Pilates & Yoga

[veganprincess]

zoebird:

the main thing is to not think about or worry about what other people can do, and work on what you can do and honor yourself for that.

i will have to remember that! thanks :)

wow, i did not know that there were 6000 yoga poses! it is true that there is always a new pose to learn. i'm always happy when my instructor teaches a new pose, and i do get a little bummed if i can't do it, but now i will just focus on doing my best with the pose like you said.

oh, 2 or 3 mins of meditation sounds fine to me! i think i will try that. i was trying to get myself to do 20 mins.....maybe that's why i never bothered to go on with it. LOL!

[zoebird]

yeah, a lot of people set really high goals for themselves to start with when it comes to meditation--or even a home yoga practice. I tell people, start with a small amount of time. At home, just do one yoga pose each day and really feel it out. it feels good, and in time they just naturally start to add poses to it until they're going for 20 minutes, 30 minutes, an hour, and so on.

The same is true of meditation. starting with 2 or 3 minutes gets you into a habit of practice, and it's a very accessable amount of time. although it's not easy when you start out, the practice sets yu up for increasing time. you may find that one day you don't use your timer and you're able to do 20 minutes or more wihtout even knowing it!

this is what happens to my husband. he's like "i'm going to go meditate for a few minutes" and i'm like 'ok' and then 2 hours later i go up there and he's still meditating. I know that he wanted to get some work done, so i talk to him. he's like "that was a nice 10 minutes!" and i say "ten minutes--try 2 hours!" then he gets fussy because he has less time for something else. LOL so, now he uses a timer to stop himself. go figure. :)

but then, he's been meditating for almost ten years.

[veganprincess]

zoebird:
that's quite funny! (the story about your husband) ok, i'll start slow and not expect too much in too little time.

it seems like we've been hogging this thread! oops!

[CarbLover]

I just started taking yoga and pilates at a studio near my house. I'm really trying to get back in tune with my body and more physically fit. I'm pretty uncoordinated so I need a teacher to help me do these things properly. I can only take classes three days a week now, because I need a day in between to recuperate. Pilates is hard on my stomach and back. My stomach is pretty weak so sometimes I use my back muscles when I'm not supposed to. I like the beginner pilates class but unfortunately that is only once per week. The mixed ability classes are much harder, and kind of embarassing because I always need help. We were doing some exercises with one leg while balancing the other leg on a foam roller (a cylinder thing) and I kept falling off. The teacher had to hold my roller still so I wouldn't roll off the whole time. It was so embarassing.

I took my first yoga class on wednesday. After reading a bit about it I was expecting it to be relaxing. Well it's nearly two days later and I can still barely walk, and bending my legs is excrutiatingly painful. Most of the day was focused on balancing on one leg for a really LONG time. oh. my. hamstrings.

Here are some of the things we did:
a combination between a chair pose and tree pose, with our hands in prayer position. (sitting on a chair that does not exist, except balanced on one leg)
a revolved side angle pose and extended side angle pose, except we lifted our back leg into the air (think of a runner's stretch, except your back leg is in the air. this hurts more than words can describe)
downward dog, except we lifted one of our legs into the air
bridge, which really isn't that hard except when your hamstrings have turned to jelly

I don't remember the rest, or the names for it. except for child's pose. I love child's pose. I never want to leave child's pose.

All in all I like pilates better because we move more. We use some of the same poses as yoga but it's not nearly as hard because we don't have to stay in them for nearly as long. I'm not sure I can handle another yoga class. I'm not sure if I can even go to pilates as planned tomorrow morning because I'm walking like a partly crippled 80 year old grandma at the moment.

