Weight concerns... I don't weight enough!?

[soilman]

Kreeli writes:
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to try and force yourself to adhere to some other form, weight or shape .. through rigorous eating and/or exercise routines, is almost like trying to fight nature, and will lead only to frustration.
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It is quite possible to make changes in shape, within certain limits. Also, the range of limitation varies from individual to indiviudal; it is genetic.

For example you can add musle mass or bone mass by stressing them. They grow in response to stress, but in some people they respond more quickly or to a greater degree, in response to stress.

Androgens that control secondary sex characteristics allow males to, generlly, respond more quicky and to a greater degree, to muscle stress, by building more muscle. It is indeed damage to muscle that occurs, and scar tissue that forms. Females can do the same amount of weight lifteing and generally not grow as much new muscle. There is also a considerable difference from male to male and female to female. And in fact some females will put on more muscle than some males. But statistacly males put on more muscle.

The limits to which muscle will grow can be altered by making body alterations using various ingested or injected substances. Injected androgens can have quite a noticable effect in enabling anyone to have a greater upper limit on how much their muscles will grow in response to stress. At the cost of organ toxicity, and organ changes, if use more than sparingly.

But outside of using such substances, or surgery, there is still a noticable amount we can change our bodies -- simply by dietary changes combined with resistance training. You will have to continue adhering to an altered diet and altered exercise program in order to adhere to an altered shape. But if you are willing to make "permanent" changes in diet and exercise, you can experience "permanent" changes in body shape. Though not completely, as in males particularly, adrogens that allow muscle increase in younger men, may decrease in older men, and even if they keep the same diet and exercise routine, they will tend to increase in weight and convert muscle to fat, as their adrogen output decreases.

Yes, both males and females have male hormones and female hormones. Sometimes it is the relative amount that differs, rather than the particulars of which hormones are present.

[Vegankat]

I gained about 8 pounds this past year. :( I lost 15 when I turned vegan 3 years ago. I gained because I was inundated with schoolwork and had no time to do my exercise. This year is looking to be the same way. Damn it all. I want to weigh 110 again. Poop.

I found that once my body became used to my diet, I could maintain a healthy body weight. Give it time, I say.

[zoebird]

OK, everyone has mentioned weight training, and here is the way to do it. And, i'll be honest with you, it's your distance walking that is actually keeping your weight down. Yes, it is. I promise you, it is.

Now, most of us are busy people, so working out, or finding time for it is difficult. I highly recommend "hardgainer" or "high intensity" training. It's made for body types (and metabolisms) like yours. My fiance had a similar situation. He was 5 feet, 7 inches and weighed 118 lbs. Today, after 7 years of consistant training, he's a lean, mean 165-170 lbs. He is an omnivore, but it's not necessary to be one. He is dairy free, and eats meat, just for clarification.

Now, our/his basic work outs started out like so:

Twice a week:

day one:
Squats
bench press
row
calf raises
weighted crunches

day two
dead lifts
chin ups (or pull downs, depending upon whether or not you can do chins)
overhead presses (military press)
side bends
pulley crunches

Now, hardgainer method is such that, you move as much weight as you can in only a few reps (10 to 12 reps). You do a warm up set (about 4 to 6 reps at a much lower weight), and then two regular sets at the highest weight you can manage. Eventually, you'll work up to what they call "working to failure" meaning you put as much weight on as you can and you attempt to rep to twelve. sometimes, you only make it to 4. you "fail" but never worry, you're getting stronger and more muscluar.

The average "hard gainer" work out takes roughly 30-45 minutes a day. There are even one day routines that you can do, as some people only have 30 minutes a week to dedicate to this sort of high intensity training.

Your dietary needs will change too. It's likely that you already have high caloric needs. Well, increase your caloric intake. Use fresh, 100% juices (fruit and vegetable), soy protien powder, nuts and nut butters, seets, and whole and sprouted grains. If you feel comfortable consuming eggs, consume them. Lots of tofu, seitan, soy milk, legumes of various sort.

