The Religious Views Thread

[Wiccanveg]

I noticed the thread that praised God and it seemed that at least one person was wondering what about Him/Her/Them do people praise. I wanted to open up a forum where we can debate, argue, discuss and rant about everything regarding religion.

First of all I want to make sure people know that there is such a thing as freedom of speech. I also want to mention a favorite quote of mine that regards to it.

" I do not agree with what you say but I defend to the death your right to say it."

To start things off, my beliefs are that of the pagan persuasion. Not pagan as in heathen ( one who believes in nothing) but pagan as in I believe there is a force out there, and it is nature. I also believe strongly in Wicca but not all parts of it.

Mostly I believe in things I can see. Nature is definetly something I can see. How about everyone else?

[kpickell]

This sums up my beliefs:

The Buddha's Kalama Sutta

Do not believe in anything (simply)
because you have heard it.

Do not believe in traditions because they
have been handed down for many generations.

Do not believe in anything because it is
spoken and rumoured by many.

Do not believe in anything (simply) because
it is found written in your religious books.

Do not believe in anything merely on the authority
of your teachers and elders.

But after observation and analysis
when you find that anything agrees with reason
and is conductive to the good and benefit of one and all
then accept it and live up to it.

(Anguttara Nikaya Vol. 1, 188-193 P.T.S. Ed.)
But I'm not buddhist. I'm an ex-Christian, mostly agnostic.

[dvmarie]

My spiritual beliefs are closest to Buddhist than anything else. It makes the most sense to me, and I'm most comfortable with it. I would like to put forth more effort in this direction.

I don't know much about pagan, but from what I've heard - that faith would probably jive with my natural spiritual inclinations.

[DannyKass]

I don't know what I belief in. I don't know what I don't believe in.

This year for english I decided to do a research project on religion so that I could think about what it was I actually believed in. I went to a catholic primary school for 8 years, so for that time I just thought you HAD to believe what they were saying. I always got in trouble for asking questions the teachers couldn't answer! And because of all of that I thought that it was wrong to not be catholic, and you would be punished for not being one! My school was weird. Standing for an hour in church when your 5 is hard, especially if you have a short attention span.

Anyway, within the last few years without that school I've done great! I'm not scared of religion anymore, and thanks to reading peoples opinions here I don't get fearful when I think of myself as Agnostic.

To me religion makes things complicated, but if people are into it that's cool! Whatever floats your boat! Having religion SHOVED down my throat for more than half my life has put me off it quite a bit, although at least I know alot more about it then most of my friends! I think it should be your own choice what you believe in!

I have a friend who is a Baptist, and one who belongs to the church of new life, I don't get the differences between Christians! Well except they both seem to have fun services with bands, as apposed to the catholic church I used to go to in which you either stood the whole time, or sat on the hard wooden benches.. whilst listening to a man in his 80's mummble!

What I think about religion is that everyones entilted to believe in what they want, whereever they want, however they want, as long as it doesnt harm others or themselves! It's just not for me at the moment, maybe it will be someday, maybe it won't be! Who knows!

[Alec Eiffel]

It sucks how some militant people rub people the wrong way and give them false impressions of a religion. Especially the Catholic church " Sit down, dont ask questions, when you pray say the exact words we tell you to say or else God wont listen to you, pray at the times we tell you to or else God wont listen to you, and finally, if you have any questions for God, ask us, not God, we'll relay the message...yeah...trust us." I dont mean to offend anyone, I'm not saying all Catholics are like this, or their churchs, but for the most part, this is the impression I get. Too formal, they make it seem like God has some type of obssesive complusive disorder and will only speak to pedofiles preaching lies. I dont think religion is something you can know through merely words alone, you have to feel God for yourself, its not something you can put into words. For awhile I was on the fence, not sure about God, or Jesus, to be honest I was tired of taking everyones word for it and reading nothing but words, I prayed for awhile, asking God if Jesus was the messiah, He told me Jesus was indeed the messiah. So from then on I havent looked back. Honestly, it takes a leap, faith. A leap of faith, and I think its so sad that people dont believe because others try to force it onto them. Anyways im ranting and I hope I havent offended anyone. I remember when I was little I would always ask questions, and some people (not too many) would tell me to not question my religion. But what is learned if you dont ask questions? God likes questions.

[kpickell]

For awhile I was on the fence, not sure about God, or Jesus, to be honest I was tired of taking everyones word for it and reading nothing but words, I prayed for awhile, asking God if Jesus was the messiah, He told me Jesus was indeed the messiah. So from then on I havent looked back.

That's interesting to me. How did you know it was God telling you this and not someone else, Satan for example?

(asking out of curiousity, not trying to sound pretentious)

[Alec Eiffel]

Satan cannot acknowledge Jesus. It talks about that in the Bible, anything that is from satan cannot acknowlege Jesus, and if an Angels comes to you, it would be best to ask it whos name it comes in. If they say Jesus, they there you go. If they dont, if they try to mix lies with half-truth, then you'll now who sent this "angel".

[schu]

I think they were asking how YOU could know this though, the bible says it, but is that the only reason you believe it? What triggers this "truth" to you?

About the angels for instance, how do you know that you are talking to angels and not just yourself? I am just trying to get a description of your feeling, this isn't meant to be insulting.

[bethanie]

I'm a Christian. Though after talking about it with someone recently, I've discovered I'm sort of a bad Christian. Meaning, I certainly shouldn't be the one speaking for ALL Christians.

My basic beliefs....I believe in grace and forgiveness. Kindness and mercy. And I believe that somewhere down the line you end up getting back, exactly what you are giving out. (what goes around comes around, Karma...etc).

I had to tell my friend...that with all her debate about jesus being the son of god...all her disbelief. And that I've indeed always had my own set of doubts. But when it comes down to it, I believe if everyone acted a little more like the example Jesus set with his life, according to the writings and teachings...the world would be a little bit less nasty. ;)

I'm not here to debate it though...I've done that with myself for years :). Just here to say that I'm a believer in the Christian God...I'm a Christian. Though I bring to that my own unique set of gifts and ideas...and they don't always necessarily follow the 'law.'

B

[FalafelsRule]

Ahhhh, it feels so good to be religion free.

[Marie]

Word to your mutha! :p

[kpickell]

Satan cannot acknowledge Jesus. It talks about that in the Bible, anything that is from satan cannot acknowlege Jesus, and if an Angels comes to you, it would be best to ask it whos name it comes in. If they say Jesus, they there you go. If they dont, if they try to mix lies with half-truth, then you'll now who sent this "angel".

If you already believed in the Bible, why did you need to pray to God to see if Jesus was the Messiah? It says that in the Bible too.

[SunnyK]

I don't practice any religion. I am most strongly attracted to Buddhism, which need not be considered a religion at all.

[webbum]

I'm very spiritual.
I think most religions are heading in the same direction but in different ways.
I think the Bible is a guide written by a bunch of men trying to interpret Jesus.
I think Buddha rocks.

[Wiccanveg]

Sunnyk..Buddhism is indeed a religion, if it isn't you can talk to my World Religions teacher about not teaching it next semester..

[SunnyK]

Sunnyk..Buddhism is indeed a religion, if it isn't you can talk to my World Religions teacher about not teaching it next semester..

Well, it's a debatable point... when I took a course on Buddhism in college, it was something the professor brought up: Is it a "religion"? Or a "philosophy"? Or both?

What I gleaned in that course is that "core" or "original" Buddhist beliefs/practices do not include any type of deity, or prayer, or heaven or hell, which makes it disimilar to Western ideas of "religion" -- and also disimilar to the Hinduism that was practiced at the same time/place that Buddhism was born.

It was very interesting to me to learn that, as Buddhism spread northward through Asia, god-like entities were introduced, i.e. bodhisattvas (sp?) to whom one can pray. I believe (but could very well be wrong) that most forms of Buddhism as practiced today do, in fact, include divine entities.

I guess that's why I said it "need not" be considered a religion ... although it certainly can be, and is by many.

I was personally more attracted to the less-religious versions of Buddhism.

:)

ETA: Now I want to go get out my old books on the topic! :book:

[bstutzma]

Kpickell, that is a lovely quote, thanks so much for sharing it.

I have to share that I went to a catholic high school and was very religious upon entry, but the environment there was so open and discussions were so supported, that by the end I was a new-born atheist. I do not believe I could have come to this conclusion without the support of my catholic school teachers, so just wanted everyone to know that not all catholic teaching is just indoctrination. (although I'm sure many of them were not terribly pleased with my final conclusion).

I suppose you could call me a secular humanist. I am spiritual in my own way, I believe strongly in treating others as you wish to be treated. That quote above really defines the way that I live, i'm surprised to have never stumbled upon it myself.

[dvmarie]

Well, it's a debatable point... when I took a course on Buddhism in college, it was something the professor brought up: Is it a "religion"? Or a "philosophy"? Or both?

I think if one looks at it as a religion the point is missed somewhat.
(maybe even looking at it as a philosophy is missing the point too)
(or even labeling oneself "Buddhist" might be missing the point......)
(I'm getting dizzy thinking about it :) )

Maybe the "both" is more appropriate. Look at more organized followers like Tibetan Buddhism or Pure Land Buddhism - those I'd consider a religion because it's organized and has rituals.

[EquiPro]

I follow the Conversations With God philosophy that there is only one thing that exists and that is, for a lack of a better word, god. I don't believe in heaven or hell, Satan or any of that other stuff, after all, if there is only one thing, than all of that has to be a part of the one thing.

I believe that we are each living parts of god, put forth to experience. I believe that nothing is either bad or good, but just an experience. Cold is no better or worse than hot, rather there can be no cold without hot. There is no "good" or "bad", rather there can be no "good" without "bad". There is no heaven or hell (IMHO invented to keep people compliant - the 'old carrot or stick' training method), since there is only One Thing anyway. We we die, we go back to the creator as there is no place else to go.

I consider all religious writings interpretations of communications with the One. I believe that god talks to all of us all of the time. I believe that we are only seperate from God by our own choice, that she isn't seperate from us.

I believe that we, as a species, will play ourselves out unless we see each and every other person as "self".

I have been Unitarian, agnostic, Catholic, and am now just me.

[SunnyK]

DVMarie: "Yes" to all that you said. :)

ETA: "Pure Land" was the term that I was not able to call to mind -- Korea, if I'm not mistaken? I would also definitely term that a "religion," and I found it surprising after all I'd learned about Buddhism as-it-began. I also had very mixed feelings about Tibetan Buddhism. Well, I even had a few qualms about Zen. Shoot, I need to :book: if I'm going to have anything else intelligent to say....

[dvmarie]

I believe that we are each living parts of god, put forth to experience.

I've always felt very comfortable with this idea. All of us being a part of ONE (whatever that actually is).

[dvmarie]

ETA: "Pure Land" was the term that I was not able to call to mind -- Korea, if I'm not mistaken? I would also definitely term that a "religion," and I found it surprising after all I'd learned about Buddhism as-it-began. I also had very mixed feelings about Tibetan Buddhism. Well, I even had a few qualms about Zen. Shoot, I need to :book: if I'm going to have anything else intelligent to say....

I'm not sure about Korea, but Pure Land is popular with Japanese. I find most Buddhist "religions" puzzling. Take the original idea (which is so simple) - add humans........and you've got gold statues, robes, tea ceremonies, and lots of chanting. (I don't mean to be "cute" - I certainly respect all Buddhist sects, but I don't understand what all the ritual is about).

[zoebird]

my basic belief about religions is that they are languages and symbologies that people use to describe their experiences from practicing certain spiritual disciplines. Religions teach disciplines, and describe what these disciplines do and what the result should be--and then describe that result.

the languages are often imprecise and usually come directly out of a particular cultural perspective. This is often difficult to translate, which is why people often misunderstand "other" religions from the one that they were raised in (or around). Sometimes, they're drawn to those "others" and have a tendency to romanticise them, without recognizing that the same core idaes, teachings, and practices are practiced in their "religion" close to home.

Likewise, many of the things that inhibit religions, and some religious people, is a strong connection to the cultural language of the religion, rather than focusing on what the religion is pointing too. There isn't a religion on earth that doesn't have this problem somewhere (fundamentalists and literalists). Even jain's have their extermists--even though they're staunchly nonviolent.

the real problem with religions is not the religions themselves, the teachings, or the spiritual disciplines, but rather when people become to fundamental about it. Consider the finger pointing at the moon. are you going to look where the finger is pointing, or look at the finger? Fundamentalists are obcessed with the finger. Religious/spiritual are seeking the moon.

[shethatisnau]

I was loosely raised Christian- very loosely. My dad has always and forever been agnostic, but to appease my Christian family he took me to church when I was younger for a few years. We stopped going at a very early age- the only time I can even remember going to a church was for a holiday mass (easter or christmas, not sure which) and I got a bloody nose. Of course, my grandparents or an aunt and uncle would take me to church on occassion, trying to "save" me. Never worked...when I was about 13 I went athiest, mostly out of spite and blatant disbelief. It lasted for about a year, then I slowly started gravitating towards agnosticism. I won't say there is a "God", but I wouldn't say there isn't. What I believe, however, is simple: Don't hurt others, don't inflict your beliefs on others unless they are interested, do what works for you as long as it doesn't harm anyone else, everyone has just as much right to exist as you do, etc. I'm a strong believer in the Hinduist belief of Ahimsa, which is basically what I just said. I don't like structured religions- you must pray, you must do this. I don't want religion to interfere with my life- veg*nism is as close to an organized religion you'll find me.

While I generally don't mind other religions, there is one practice that pisses me off- MISSIONARIES. I hate it. In my ever-so-humble opinion, they need to step off and let people live in a way that works for them. I didn't care until I saw a documentary on how a group of missionaries went to South America and began trying to convert a tribe. Mind you, the tribe was happy in their ways- they were peaceful, they're only methods of fighting was beating on a drum. They were nonviolent, they didn't hurt anyone, they minded their own business and just because they believed in multiple gods these f*cking missionaries took it upon themselves to single-handedly "save" those "infidels". Of course, when the missionaries got there, then real violence start to manifest itself, the tribespeople were unhappy...Why couldn't they have just left them alone?! Believe what you want, but don't try to change other people just because they don't have the same beliefs as you! Augh! I'm probably the slightest bit embittered by the fact I've had far too many people try to convert me because somehow they are absolutely right in their belief and everybody else is wrong and must be corrected. It drives me crazy...let people live their own lives, you don't need to change them, no matter what you think about their religion. YES, educate them, but don't ENFORCE it on them. Roar.

[dvmarie]

While I generally don't mind other religions, there is one practice that pisses me off- MISSIONARIES.

I have unlimited tolerance with all religions; however, I am also uncomfortable with missionaries (particularly the kind that knock on my door). I feel bad not wanting to talk with them, but the few times I did I ended up getting very frustrated (.....if you don't believe in what I'm sharing - then, sorry to say, you will go to hell). I also am really uncomfortable with the group that puts reading materials in your hands - then asks for a donation. In general I tend to just hide from these people.