[zoebird]

it's better if you go back to class as soon as possible. this will help you get the blood flow back. If you wait until you're not sore, you'll just put yourself back where you are now when you take your next class.

also, the teachers like to help (i'm a teacher, and i love to help), so it's not a problem if you're struggling--don't be embarassed!

it sounds like your yoga class was a pretty tough routine. you can always modify your poses (bent knees, etc), just ask the teacher for modifications. s/he should be able to give you many. :) Also, you may want to try a vinyasa yoga class (or a "flow" class). it sounds like you did a slower yoga class, and those are harder because you do hold each pose longer.

have fun! be well and happy!

[vegansurfer]

I want to start doing yoga. I just got an exercise ball which came with a pilates video, and I definately want to learn more of those. I started pole vaulting, and with that it came alarmingly obvious how badly I need to get better stomach muscle.

I took a 2 week long yoga class 2 years ago in pe and loved it. none of it was hard, I didn't feel even the slightest sore like you guys mention, but I did feel relaxed.

I have asthma which I am determined to beat. My brother told me one time while watching me role around on the floor having an asthma attack that I need to start doing yoga to learn to breath.
I am not sure if I will be able to do anything of this genre yet because I am still recovering from a badly broken collarbone, but I am going to try. Looking at yogajournal at the moment.

[zoebird]

you can work on some gentle pranayama--particularly three-part yogic breathing. i think that yoga journal has an article about it. if they don't check out yoga international (yimag.com--i think). also, iyengar has a book called Light on Pranayama that is excellent.

pranayama--or energy management/breath management--is what really helps work with asthema. what also works is discovering the triggers (allergens) and avoiding them. Animal hair and dander, over-processed dairy products, pollens and environmental pollutants are the most common.

after your collarbone heals, you should look into classes in your are. yogajournal has a listing, as does yoga alliance (yogaalliance.org). yogafinder and yogadirectory and yoga.com are other places to look.

all the best!

[Moonflower]

Vegan surfer - I have asthma too, and swimming helped it immensely!!!! I swam competitively the fist 18 years of my life and I was able to hold my breath and breathe deeper than anyone else.

there is a pool here where i live and i still try to swim. I am getting into yoga now, but I am having problems finding a good mat. the mat i have is too small, and when i stretch, my legs go of the sides. It is also slippery on the carpet. Using just the carpet is better, but still slippery.

someone mentioned a towel, which i will have to try. Any other suggestions?

[*Star*Lass*]

So which (pilates or yoga) is recommended for a beginner? I've just been checking out another messageboard and someone said they'd been doing yoga for a few years and only started pilates 6 months ago and the benefits have been outstanding.

Are there any decent videos for either?

[zoebird]

the best way to learn is from a teacher, regardless of which of these two traditions. it's much easier to learn with a teacher, and that way you know that you're doing it right.

also, a beginner can do either practice. both are set up for all levels, so it's not a big deal. you can start either.

the main reason why people choose pilates over yoga is often the perspective. pilates and yoga will give you the same benefits (depending upon the style of yoga), but pilates takes a more western approach (more fitness, less meditation). yoga takes a more spiritual/eastern approach. so, you should choose the one that suits you more. Some people are not interested in the added benefits of yoga (stress reduction, meditation, calming etc), so pilates suits their needs better. :)

[*Star*Lass*]

Well i just bought a handy little Yoga book today with 50 classical poses in it, 3 regimes, and some info.

I tryed some yoga a few days ago and my whole body was killing me the next day!! It's gota be good!

[zoebird]

that sounds good. books are often easier than videos to work with. i think so anyway. :) i like light on yoga by iyengar. it's a good one. :)

[*Star*Lass*]

I think i saw that book when i was looking. I got Secrets of Yoga by Jennie Bittleston. It was only £5, so cheap enough. :)

[zoebird]

it's nice when you get something inexpensive. :) light on yoga is an intense book. can be hard to use in the beginning too. hopefully, you'll find a class that you can take. many yoga studios offer the first class for free (call around) and then will have work-study for people who want to take yoga but can't afford it. For instance, you may be in charge of cleaning the floors after each class you take to get your free yoga classes. i did that for years. :) actually, i think i've only paid for about 15 yoga classes in my life. LOL

[JavaPrincess]

Im about to start a pilates class at school. my cousin showed me a pilates video once but i dont know if this is the same, there seem to be different types from the posts here.... im a little nervous...
hers looks really tough on the body. I tried a few of the poses sans the ball with her and wow resistance city. when i tried to replicate it at home.... the ball just went flying....
I dont think the class im taking uses balls.

as for yoga, I have 2 videos, one is a Total Yoga, power yoga-esque video that i dont like much, the other is a great stress relief, AM-PM Yoga. I highly recommend it I bought it on DVD so its 3 sets in one.

[Jeffer]

I saw this post and was just curious how many guys other than me practice pilates and after a quick scan it looks like only one. I may be wrong though because sometimes user names aren't gender specific. I know I've been the only one in my classes at the Y for about two years now. I've talked to a lot of guys about it but I think they just can't get over the stigma behind it that "it's only for girls" or "it's not a manly exercise". Yet I'd love to see some of them hold the plank with slow push-ups inbetween for five minutes. :lol:
I do it four times a week and just love it!! I've never felt this good and I'd recomend it to anyone.

Jeffer

[Jeffer]

Im about to start a pilates class at school. my cousin showed me a pilates video once but i dont know if this is the same, there seem to be different types from the posts here.... im a little nervous...
hers looks really tough on the body. I tried a few of the poses sans the ball with her and wow resistance city. when i tried to replicate it at home.... the ball just went flying....
I dont think the class im taking uses balls.

as for yoga, I have 2 videos, one is a Total Yoga, power yoga-esque video that i dont like much, the other is a great stress relief, AM-PM Yoga. I highly recommend it I bought it on DVD so its 3 sets in one.

The nice thing you'll find out about pilates is that it can be as difficult as you want to make it and you can go at your own pace.
The big key with it past typical exercises is that you do all the movements slowly (in slow motion) then your not letting momentum carry you and it forces you to use and discover muscles in you body that you never knew existed before. After trying pilates, for example, you'll never do another regular sit-up again.
Using a ball just adds a different dimension to it. Basically what you have to do is learn the principles of pilates and then you can apply them to other forms of exersice.

Good luck and have fun.
Jeffer

[zoebird]

same thing works with yoga.

also, there are different "kinds" of pilates in that some teachers teach it differently from others, even though it's all basicly the same. Also, some people use various forms of pilates equipment, too, which makes it seem different.

i always end up with lots of men in my yoga classes. :)

[CarbLover]

From my experience pilates is a lot harder with the ball for most exercises. Although doing roll ups on the ball is pretty fun once you get the hang of it.


I saw this post and was just curious how many guys other than me practice pilates and after a quick scan it looks like only one. I may be wrong though because sometimes user names aren't gender specific. I know I've been the only one in my classes at the Y for about two years now. I've talked to a lot of guys about it but I think they just can't get over the stigma behind it that "it's only for girls" or "it's not a manly exercise". Yet I'd love to see some of them hold the plank with slow push-ups inbetween for five minutes.
I do it four times a week and just love it!! I've never felt this good and I'd recomend it to anyone.

I've never seen a guy in any of my pilates classes either. I think there's this theory that using the body as resistance is not "manly," whereas lifting weights is--the only notable exception being push-ups. I think all these hang-ups men have about "manliness" are completely stupid.

[Jeffer]

same thing works with yoga.

also, there are different "kinds" of pilates in that some teachers teach it differently from others, even though it's all basicly the same. Also, some people use various forms of pilates equipment, too, which makes it seem different.

i always end up with lots of men in my yoga classes. :)

I found the most difficult thing that I had to do when I first started pilates was that I had to learn to breath all over again. It was bizzare because it was opposite to any other type of exercise or sport I ever played.

I got interested in pilates when my knees and ankles started giving out on me from past injuries from the high impact stuff I'd alway done and it has really improved my knees big time. My ankles are a lost cause I think. I bet a lot of the good has to do with flexability. When I first started I could hardly touch my ankles and now I can put my head between my legs with my palms on the floor behind me. My back is stronger and my posture is so much better. I now find it uncomfortable to slouch in a chair or on the floor while sitting and I feel stronger in many ways from when I was younger and "in better shape".

Also being in my fourties now I started looking at older people and noticing the problems they have getting around. The big thing I've always noticed is they have no flexability or strength. When I'm in my seventies and eighties I still want to get around well.

Jeffer

[zoebird]

pilates and yoga are great for that. there's this great yoga book by vanda scarvelli. i can't remember the title now. anyway, there's a picture of her in it at age 98 one her back with both feet behind her head (crossed) and her hands clasped behind her back. it's called supta yoginasana (reclining yogin's pose). there are also pictures of her in really deep back bends.

the awesome thing is, vanda started yoga in her 50s! she died at 99, but she was not really sick or anyway. pretty doggone amazing!

[kpickell]

Pilates are definetely cooler than ninjas.

[epski]

http://www.latimes.com/news/yahoo/la-he-yogaworks10sep10,1,6147902.story

COLUMN ONE
Assuming the Profit Position
Two entrepreneurs are establishing a national chain of yoga studios. Critics consider such commercialization an intolerable stretch.

By Hilary E. MacGregor
Times Staff Writer

September 10, 2004

When software was hot, they worked at an educational software company for kids. And when the Internet went wild, they worked together at one of the earliest search engines. When that boom busted, entrepreneurs George Lichter and Rob Wrubel went searching for the next big thing.

They looked for a wide-open market, ripe to be plucked. And all the while they worked through their own stress-related ailments with deep breathing, sun salutations and downward-facing dogs.

Then it hit them what their next business should be: yoga.

That was 2001. With a group of investors, they began snapping up some of the nation's oldest, most prestigious yoga studios, including Yoga Works in Santa Monica and the Center for Yoga in the Larchmont district, considered the first eclectic yoga studio in Los Angeles. They recently bought five studios in Manhattan, including four Be Yoga studios. That brings the total to 15 so far. They plan to open a new studio in West Hollywood this fall and are talking to studio owners across the country.

Their goal: a national chain of yoga studios that, they say, will feature well-trained teachers and high-quality classes while preserving the authentic, community feel of a neighborhood studio.

Lichter and Wrubel don't offer many details of how they will go about that, however, and already some yogis — as yoga practitioners are known — are saying that the businessmen's plan for a branded national chain marks the beginning of the end for yoga as they know it. A corporate yoga business, they say, could drive many small studios out of business, squelch the creativity of yoga instruction and fuel the growing commercialism of what for many students is an intensely spiritual practice.

*HUGE snip*

Lichter, 53, and Wrubel, 43, are almost studiously laid-back, and they dress the part for their foray into the yoga world. They are fit and look younger than their ages. During meetings with a reporter, Lichter, a former entertainment lawyer, wore Prana pants and a turtle pendant on a leather cord around his neck. Wrubel has an open face and the rumpled look of a perpetual graduate student that belies his business savvy.

After Yoga Works acquired the Center for Yoga, Lichter and Wrubel tried to assuage fears and preempt the questions and rumors they knew would come.

"Do we have plans on becoming a Wal-Mart or Starbucks of Yoga?" they asked rhetorically in a four-page, single-spaced letter to students at the Center for Yoga. "Definitely not. This is probably the hardest thing for us to hear."

That has not stopped some students and teachers from grumbling about the coming of McYoga.

"To have a brand is to be recognizable," says Mark Stephens, who invited Lichter and Wrubel to buy his financially troubled L.A. Yoga Center this spring. "McDonald's has the golden arches, Bikram has 26 poses, and Yoga Works has a blend. Yoga is becoming hardened. What was once fun becomes homogenized."

Yoga Works bought the studio, but Stephens had to sign a contract not to teach yoga in Los Angeles County for two years.

At the Center for Yoga, changes can already be seen. The studio store is slicker and better stocked, there is a new station where patrons can listen to CDs, and walls and tables are papered with advertisements for Yoga Works events.

Most instructors will have to go through Yoga Works teacher training, even those who have taught for decades. The intensive training includes the Yoga Works approaches to anatomy and philosophy and how to teach and sequence a class and read a student's body.

"If they make this a standardized practice with a box mentality, I don't think they will produce free-spirited teachers," says Subhadra Griffiths, a teacher at Yoga Works and founder of Yoga Angels, a program that provides instruction for children. "I don't think they will produce people who are self-empowered and strong and [who] will take yoga — the art — to the next level."

Lichter and Wrubel are "really nice guys," says Frank White, 84, a teacher at the Center for Yoga known for his enthusiasm and devoted following. But, he adds, "I have the feeling that if Mr. Iyengar himself came from India, they would probably have him go to teacher training."

Wrubel says, "It is not like people will have to retrain from the beginning. It will be more like a professional course, modified and adapted to the experience of these teachers."

*small snip*

Even yogis such as Randi Beck of Orange County and Alan Finger in New York, whose studios were doing well, say they were relieved to sell to Lichter and Wrubel.

"It is too hard to be a complete yogi and help people and direct them and help them evolve, and to think about how to pay the rent and how to fix the floors," said Finger, a patriarch of the yoga movement who is often referred to as the first yoga millionaire.

Many studios would likely welcome a buyout offer, says Julie Deife, publisher of L.A. Yoga magazine. "With the economy the way it is," she says, "I don't think there are a lot of studios that, if they were given a big, fat check, wouldn't take it."

*modest snip*

Wrubel and Lichter liken their business model to Whole Foods, the health food chain that brought organic produce to many communities.

"In some ways, I feel like we are pioneers," says Wrubel. "We are trying to figure this out on the fly, set against a backdrop of globalization and a lot of other things. We are part of a revolutionary change in America, in the business and cultural world."

Ganga White, now owner of the White Lotus Foundation in Santa Barbara, has watched the transformation of yoga in the United States since the 1970s and believes the practice is better than ever today, because of the constant change.

"Yoga is an evolving, changing science," he says. "I think it will grow into something far beyond anything we can envision. We are in the caterpillar stage, and we have a butterfly growing. I'm sure Yoga Works thinks they are the butterfly. But we don't know that yet."

Copyright 2004 Los Angeles Times

[zoebird]

epski

thanks for reprinting (sort of) the article in the times. While i would have LOVED financial backing for my yoga studio, and i understand what Finger was talking about (worrying about rent, etc, while still trying to stay true to the practice and teahcing), i also am concerned as other yogins about this becoming a "hardened" practice.

i know that there are branded yoga practices out there, and many places think that this is the yoga of the future and the yoga that leads to success in business. WHile this may be true (from a business standpoint), i think it is very hard on teachers.

In order to teach bikram style yoga, or to have abikram studio, you must teach the poses in the exact way that bikram and his primary teachers teach it. Heat, humidity, timing, verbage. exactly the same. I found that was happening with Baptiste style studios too (part of my back ground), and it sounds like it's happening at Yoga Works and similar places.