For added help, check out Hardgainer.com. They're not a vegan web site. Most of the people there are not vegetarian orvegan. But, my fiance Ryan Rasmussen and his mentor will help you out if you look for him specifically. He'll share with you until the cows come home (for ever). I get endlessly bored with it. :) but of course, he gets endlessly bored with yoga, so there. ;)

Hope this helps!

[zoebird]

also to relate to what kreeli said:

i think that it is both true and false. I think that a great measure of it is true. There are many people who are very unhappy with themselves, their bodies, and will subject it to all kinds of torture. And there are those who use excuses to remain unhealthy ("i'm big boned", for example).

But, there are also those who enjoy exercise of certain types, or diets of certain types, even if they do seem extreme to other people. For example, i LOVE being vegan and find it to be interesting and fun. Most people consider it an extremely rigorous diet that is annoying at least and frustrating at best. I LOVE todo yoga every day. I practice a particularly rigorous form of yoga. many people think that i'm crazy to do and enjoy the form of yoga that i enjoy. Benefit--i look great and i'm both strong and flexible.

my fiance enjoys doing his rigorous work outs. he loves calculating his weights and his food intake and muttering to himself about how to improve. he loves the changes to his body that he's made. I think that he loved his body before too, but he wanted to try a new, more balanced form of exercise (he was a competative distance runner for many years, and when he tried weight training to help him heal an injury, he was hooked!). He took up weights and triathlon training, and then ultimately found that he enjoyed the weight training and it's benefits more than the triathlon stuff. But, to each their own.

So, i think kreeli is right, to a certain extent, about many people and how so many of us have self-loathing in mayn ways. But there are others who are interested in these things, the changes that they bring, and how they appear to themselves. We must be mindful that we do not always read or know the minds and hearts of others, and should seek to accept people as they are--whether or not they are doing something for a "good" reason.

[soilman]

Those of us who are not already quite familiar with weight training have no idea what any of these terms mean.

Squats
bench press
row
calf raises
weighted crunches

dead lifts
chin ups (or pull downs, depending upon whether or not you can do chins)
overhead presses (military press)
side bends
pulley crunches

[soilman]

I am 5 feet 11 inches tall and weigh 142 pounds. I have been near this same weight for the last 25 years. It 2 pounds more than I weighed when I graduated from highschool. I initially went up to 170 pounds by the time I was about 20, then down to 110, for about a year, and then I decided to go back up to 140. My current weight is between 138 and 146. It can be 139 one day, and 2 or 3 days later be 145, and then 2 or 3 days later go back down to 139.

In the gardening season, my exercise consists of walking, and walking pulling a cart behind me, filled with various things, and lifting huge amounts of plant matter and compost, with a garden fork or shovel, moving it from one place to another. I spend maybe about 3 hours a week doing forking or shoveling pre-compost or compost. During the winter I take an occaisional 1/2 hour walk, maybe once a week. The change in exercise has no effect on my weight. I stay a precise 142 plus or minus 4 pounds.

This garden season I have not been gardening. But my weight did not change one iota. It still varies the same way, from day to day, between 138 and 146. I am certain that no matter what exercise I were to do -- unless I intentionally spent time thinking over how I was going to get more food, and made a point of eating it -- my weight would not increase beyond the same 142 plus or minus 4.

[soilman]

I remember the 10 years or so that I swam 3 days a week, 40 minutes a day, 3 months per year. My weight did not vary one bit. Nor was there much of a change in the appearance of my body. I simply became able to swim longer distances at the same number of miles per hour, and become the same or less tired and worn out, when I finished.

[soilman]

To me, my weight has nothing to do with how much exercise I do. It is all a matter of how much food I can get.

I could easily go up to 170 -- if I wanted to. Or go down to 110 -- if I wanted to But I've decided to be 142, so that is what I am.

[holly golightly]

110!?!?!

[Kreeli]

i think soilman sounds so...hot.

[holly golightly]

unfortunately i'm guilty of succumbing to those fascist beauty standards :o. I have a weight i like and even though i always, always exercise (because i enjoy it) i find if i budge a lb then i watch what i eat very close. it's really annoying.

[soilman]

Kreeli writes:
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i think soilman sounds so...hot
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Well, I'm glad you think I'm hot.

You're the second person today to think I am hot. While I was waiting outside the supermarket for the taxi to pick me and my grocery bags up, and bring me home, a rather attractive young woman pulled up to the curb in her car, got out, noticed me, took a long look at me, asked me if I was alright, said that she thought I didn't look well, mentioned that older people sometimes feel ill in this heat and, gesturing with her cell phone, asked me if I wanted her to call an ambulance for me.

[soilman]

Maybe I should have said "if you get in the ambulance with me and take your clothes off," but I wasn't thinking too fast at the time.

Then again, that's probably exactly what the last old man she thought might be in urgent need of medical care, said to her.

[Brake4Squirrels]

Soilman, that would have been a very rude and offensive thing to say!

I don't really understand why a person needs to weigh a certain amount. Isn't it more important that the weight is muscle, and not fat? What's the big deal with having to weigh enough?

[KillsTheWeak]

<< Soilman, that would have been a very rude and offensive thing to say! >>
And suggesting he needed an ambulence isnt offensive??

[FishAreCool]

I don't think what soilman thought about saying later was offensive! Most men think that way, and it wasn't like he actually said it. Sounds like something I would think, actually. ;)

Anyway, back to the orignal topic...I think as long as you are following your hunger signals and doing some sort of exercise on a regular basis, you needn't worry about what you weigh. Weights are such an individual thing, and height/weight charts are really just a guideline. As long as you FEEL OK, and the doctor says you're healthy in every other way, I think you should be fine.

[soilman]

b4s writes:

"I don't really understand why a person needs to weigh a certain amount. Isn't it more important that the weight is muscle, and not fat? What's the big deal with having to weigh enough?"

You need to be at least a certain weight, in order to have adequte fat stores to provide you with energy, and water (fat is converted to water) to carry you thru periods of not eating.

The muscle-fat ratio tends to be somewhat self-regulating. But if you are less than a certain weight, you won't have enough body fat stored in your tissue, to break down and use for energy, your fat-muscle ratio will start becoming too low, and you will need to start breaking down muscle to use for energy (turning it temporarily into carbohydrates and fats before burning it).

If you are more than about 20 to 60 pounds overweight (the number of pounds overweight varies acc to sex and individual) you will start adding only fat, and not muscle, no matter what kind of exercise you do (unless you take injections of androgens).

That is why fat and to only a slightly lesser extent carbs are almost just as important in the diet as protein. In fact, in order to build adequte muscle, you should limit your protein intake to not too many times the rda, and eat plenty of carbohydrates and fats -- otherwise your body will start using that ingested protein as a source of protein, to provide carbs for immediate energy and fat for stored fat.

Go beyond a certain weight, and your fat-protein ratio will become too high. High-androgen males can increase their weight maybe a good 60 pounds beyond their minimum healthy weight, and still maintain the proper muscle-fat ratio, if they do muscle-building exercise. Women only about a 20 pounds they can put on above their miniumum healthy weight. After that, no matter how much exercise they do, their muscles will not grow any more, and instead they will deposit fat.

But below a minimum healthy weight, you will have too little fat in storage, no matter how little exercise you do.

This said, the general idea of what people think is weighing "enough" is usually actually a lot more that what enough really is. The average weight of "normal"-weight people is really more than what many experts think would be the true normal. Most "normal" weight people can lose 20 pounds, even more, and still be adequate in weight, and have a good muscle-fat ratio. Even people who are thought to be "slim and trim" can often lose 15 pounds without becoming dangerously underweight. But there does reach a point where weight goes down so low that it causes disability, and at a point way below that, starts causing damage.

I don't think I had the same energy and stamina at 110 pounds as I had at 120. And I like to have a padding of 15 to 20 pounds above that miniumum of 120 at which i didn't lose any capabilities.

Swimmers often like to add maybe 10 or 25 extra pounds to purposely have a higher fat-muscle ratio -- this helps them keep warm in cool water, and to swim long distances without running out of energy. And they might burn 10 pounds of fat, lose 10 pounds of weight, during a long swim.

[soilman]

The "are you feeling alright" story was slightly embroidered and embellished for dramatic effect.

I didn't really remember exactly what the woman said. So I made some parts of the conversation up, when "transcribing" it here. I suppose my lack of adequate memory, to transcribe it more accuately, could have been due to Alzheimer's. I can't remember if I've been diagnozed with Alzheimers or not.

[HappyDaisy]

Well, I would still recommend weight training. Not to get big and bulky, but to increase weight and definition. Soilman had great advice, but weight training will help you "fill out".

I am 5'8" and weigh 115. About 5 years ago, before I was veggie and vegan, I weight trained and worked out alot. I also ate healthy, though I wasn't vegan, but I did eat well and low fat. When I weight trained I weighed almost 130 ( I gained about 10 pounds by weight training then, up from 118-120 before I weight trained). I didn't like that though, being I'm a girl, and I am small framed, but it goes to show what weights will do for you!! I was actually pretty much the same size as I am now, but I guess I had more muscle then. My upper body (arms) was more defined anyway. My thighs were, too.

So, if you want to LOOK fuller, go with weights, in addition to what soilman said. You will LOOK bigger, even if you're really not. If that makes any sense. :)

[HappyDaisy]

Originally posted by FishAreCool
I don't think what soilman thought about saying later was offensive! Most men think that way, and it wasn't like he actually said it. Sounds like something I would think, actually. ;)

Anyway, back to the orignal topic...I think as long as you are following your hunger signals and doing some sort of exercise on a regular basis, you needn't worry about what you weigh. Weights are such an individual thing, and height/weight charts are really just a guideline. As long as you FEEL OK, and the doctor says you're healthy in every other way, I think you should be fine.

Yeah, i agree with that. I feel my best at around 120, no matter what the charts tell me, and they always say I should weigh more. I also don't feel my best weighing much less. Just go with what feels right. Your body knows.

[LadyFaile]

yep, by all intents and purposes, i'm underweight. but i'm really not, i've always been this size and it's just the way i am. but all charts say i should weigh about 5 or 10 lbs more. really i don't see how a few lbs makes a difference. who cares about weight, it's just numbers and means nothing. it's all about how you feel, and if how you look is part of how you feel, then do what you think is best. if you want to gain fat and not muscle, go for it.
personally i prefer a guy with muscle on him than a guy with 'meat' on him. a thin but well built man is more attractive, to me, than a larger but not well built one.

and yes of course you have to change your diet if you're weight training, i thought i'd mentioned that. generally if you're excercising or training you burn a lot more energy and have more of an appetite anyways, so getting extra calories shouldn't be hard if you obey your stomach, it's just a matter of researching where your calories should be coming from. lots of proteins and carbs and good fats

[Brake4Squirrels]

Originally posted by FishAreCool
[B]I don't think what soilman thought about saying later was offensive! Most men think that way, and it wasn't like he actually said it. Sounds like something I would think, actually. ;)



I'd probably sock a guy in the face if he said something like that to me! Why do guys have to think about sex and naked women all the time? I'd hate to think that everytime I meet a new guy who looks like he thinks I'm attractive, he turns out to just be wondering what's under my clothes.

When I meet attractive men, I don't want to say to him "take your clothes off," I want to say, "What are you doing tonight? What do you like to do? Do you have a girlfriend?"

b4s

[majake]

'When I meet attractive men, I don't want to say to him "take your clothes off," I want to say, "What are you doing tonight? What do you like to do? Do you have a girlfriend?""

now now B4S, what exactly are you hoping to get out of an attractive guy asking you those things, if the end result isnt to get in his pants? some meaningful conversation? lol

[majake]

or maybe i should say get him out of his pants. ;)

[Brake4Squirrels]

Hey, I like sex, but at least I want for me and the guy to know and like eachother well for eachother's minds before we F***. I'd rather turn an attractive man into my boyfriend instead of just my toy.