The Pursuit Of Liberalism

[RveganR]

Do any of you guys read any Liberal writers? I've read Howard Zinn, Noam Chomsky (favorite), Gore Vidal, William F Buckley (Ultra-Conservative, but at least thinks critically), Or any Zmag?
I ask because I see continuing trends in American youths of a sort of unprogressive, ultra-shallow streak that appears to be unprecedented through history and I was hoping I could find some people here that would have something to say about that. (Sorry I start ranting here) I just can't belive that there are people at my school that have Prada and Louis Vitton bags, really there just must be more important things to spend your money on (I put about 20% of my paycheck to a Refusnik group (Soldiers who refuse to fight the palestinians and are then arrested) that finances lawyers to defend them). Many teenagers only worry about how much makeup
(dead animal makeup) they can slop on their faces to Impress people. Now this goes for guys to male teens spend their money on things like what well at my school mainly beer, clothes, and hair products. Others buy ridiculous pointless things that in reality only will give them several hours of excitment (Video games, that sorta thing). I try to spend my money the best I can on things that will "expand my horizon" (that sounds kinda stupid but you know what i mean) books and travel mostly. I Just see this real conservative (happy with the status quo) attitude amongst many teens, Just how hard is it to see that most americans lifestyles are a sort of enslavement by corporations(WITH ALMOST ANYTHING WE DO BUY USE, THE CAPITAL IS SENT BACK TO A FEW CORPORATIONS, is it hard to see that this is wrong)?

[Rebel Girl]

move to boulder! great place for liberals, hippies, punks, yes. vegans too! i have read alot of Noam Chomsky, and i can see where you are coming from. this board has many diverse people, we do have some republican conservatives on this board, and they will make their point known. I try and support every kind of people on everything they do, pro gay, pro feminist, etc etc, but there are some hard core liberals, and hard core conservatives which make both sides look terrible. i do, however, consider myself a liberal.

[RveganR]

Yeah, Sorry I was sorta angry at the time and went on a tangent, eheh But I do believe what I said about problems with society

[RveganR]

Oh and about boulder, I've been there once and thought it was a little small for my taste, nice city though.

[clickman]

I read a little bit of their stuff, but I go out and do things mostly. Protesting against the war in Iraq, being a member of the Massachusetts Committee to Elect Ralph Nader, etc.

[thebelovedtree]

When I was wearing my anti war armband to protest the war I heard all kinds of stupid uninformed things, and it made me crazy, the same with my veganism, and being anti animal testing, and against animals in schools, anti Louis Vitton bags (not only are they stupid, they are ugly, they look like nursery room wall paper and if it didnt say LV then everyone would agree with me). I know a girl who is covered in conflict diamonds who tells me that she is against slave labor and wants to help children in africa. in short i hate most of my peers and can't wait for them to grow up! Long live good will and used book stores!

[Rebel Girl]

what was your anti war arm band like? ive always wanted to wear something that people could reconize that was anti war, but not like a button or anything. (ive got boat loads of buttons) you know? is it just a black band? i think i should wear a red one that could stand for anti vivisection and such. My generation is so lacking, the amount of students in my school who have dreams that shoot as high as getting laid by a rapper and being so and so's baby's momma. my principal even had a Freshman and Sophmore class meeting to discussing the 80% of the lower class population that is D grades or lower....GET IT THROUGH YOUR HEAD MAN! EDUCATION! Books are the weapons in the war of ideas.

[thebelovedtree]

My anti war band was a black band with a white peace sign on it, it may be the only fad i ever started, but i dont think it really counts since only like 4 students and a teacher wore them, lol.

[skunkpumpkin]

RveganR, I'm with you, man. My school is littered with people who are blissfully ignorant. They don't see anything wrong with the way their country is run. They don't seek the truth! There is a club at school called "students for international socialism," which is an awesome idea, but they aren't very good at getting their messages across and end up smoking pot instead. heh.

ANYWAYS, i agree with you guys, people aren't into educating themselves and rejecting status quo. people around me seem to think i'm such an intellectual because i'm always in the middle of a book! what the f*ck?!

and, as an end note, I hate video games more and more each day. they are ruining people. Lots of people are apalled by the fact that i don't play video games regularly. I'm apalled that they're all so freakin' ignorant!...and i still don't know a whole lot.

[Rebel Girl]

i understand where all of you are coming from..i feel like i need a giant soapbox and SHOUT AND SHOUT AND SHOUT! Girl, You Shout! did you make your own bands or get them from some where? if you made them, how did you do it?! tell me away because i want to know!!! I should wear red ones that say A x L and H xL and sXe...YEAH YEAH YEAH YEAH YEAH GIRL! GIRLS WE SHOUT! im inspired.

[RveganR]

Although I agree with you guys the one thing I think that many Liberals don't keep in perspective is their attitudes. When dealing with people that you disagree with I reccomend a cool calm approach to the very least you don't seem abraisive like those Jerks Michael moore and Al franken. Those guys give the conservative press a perfect examples of the "Stupid liberal elite" as Rush Libmbaugh stated the other day, on the other hand it's far harder to crititzize (How do you spell that) someone like Noam Chomsky or William F Buckley (Even though he's a Conservative) because of the way they present them selves, cool, calm , and poised.

[thebelovedtree]

I made them by taking a stretchy pair of exercise type pants i had and cutting the fabric to the right size, then painting the peace sign on (i think i used white nail polish) you might need to use several layers of paint, because it will soak into the fabric and not show up, i also saw people use fabric pop up paint, but it started to peel in a few days because of the fabric stretching. Anyway, secure with a safety pin and you're ready to protest.

[Rebel Girl]

Blood Diamonds make me so sad, i want to cry everytime i hear a girl talk about the beautiful russian diamond her boyfriend got her etc etc etc. If when people become educated and decide to become conservative, thats great for them, as long as they are educated! our country is failing to give out ALL the information about everything.......i found this video where they caught Donald Rumsfeld in the act of lying, i wanted to scream that someone like this has the power to kill. :down: it makes me really really sad....and all the really bad police things i hear, like the nuns who were given life in prison when they were protesting outside a nuclear warhead factory.......ok i might not be religious, but Nuns are definitly not violent and definitly not out to kill and steal nuclear warheads from their country. One of my friends has a patch that says "Support the Police, BEAT YOURSELF UP!" and i completly understand it....There are police that do their duty well and serve and protect, but there are also those cops who are really not doing their jobs, like in NYC, the cop who reloaded his gun like 3 times to shoot a guy 41 (expletive deleted) times because he thought a wallet was a gun...if there is so much corruption...Michael Moore and Al Franken are like the Liberal equivelant of Peta. trying to get a message across the wrong way. We've got PUNK CNN with bands like Propagandhi, NOFX, and Le Tigre. and we have rivers of underground reporting and everything...as long as you can see things from both sides then thats...well thats the best you can do i suppose. AGH! im sorry im all frustrated now.

BANG BANG! by Le Tigre (well only one part )
oh bang bang! oh bang bang!
wrong (expletive deleted ) time wrong f*cking place, dont tell me this is not about race!
who's gonna call 911 when our police cant tell a motherf*cking wallet from a gun?! oh bang bang!
(news reporter voice)
since the shooting, police have changed their account of what happened last nite. they have angered many community members, especially since the unarmed shooting of unarmed african imigrant, Amadul Dealoh (spelling!)


then they count from 1 to 41. its so sad. sometimes America can seem like a big jail run by police with privleages.

[Catryna]

Although I agree with you guys the one thing I think that many Liberals don't keep in perspective is their attitudes. When dealing with people that you disagree with I reccomend a cool calm approach to the very least you don't seem abraisive like those Jerks Michael moore and Al franken. Those guys give the conservative press a perfect examples of the "Stupid liberal elite" as Rush Libmbaugh stated the other day, on the other hand it's far harder to crititzize (How do you spell that) someone like Noam Chomsky or William F Buckley (Even though he's a Conservative) because of the way they present them selves, cool, calm , and poised.

Moore and Franken abraisive!!??
Please give me a situation in which they have acted abraisively. I have read Moore's books, watched his movie and am reading F.'s book currently have have found no examples.

[RveganR]

a·bra·sive adj.
Causing abrasion: scratched the stovetop with an abrasive cleanser.
Harsh and rough in manner: an unpleasant, abrasive personality.


Well lets start with franken, All these are from his newest book Lies and lying liars who tell them, CHP 2 ; Ann Coulter NutCase, CHP 3 ; Do you know who I don't like? Ann Coulter, CHP 6 I Bitch-Slap Bernie Goldberg, Bill O'Reilly: Lying, Splotchy Bully, If you don't think those are abraisive then how do you define abraisive. When a person is as agressive as Franken is it makes it extremley hard for the other side (right wing) to understand him, all they see is someguy calling them an ^%hole. On the other hand you have Chomsky who even William F Buckley (head hancho conservative) called "one of the most important and debated intellectuals of our time", Chomsky is extremley liberal, much much much farther left than franken, yet he is far more respected by intellectuals than Franken is. WHY? because he doesnt spend his time calling Rush Limabaugh a big fat Idiot (title of frankens book) instead he spends his time explaining how capatalism is set up to keep the capital of the world in the pocket of a selected few.
Now moore or I like to call him Chubs (Yes thats abrasive), this should be quick. He called the president a **** head, Ass Hole, and C^(t. If you don't consider those Abrasive then you should see the defenition at the top.

[vegansurfer]

I actually sort of liked Franken's book. I agree 100% with you RveganR that it is hard for the other side to respect him, but I have to admit, the book was entertaining, and it got me to start reading more of the political books. I was a little surprised with the language that Moore and Franken use, but I have seen worse and i think that they deserve most of the bashings that they have taken. It is all just a matter of writing style.

I can completely understand why people do not like those two. They dislike them for the exact same reason I can't stand PETA. Extremists who tend to give that group a bad name.

I do find it a bummer that those two writers seem to be the most well known liberal political writers, yet are not the best ones, but that happens. The ones who make the bigger stink are more well known but you know what, they get people to read other authors books.

my views on these issues are still not cemented in. Politics is a relatively new category of my interests. I can see this thread getting interesting and fun.

[RveganR]

Huurrryryyr Go Get Year 501 By Noam Chomsky And Or Also Prefferably "the Indespensable Chomsky/ Understanding Power"