I have over 500 hrs of training; 10 yrs of experience teaching. I have my own philosophy, my own methodology. I know how to "read" bodies. I know how to reach my students with my voice, my sequencing, etc. I don't have the same sequences every class, and i absolutely REFUSE to teach that way.

when my studio went by the way-side, i had opportunities at many other local studios (truth is, i have quite a devoted and interested following of more than 300 students and each studio would love to add those students to their mailing lists). i spoke (and am speaking with) many of them. Although most of them are small, independent businesses, the teachers running them are adamant about fitting into "their style" and "their philosophy" and "their sequences." i think this is fine for people who "naturally fit."

for instance, one studio (opened this past saturday), is a power yoga studio. all of the teachers are women; they all teach different "types" of power yoga. they all have fitness backgrounds (aerobics instructors, personal trainers, trainers for sports teams, and coaches). They all have ONLY experienced power yoga classes and training, and that's what they teach with a very fitness-minded perspective. I think this is fabulous for these women with common ideas about yoga and fitness to come together and teach together. But, if i taught for them (and they did approach me), they wanted me to change my classes to a certain methodology--more fitness minded and less philosophical (no sanskrit, no prayer, no extended meditation--no longer than 1 minute--and readings from certain perspectives only)--and make sure that it was "tough enough for them to break a sweat." well, that's a sore thumb--at least, i'd stick out more than a bit!

another studio is more "traditional" in that the main teacher is from an iyengar/sivananda background and the teachers she's hired are either A. trained by her or B. astanga teachers. She likes her astanga teachers to teach "pure" astanga, which means teaching a very specific sequence of postures (like bikram really). Then, her sivananda teachers (and her of course) teach from her ideas, philosophies and scripts. She freaks if she feels that you "deviate too much from our methodology and perspective." i'm not really clear on what her perspective is, but nevertheless, i don't think i'd fit in there either.

so, the difficult thing, as an independent and experienced teacher like myself, is finding a studio that will let me teach *my* thing from *my* experience and *my* training and so on. This is really what yoga teaching is. You learn from your teacher, but then, you teach your way. you don't teach your teacher's way--you really can't, as you're not your teacher. i mean, i can't be someone else, i can't live someone else's experience, so i can't teach it. I can only teach mine.

What i've found, then, in many of these instances that the yoga teaching is rather hollow. Many bikram classes are good--if the teacher teaches from him/her self, rather than the script. Yet, most bikram classes are like bikram tapes and relatively empty. Many baptiste power yoga classes run like aerobics tapes. Astanga classes can be empty too. I find that, for new teachers, it's a great way to learn how to teach, methodology and sequencing theory, but when you get your legs (or voice, as it is), you should teach from yoruself. If you don't, it starts to sound hollow and repetitive.

I also find that for the "hobby-ist teacher," sequences and scripts are great. These people LOVE yoga and LOVE to teach yoga--once or twice a week. They offer a quality class to their students, a good experience. Even if it is from a script. WHy? because they don't have the spend hours (like me, on average of 5 a day) thinking about yoga asana, theory, meditation, scriptural study, study of anatomy, etc, and they are not bored with the sequence because they don't teach it often. so, they give good instruction in one style a couple of times a week. They have a blast, their classes are fun, and their students enjoy it. That's all great stuff.

But for me, as a teacher, it's not enough. part of the reason why i was ready to leave PYW (before and when i was fired without good cause), was because they were saying, you must teach this script, this way, and that keeps it real, keeps it fresh. Well, i found it empty and stale. Students who came occassionally were fine, but when you're saying the same thing, 1.5 hours, 6-10 times per week, you start to loose your mind. you stop teaching, and start just reciting. I might as well have put a CD recording of my voice in the CD player and walked around and assisted. Would have been the same.

So, i think for me, the problem with the corporate setting may be the problem that we're already having getting worse--teachers being pushed out of studios if they won't get into tiny boxes. but then, free floating has been a great thing for me. :)

perhaps this is a negative response to the situation. perhaps it will allow real, huge growth. you never know. perhaps it's like winter in yoga (or the beginning of it) that will lead to an explosive spring. we'll see. :)

[MezzoEmi]

i do bikram yoga as mny times a week as possible. i have lost some weight and my artritis is better.

I've heard good things about bikram yoga...mainly that it's a REEEEALLY tough workout with the same calming benefits (somehow) as conventional yoga.

I'd really like to join a class and have been looking for one in the Waco, TX area.