I'm just wondering...is protein a concern for anyone? How about for athletes? What are your opinions? Also, what kind of protein do you consume? Do you go for all-natural protein from legumes, leafy greens, etc, or do you drink protein shakes?

Personally, I try to get about 10% of my calories from protein, and 15%-20% on strength-training days. I include protein-rich plants, but go more for protein shakes (even with only 10% calories from protein, that isn't easy to get on a vegan diet). My favorite kind is spiru-tein (soy protein) and I usually mix the shakes with a banana or another type of fruit, a little soy-milk powder, and water.

I don't know the exact figures but I am pretty sure I get enough.

I have a protein shake with soy milk every morning and I eat a ton of legumes and spinach.

I think there is a bit of a myth regarding how much protein one needs. Most folks in the western world consume twice as much protein as they need per day (or so I've read).

" Most folks in the western world consume twice as much protein as they need per day (or so I've read)."

From what I can figure out, they consume about twice as much, on average, as their recommended daily allowance. Since that is twice as much as they actually can get by on, that means they consume four times as much as they need.

Originally posted by soilman
" Most folks in the western world consume twice as much protein as they need per day (or so I've read)."

From what I can figure out, they consume about twice as much, on average, as their recommended daily allowance. Since that is twice as much as they actually can get by on, that means they consume four times as much as they need.

That's really interesting. It sounds like protein overdose. What are the side effects of such doses? I know that Atkin's diet followers can develope ketosis...

tons. i get more now than i ever did as a carnie. hopefully not too much tho, but i doubt it. i get it from tofu,legumes,peanutbutter, plus a bunch of other junk.

I don't think 4 times as much as you actually need is getting into overdose area yet. It is more effecient use of digestive resources to get energy from fats and carbohydrates; extra protein is converted to fats and carbohydrates -- but this consumes energy, so it is not as an efficient way of getting energy as eating fats and carbohydrates directly. It also produces waste products that are more toxic and more stress on liver and kidneys, to get energy from protein when you could be getting it from carbs and fats; but I don't think 4 times as much as the minimum you could get by on, is any problem -- unless of course you have a pre-exisiting liver or kidney disorder, such as gout.

Since protein is so essential for "human building materials," it is probably a damn good idea to get 1 and one half to twice as much as the minimum you could get by on. Especially for growing children.

i've read on a few veggie sites that getting excessive protein is actually the cause of osteoperosis, rather than a lack of calcium as you commonly hear. no idea which side of the coin is correct but the way i see it, just try to get enough calcium and not too much protein ;)

People falsly believe that having strong bones means getting a large dose of calcium. It's much more than that. You have to be able to absorb it and hold on to it, with the help of sunlight, magnesium, excercise, and avoiding caffeine, and too much protein. Too much protein can steal calcium out of your bones and it just drains out of your body in urine. That's why milk calcium doesn't do much for you. It confuses me though because how is it that soymilk supposedly advertises having lots of calcium to make it as "good" as milk, but also has all that protein too.

I just read in Andrew Weil's book "Eating Well for Optimum Health" that even if vegetables have protein, we still can't use it as well as we can use animal protein, because we are genetically similar to animals. Our bodies can work with the molecules and re-arrange them easier, than the ones in vegetables. Vegetables aren't similar to us at all. Do you know what else? We share more DNA with mushrooms than with plants.

Anyway... for me, I don't worry a whole lot about protein because my needs aren't very high. Maybe if I were pregnant, I'd worry. I try to eat beans & rice, and cottage cheese as often as I can.

brake 4 sqrs

actually i've read that calcium and protein go hand in hand and without enough of one you can't properly absorb the other, but likewise if you get too much of one. the key is balance. you need enough of both calcium and protein to benefit from either of them.
other side effects of too much protein.. heart disease, high blood pressure, obesity, kidney stones, kidney disease, various types of cancer, etc...

this is from a peta site, www.goveg.com:
Meat and dairy products raise the acid level in human blood, causing calcium to be excreted from the bones to restore the body's natural pH balance. This calcium depletion results in osteoporosis, or weakening of the bones. The excreted calcium ends up in the kidneys, where it often forms painful stones. Kidney disease is far more common in meat-eaters than in vegans, and excessive protein consumption has also been linked to cancer of the colon, breast, prostate, and pancreas

only 2.5-10 percent of the total calories consumed by the average human being needs to be in the form of protein. The rule of thumb used by the National Academy of Sciences Food and Nutrition Board is .57 grams of protein for every kilogram (2.2 pounds) of body weight. People under special circumstances (such as pregnant women) are advised to get a little more. Vegans should not worry about getting enough protein; if you eat a reasonably varied diet and ingest sufficient calories, you will undoubtedly get enough protein

here's another interesting fact from a different peta site:
No one has ever died of a heart attack with a cholesterol level below 150, and the average vegan has a cholesterol level of 128.

I want to point out that a lot of those problems (heart disease, high blood pressure, obesity, diabetes, etc etc) can come from too many carbohydrates. The body converts carbs to sugar, and to deal with all that sugar, the pancreas produces insulin. This is what causes mood swings, and those other problems. Protein and fat, along with carbs, helps slow down the body's response to and absorption of all that sugar.

Here's some stuff I found on calcium:

http://www.pcrm.org/health/VSK/VSK5.html

http://www.afpafitness.com/articles/MILK.HTM this one is about protein combined with calcium.

http://www.makingpages.org/health/calcium.osteoporosis.html that one has a little bit on that too

Actually, sugar is a carbohydrate. There are 4 main types of carbohydrates, I think: sugars; starches which are "complex carbohydrates"; as also are hemi-celluloses (soluble fiber) (agar, pectin, locust bean gum, carragheenan); and celluloses (insoluble fiber) (as in wheat bran, saw dust). Someone tell me if I got my info mixed up?

I don't really think too many carbohydrates are a problem -- except cooked starches (not sugar) causes tooth decay -- cooked starches stick to teeth; they are converted to sugar in the mouth, by saliva, while being still stuck to the teeth, which allow sugar-consuming bacteria colonies started, who make the situation pleasant for bacteria that eat tooth enamal, to get started.

That is, I don't believe that excess starches cause heart disease, high blood pressure, or diabetes. I think they may contribute to obesity, but I think the main cause of obesity is too much fat ingestion, animal or vegetable, not too much carbohydrate ingestion. Too many hemicelluloses and too many celloses should not be a problem at all. However high fat foods, like cakes and cookies with high fat levels, have their fats "held together" by starches. Excess starch, in excess of the amount needeed to produce enough sugar, tends to be converted to fats. Excess proteins are converted to starches, sugars, and fats.

Too much sugar, without enough water -- is what causes me too feel "off" -- not too much starch. I can eat all juicy watery fruit i want, and feel fine as a result, feel better, but get malaise and headaches if I eat cookies and cakes. I can eat all the bread I want without feeling ill. I can't eat dried fruits or dry fruits like bananas -- same problem as cookies and cakes. I think i am nawrmle.

Originally posted by soilman
Actually, sugar [b]is a carbohydrate. There are 4 main types of carbohydrates, I think: sugars; starches which are "complex carbohydrates"; as also are hemi-celluloses (soluble fiber) (agar, pectin, locust bean gum, carragheenan); and celluloses (insoluble fiber) (as in wheat bran, saw dust). Someone tell me if I got my info mixed up?


Yea, I didn't mean they were two different things. We normally don't think of a bread roll as sugar, but it is. Your body treats a bread roll just like it treats a jelly donut.


That is, I don't believe that excess starches cause heart disease, high blood pressure, or diabetes. I think they may contribute to obesity, but I think the main cause of obesity is too much fat ingestion, animal or vegetable, not too much carbohydrate ingestion.


This is where you are wrong, Soilman, according to recent research. Animal and vegetable fat has almost NOTHING to do with obesity. There are different kinds of fat- saturated and unsaturated (mono and poly). Saturated fat comes mainly from animals, and it clogs your arteries and gives you cancer and heart disease. UNsaturated fat comes from vegetables, olives, walnuts and fish, and it is very good for you. It helps your cell activity, your brain and it keeps cancer away.

Carbohydrates are sugar, which is basically energy. When you consume too much energy, and you don't spend it, you start growing a big belly to carry around. It is as simple as that. Start spending more energy and you will lose it.

Obesity causes high blood pressure and heart disease because all that extra body mass has to be supported by a single heart, which was meant to support somebody thinner. That's why it puts a strain on your heart and you develop those problems. Diabetes comes from strain on your pancreas, which has been strained for years and years of eating jelly donuts. (Unless of course, you had it since birth).

Dietary fat IS NOT body fat.

Read Walter Willet, Andrew Weil, and Barry Sears.

a lot of carbs is fine if you're a very active person. they give you energy and if you don't want to lose weight you need to ingest carbs before being active so your body has something to burn other than fat. if you want to lose weight, ingest enough carbs to keep you going, but work out longer.
i've been told that the first half hour of working out you burn carbs/sugar, and then after that you start to burn fat. if you have no fat to burn, you'll burn muscle, which is not good, that's why people who are in excellent shape only work out for 20 to 30 minutes at a time.
my bf and friends are into mountain biking, endurance races and such, and they'll often be riding hard for 2 hours at a time. to keep their energy up and not burn muscle, they carry energy bars or powergels with them that are made mainly of sugar/carbs

just want to add that though we're raised to believe we need protein for energy, it's carbs that gives us energy, protein mainly helps repair tissues, which explains why bodybuilders eat a lot of protein, they work the muscles until they tear and then become stronger when they heal

I personally get around 20% of my calories from protein. I've read that technically we only need about 12% from protein, but I've found if I eat that little I get hungry all the time. You'd have to TRY to get less than 15% cals from protein.

And I find loading up on carbs generally increases hunger, but everyone's body is different. Listen to it and see what feels right.

yeah that's true, any info on the subject is really just guidelines but every body is built differently and not everyone is as active as others or some are more active, plus other health conditions can change the way you absorb nutrients. so yeah everyone has different needs and it's just a matter of paying attention to your body.
personally i'm trying to figure out why i'm so damn tired all the time lately, but i'm sure it's not due to protein issues

I generally eat 60% carbs, 30% protein and 10% fat, according to http://www.fitday.com
However, I dont eat sugar in any form, including molasses and evaporated cane juice, etc.....
I also dont eat wheat or wheat products, and only on rare occasions will I have multi-grain cereal or brown rice.
The majority of my carbs come from soy products, and fruits and veggies, and my spelt toast!

thanks for the link, i sent it on to my mom who is trying to lose weight but seems to think she's not allowed to eat carbs.

Your supposed to get 33 percent of your energy from protein. I am not sure how much I get but Im sure it is a considerably less amount then 33 percent. I try to get my protein from vegetables and grain foods. i never tried the protein shakes are they good?

PEaCe

lc writes:
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Your supposed to get 33 percent of your energy from protein.
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Where did you get that bit of information? Did you mean 33 percent of your potential energy, in calories, 33 percent of your caloric intake?

One of my favorite pastimes is pointing out that it is better to utilize carbs and fats for fuel, and save proteins for use as building materials, rather than burn them for energy. But they still have an "energy" value even if you don't use them for energy. An amount of "potential energy." Perhaps this is what the 33 percent refers to?

Yumhummus writes:
"I dont eat sugar in any form,"

Yumhummus, if you eat fruit, you eat a large amount of sugar. Just about all "vegetables" contain some sugar, and vegetables like, for example, squash, sweet potatoes, and beets, contain large amounts of sugar. If you were to juice a carrot and then boil away some of the water, you would be doing the same thing as eating molasses. Sugar cane is a vegetable, a stalk, like celery or brocolli, with a large amount of sugar, more than brocolli, but brocolli has some sugar. Making light molasses from sugar cane amounts to juicing a vegetable and concentrating the juice by boiling away some of the water.

I know, however, that what is usually described as "evaporated cane juice" is not merely evaporated cane juice. It is evaporated cane juice that has been refined. The fact that it may have some color and flavor doesn't mean that it is unrefined; it just means that it is not totally refined. Evaporated cane juice is therefore not a food that is rich in micronutrients, like light molasses, or concentrated carrot juice.

It isn't a poor food because it is sugar. It is a poor food because it is so highly refined.

I got the information from my nutrition and wellness book. I think it said about the same thing Yumhummus said. That you need 55 percent or more from carbohyrates and 30 percent or less from fats. And 33 percent from carbs.

Yumhummus writes:
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I also dont eat wheat or wheat products, and only on rare occasions will I have multi-grain cereal or brown rice.
The majority of my carbs come from soy products, and fruits and veggies, and my spelt toast!
======================

Hmm. I consider spelt to be wheat. It is certainly much more like wheat than it is like rice, corn, barley, millet, rye or any other grass seed.

Soybeans themselves are low in carbohydrates. So if your carboydrates come from "soy product" -- it tells us nothing about where they really come from. Though chances are they come from wheat, rice, potatoes, manioc root, or corn.

Most legumes, other than soybeans, have lots of proteins and carbohydrates and tiny amounts of other things. Peanuts have proteins, carbohydrates, and in addition, lots of fat, and tiny amounts of other things. Soybeans have protein, fats -- and fairly low amounts of carbohydrates.

lc writes: "nutrition and wellness book."

Name, author, publisher?

55 percent of your potential energy, in calories, should come from carbohydrates -- or 55 percent of the mass of your food intake, in grams (or pounds)? There could be a big difference in what 55 percent of the total mass of your food is, and 55 percent of what the total potential energy of your food, is.

If the book does not say which it means, mass or potential energy, then it has informed you of -- nothing.

I am not sure who the author of the book was. And I know it explained what the percents were for but I just dont remeber and the book is in my locker I will check it out and post back here later.