency pill"?

I've needed it once. I went to a medi-centre (it was late at night and it dawned on me in post-coital that I forgot to take my pill that morning) and told the doctor. He wrote me a perscription, I went to the pharmacy and the on-duty staff said, "whew! you're lucky. 10 more minutes and we would have all been gone for the night!

I've never heard of a doctor/pharmacy refusing to give out this medication. In fact, I'm not sure if it's legal in Canada to refuse treatment of this nature. I'm going to call my local health department and ask :)

Sorry you went through this :(

ETA: I stand corrected. I called and there are pharmacies and doctors that are ethically allowed to refuse this. However, an ER is required to dispense it. So, at least that's comforting.

I agree with ana that it's their ethics, but that it still disgusting. I don't know what pill they use in the US, but it isn't an "abortion" pill. It prevents pregnancy. It doesn't kill embryos.

[Quizeen]

It was for the morning after pill, the one that can be taken up to 72 hours after intercourse. The common name is "Plan B".

My problem with doctors being allowed to continue working even if their ethics conflict with the law is that the rest of us are not usually afforded that luxury. If I have an ethical problem editing the hunting magazine at my publishing house then I can just start looking for another job. It's far more disturbing that doctors are allowed to flout the law when they hold such sway over our lives. Most of us in the U.S. can't just see any doctor we wish to whenever we wish to, we're bound pretty tightly to a small medical group and the choices become even fewer for lower income and young women.

[CarbLover]

Personally I think Plan B should be available without a prescription. The sooner you take it after unprotected sex, the more effective it is. The FDA was considering doing this but ultimately rejected it because they were worried about teenagers getting ahold of it.

[kristadb]

Most of us in the U.S. can't just see any doctor we wish to whenever we wish to, we're bound pretty tightly to a small medical group and the choices become even fewer for lower income and young women.

Good point. That isn't a reality here as you can find a doctor and get treatment when you need it. (notwithstanding problems w/ homeless people being without their healthcare cards or not being able to find a regular doctor in some cities).

[kristadb]

FYI - this thread spawned a fight at work today :no:

[Cherry Head]

Hmm, well, obviously, if your getting the pill, YOU DON'T WANT CHILDREN! It's crazy that he can doubt your ethics...I woulda slap him upside the head...well, no, not really, but...you get what I'm saying.

Anyways, sorry you had to go through this, I can totally understand your annoyance, it's kinda bothering me too....

ETA: Oh, Krista, the topic of the fight was the morning after pill? Or...? Do tell.

[superjane]

http://www.consciencelaws.org/Examining-Conscience-Issues/Legal/Articles/Legal20.htm

I guess it is legal for doctors to refuse to offer any treatment they find immoral (which I suppose is reasonable), but I didn't know until I read this article that they were also allowed to not refer a patient elsewhere. I thought that they at least had that obligation.

These doctors/pharmacies should have large signs stating this so that patients who need said services know to avoid them. Imagine asking this doctor for the 'plan B' or for an abortion, and he refuses and you have to go to another doctor. Now the first doctor thinks of you as a slut and murderer, all for nothing.

[desolationangel]

you know, at my university's medical school, doctors training to be ob-gyn's cannot receive abortion training on campus, even if they want to. they have to go to an off-campus facility. the reason? THE FOOTBALL STADIUM. that's right, the folks who donated the money for the football stadium had an ultimatum on the donation- that abortion couldn't be taught here. (nevermind that our football team sucks anyway....)

i find this just disgusting; it's not based on the ethics of doctors but on the ethics of some benefactor back in the 70's. sigh.

[Christy]

These doctors/pharmacies should have large signs stating this so that patients who need said services know to avoid them.

I said pretty much the same thing in this thread (http://www.veggieboards.com/boards/showthread.php?t=22662). And they can also not refer you? That is scary. With the HMO rules as they are with primary care physicians and referrals, that could be a problem.

[skunkpumpkin]

I agree with everyone in here. If I were you, I would've ranted to him and everyone I saw, hah.

[kristadb]

I do agree that they have a moral...right to refuse, but there should be big signs, lots of warning, that sort of thing.

[Thalia]

Quizeen- I would be just as po'ed. And I am glad you made the point you made. In my bioethics program we debated this a little bit, and I said I worked at a restaurant where I had to serve meat and could I refuse to do it? Hell no. Why can doctors pick and choose? I no longer work at a restaurant, maybe they should no longer work at the urgent care center.

[Eva-bo-beva]

I said I worked at a restaurant where I had to serve meat and could I refuse to do it? Hell no. Why can doctors pick and choose? I no longer work at a restaurant, maybe they should no longer work at the urgent care center.

The answer to this is quite clear to me...waitresses are not in high demand and do not take a decade of intense training. I don't agree with the way he acted, but I think it should ultimately be his decision, as you can go elsewhere. I think its slightly more comparable to being an owner of a vegetarian restaurant and a customer demanding that you serve them meat. You dont have to do it, and they can go to another restaurant...even if its inconvenient for them to do so.

[zoebird]

i have no problem with a doctor refusing, if s/he did so politely or made the policy known. It seems to me that the staff warned OP that she'd have to wait until another doctor came on to get the prescription. The first doc didn't do any judging, just said "i have an ethical concern related to prescribing such medications" (more or less) which is, IMO, the same as me saying "no, i'm not going to cook meat for thanksgiving, even if grandma prefers it or wants it, because i have ethical qualms with doing so."

it's the second doctor that really gets me; if he does'nt have an ethical problem with prescribing it, an "alright, here you go" and handing her the paper would have been enough. He can keep his patronizing opinions to himself.

in some states, doctors are required by law to "councel" their clients. For abortions in PA, you have to be a first trimester (unless you have medical reason), and you have a 24 hour waiting period. You go to clinic today, then you get all sorts of materials (pro and con abortion and alternatives), then you can make the appointment for the next day. It's not quite "on demand." in our area, the biggest problem is that many doctors will put value judgements on the person (like those when prescribing the "Plan B").

that's what gets me!

[IamJen]

I don't understand the objection (bit OT) to the morning after pill. Pro-lifers usually choose that stance because they believe life begins at conception, but we're talking about a pill that works to *prevent* conception. I don't see how this is different than any other method of birth control?

[kristadb]

Some people argue that the pill will empty the entire contents of the uterus - which may include conception.

[Mskedi]

Ugh. With my health insurance, if my doctor were to say that to me, there would be no other doctor for me to see. :-/

And as for the FDA saying it can't be an OTC drug because teenagers might get a hold of it... there are some students I know where I teach that I wish could have gotten a hold of it. Argh. I'm sorry you had to deal with that, Quizeen. :no: