Sugar

[bluegrrrl79]

Something that bugs me, is when people here say things like "it's not vegan because it has sugar in it" or "sugar isn't vegan". Guess what, sugar is made from plants. I've never seen it made from cows. Therefore it IS vegan. Ok sure, lactose is a sugar that is not vegan, but I mean regular sugar. I understand that some people want to avoid it because of the way it's made, but that doesn't mean it's not vegan, it just means you're avoiding something. It's like saying my mail isn't vegan because my lettercarrier uses a leather bag to hold it. Ok just had to get that off my chest!

[Peter Parker]

agrees.

[bluegrrrl79]

agrees.
Yay someone agrees with me! :rockon:

[ebola]

different people employ words differently.

[Artichoke47]

I make sure I buy organic sugar or Florida Crystals, so I don't worry about the bone char thing in my own cooking.

I do find myself trying to avoid products with sugar in them, but not necessarily because it might be "not vegan." I try to buy foods that are naturally sweetened or sweetened with something less refined. Further, I don't buy many processed foods, anyway, so it rarely comes up.

[bluegrrrl79]

I make sure I buy organic sugar or Florida Crystals, so I don't worry about the bone char thing in my own cooking.

I do find myself trying to avoid products with sugar in them, but not necessarily because it might be "not vegan." I try to buy foods that are naturally sweetened or sweetened with something less refined. Further, I don't buy many processed foods, anyway, so it rarely comes up.
Well see that's fine, and I'm not knocking people who avoid sugar, but just irritates me when people refer to sugar/sugar products as being nonvegan.

[Artichoke47]

And everything else I buy is mostly organic as well, so it's not like I'm making a special exception for sugar ONLY because of the bone char issue.

[beth]

I see where you're coming from and I totally agree. However, I can also see why some people might not consider it vegan. The bone char thing does alter the sugar, whereas the mailman's leather sack doesn't alter the mail it carries. Also, when you buy refined sugar, you're voting for it, in a way, and that creates a demand for it. But that's not my problem with it; it's just plain unhealthy.

[bluegrrrl79]

I see where you're coming from and I totally agree. However, I can also see why some people might not consider it vegan. The bone char thing does alter the sugar, whereas the mailman's leather sack doesn't alter the mail it carries. Also, when you buy refined sugar, you're voting for it, in a way, and that creates a demand for it. But that's not my problem with it; it's just plain unhealthy.
Yes but it doesn't put animal products into it. There is no animals bones in the sugar.

[Reda]

What is this bone char thing?

I only have danish sugar that is made from sugar beets, so maybe bone char has nothing to do with this kind of sugar and that's why I haven't heard of it?

[MsRuthieB]

Yes but it doesn't put animal products into it. There is no animals bones in the sugar.


Do me a favor and go research sugar and bone char filters. Domino uses bone char filters to 'clean' the sugar and I know Domino is a big producer. I use there off brand, which is Jack Frost. That isn't processed through a bone char filter.

[Frost]

What is this bone char thing?

I only have danish sugar that is made from sugar beets, so maybe bone char has nothing to do with this kind of sugar and that's why I haven't heard of it?

Bone char made from animal bones. Charcoal basically (sometimes called activated carbon I think).

It's also commonly used in water filters (aquariums & purifiers)and air cleaners.

Since there are a variety of charcoals and companies are not required to list the type, you wont know what they use unless you ask and they feel like answering.

[MsRuthieB]

Here's some threads on sugar.

http://www.veggieboards.com/boards/showthread.php?t=2584&highlight=sugar
http://www.veggieboards.com/boards/showthread.php?t=17840&highlight=sugar
http://www.veggieboards.com/boards/showthread.php?t=17367&highlight=sugar
http://www.veggieboards.com/boards/showthread.php?t=16148&highlight=sugar
http://www.veggieboards.com/boards/showthread.php?t=13932&highlight=sugar
http://www.veggieboards.com/boards/showthread.php?t=5538&highlight=sugar
http://www.veggieboards.com/boards/showthread.php?t=3908&highlight=sugar

this one is specifically sugar and bone char : http://www.veggieboards.com/boards/showthread.php?t=3736&highlight=sugar

really good sugar info in those threads.

ETA: Gosh, that looks like overkill after I posted it. I'll leave it like that anyhow just in case anyone wants to read up.

[bluegrrrl79]

Do me a favor and go research sugar and bone char filters. Domino uses bone char filters to 'clean' the sugar and I know Domino is a big producer. I use there off brand, which is Jack Frost. That isn't processed through a bone char filter.
Why would I need to do more research on it? Yes it does clean it...how does that put animal products in the sugar or turn it into an animal product?

[Loki]

I'd be happy to call sugar vegan. It can sometimes be made with bone char, but that's something so small i wouldn't consider it worth worrying about.

[Frost]

Why would I need to do more research on it? Yes it does clean it...how does that put animal products in the sugar or turn it into an animal product?

Well the definition of vegan by almost all vegan sites and including the dictionary is "one that does not eat or use animal products".

While you wouldnt exactly be eating it, you would be indirectly supporting its use.

[kpickell]

QUOTE=VeganOutreach

http://veganoutreach.org/starterpack/qa.html#isrefinedsugarvegan

Is refined sugar vegan?
It depends on how you define 'vegan.' Refined sugars do not contain any animal products, and so by an ingredients-based definition of vegan, refined sugar is vegan. However, some refined sugar is processed with animal bone char. The charcoal is used to remove color, impurities, and minerals from sugar. The charcoal is not 'in' the sugar, but is used in the process as as a filter. Thus by a process-based definition of vegan, refined sugar may not be considered vegan. For those who would prefer not to use refined sugar, there are several alternatives: raw, turbinado, beet sugar, succanat, date sugar, fructose, barley malt, rice syrup, corn syrup, molasses, and maple syrup.

However, if one accepts a process-based definition of vegan, then many other familiar products would also not be considered vegan. For instance, steel and vulcanized rubber are produced using animal fats and, in many areas, groundwater and surface water is filtered through bone charcoal filters. So, is a box of pasta that contains no animal products, but has transported to the store in a steel truck on rubber wheels and then cooked in boiling water at your home, vegan? Under a process-based definition, possibly not. But according to such a definition, it would be difficult to find any product in this country that is "vegan."

There is another point about definitions that comes to mind. Perhaps, in the above example, the pasta maker also makes an egg pasta. The same machinery is used, and traces of egg are in the 'vegan' pasta; would the pasta not be vegan?

Again, we recommend that vegans concentrate their attention on the most obvious animal ingredients and the true meaning of veganism. In our experience, concentrating on processing or on trace ingredients can make a vegan diet appear exceedingly difficult and dissuade people from adopting it.
[/QUOTE]

[MsRuthieB]

Thanks KPickell. That's what I was avoiding typing out (hence the suggestion to research). For some reason it didn't occur to me to do a copy/paste.

[epski]

My two cents (perhaps repeating). A product that is otherwise vegan but is produced using animal products does create a demand for non-vegan products by the manufacturer, so the end purchaser is indirectly creating greater demand for the use of animal products. That is why many consider bone char-refined sugar to be not vegan.

My personal opinion, after reading up on it a lot, is that it can be very difficult to avoid refined sugar as an ingredient, and you don't know where it was sourced anyway, so it's best to try to avoid bone char-processed sugar primarily when buying sugar by the pound or whatever.

Refined sugar is also bad for your health in many, many regards.

[bluegrrrl79]

My two cents (perhaps repeating). A product that is otherwise vegan but is produced using animal products does create a demand for non-vegan products by the manufacturer, so the end purchaser is indirectly creating greater demand for the use of animal products. That is why many consider bone char-refined sugar to be not vegan.

My personal opinion, after reading up on it a lot, is that it can be very difficult to avoid refined sugar as an ingredient, and you don't know where it was sourced anyway, so it's best to try to avoid bone char-processed sugar primarily when buying sugar by the pound or whatever.

Refined sugar is also bad for your health in many, many regards.
Yes, and it may support that, but that's like saying vegan products by P&G aren't vegan because that company tests on animals/has other products that contain animal ingrediants.

[Sevenseas]

Yes, and it may support that, but that's like saying vegan products by P&G aren't vegan because that company tests on animals/has other products that contain animal ingrediants.

Well, if, for example, some cosmetics product doesn't contain animal ingredients but is tested on animals, I'd say it's unvegan.

[MsRuthieB]

If you fry your veggie burger (the vegan variety) on a grill with other burgers and the animal juices get on your burger, is it still a vegan burger? Some would say yes, some would say no (ok, maybe that's not the best example but you get my point).

It's a matter of opinion. Seems to me that what's it's boiled down to for you (bluegrrl) here with the sugar issue. I don't know that any arguement you could present would convince me that refined sugar processed through a bone char filter is vegan. I'm of the opinion it isn't whereas you are of the opinion it is. So be it.

[epski]

Well, if, for example, some cosmetics product doesn't contain animal ingredients but is tested on animals, I'd say it's unvegan.

Exactly. Vegan more or less = less harm to animals. Animal testing is non-vegan under that commonly accepted concept of veganism.

[kpickell]

I believe the comment was talking about vegan products that are NOT tested on animals, but which are owned by companies that do animal tests on other products.

That'd be vegan, imo.

[Chook]

If your government would only let in our lovely, vegan, Aussie sugar you wouldn't have this problem. :sunny: